372xp starting issues

[angelo c]

BTW thanks to both of you for tuning in, I don't get many chances to play with small engines since I semi retired here and to be honest I never had nor needed a chainsaw since I left Indiana and joined the corps back in 85.

Many of us started that way. (never had nor needed a chainsaw). then one day you wake up with 30 saws, two splitters, 2 dump trucks....(and un happy wives) ect
we'll get you on the path back. fixing saws online is like crossword puzzles to us ol farts



BTW thanks for guarding our "six"....

 

[ken morgan]

Many of us started that way. (never had nor needed a chainsaw). then one day you wake up with 30 saws, two splitters, 2 dump trucks....(and un happy wives) ect
we'll get you on the path back. fixing saws online is like crossword puzzles to us ol farts



BTW thanks for guarding our "six"....

Everybody does their part in some small fashion, thats the way I look at it, when we stop caring bout America she will fall...as long as some of us care, she will be alright.

Funny I bought a cabin on the NW side of mount Fuji...the prices are depressed their because of the shrinking population, and fears of an eruption (hogwash)

so I got a nice little cabin up there for the weekends. first thing I did was get a poulan chainsaw from the PX so I could clear the property...then came the dumbass idea to get a woodstove as it gets cold there in the winter....yeah splitting wood did not agree with my back so I made a logsplitter from an old backhoe ram and some other parts i scrounged from the local boneyards and the problems just keep growing. Found a place to cut firewood for free, as long as I take everything I cut including the leafy part, which means winter cutting is best as no leaves to deal with..this led to needing a bigger chainsaw than the 40cc POS I got from the PX and now you have my background in a nutshell....can't stop now the wife would laugh at me and win

 

[ken morgan]

this is me loading one of the pieces from a Japanese Oak we got to cut, I had to use my truck the next time as the van just couldn't handle the weight of loading like this

 

[angelo c]

View attachment 520981 this is me loading one of the pieces from a Japanese Oak we got to cut, I had to use my truck the next time as the van just couldn't handle the weight of loading like this

yup....sorry to inform you but you got the "bug"....."flu"....or "CAD" as we call it here...



"Chainsaw Addiction Disease"

 

[ken morgan]

right after cleaning the spark plug and blowing compressed air into the plug hole if you have an air compressor
put back the plug in and try starting the saw and see if it starts or at least give a faint firing symptom
if it doesnt, you need to take the carb apart and see whats the issue
could be lotsa things, diapraghms, metering needle and etc
also you need to check if the ignition is giving enough spark, though i wouldn't rule out that possibilty
but this would be less likely

pull the plug and drop a thimble full of fuel down the top of piston and see if it will hit.

if not pull the muffler and report back.

I put about 5 or 6cc'c (1/4~1/2 thimble?) in through the plug and reinserted plug. Nothing not even a fart or a burp. compression seems fine. pulled the muffler and looked in the cylinder and no scoring, looks brand new. also I stripped the covers off and the cylinder is definitely brand new but probably not a OEM i would guess. The ebay seller I bought it from specializes in rebuilding f'ed up saws using aftermarket parts the coil looks brand new, carb looks brand new,

the muffler had a little oil gas mix in it so while not ruling it out, I would guess the carb is OK it is a OEM walbro, original to this saw or a replacement I do not know.

the way it died and the fact that I get nothing even when putting gas in the cylinder through the plug hole makes me think maybe the coil is the culprit. I mean it just died as soon as I lifted it out of the cut, not a petering out like fuel starvation, but just like I had switched the switch off.

what do you think the possibility that the coil is an aftermarket and just a POS? any ideas on where the part#'s would be so I can cross reference to see if its an oem or something else?

I do not know about Saw's, but in general I have not had much luck in chinese ebay coils on anything else. Matter of fact I recently had one bad issue on a B&S 8hp I fixed up for my log splitter, I put a chinese coil on and no bueno...ended up ordering a OEM B&S coil and it fired right up.

 

[Robin Wood]

now it sounds alot like weak spark, off spark timing or maybe no spark at all ?
i can suggest alot things but if you can find another coil to test that would save you from the misery and pretty much tell whats wrong

 

[angelo c]

I put about 5 or 6cc'c (1/4~1/2 thimble?) in through the plug and reinserted plug. Nothing not even a fart or a burp. compression seems fine. pulled the muffler and looked in the cylinder and no scoring, looks brand new. also I stripped the covers off and the cylinder is definitely brand new but probably not a OEM i would guess. The ebay seller I bought it from specializes in rebuilding f'ed up saws using aftermarket parts the coil looks brand new, carb looks brand new,

the muffler had a little oil gas mix in it so while not ruling it out, I would guess the carb is OK it is a OEM walbro, original to this saw or a replacement I do not know.

the way it died and the fact that I get nothing even when putting gas in the cylinder through the plug hole makes me think maybe the coil is the culprit. I mean it just died as soon as I lifted it out of the cut, not a petering out like fuel starvation, but just like I had switched the switch off.

what do you think the possibility that the coil is an aftermarket and just a POS? any ideas on where the part#'s would be so I can cross reference to see if its an oem or something else?

I do not know about Saw's, but in general I have not had much luck in chinese ebay coils on anything else. Matter of fact I recently had one bad issue on a B&S 8hp I fixed up for my log splitter, I put a chinese coil on and no bueno...ended up ordering a OEM B&S coil and it fired right up.

OK,
Lets try one more cheap trick before we pull the muffler.

take the spark plug out and put a blanket or towel down under the saw as you turn the saw upside down. YES upside down.
hold it and pull the starter cord while upside down and try to get anything( fuel) out of bottom of case. pull it about 10-15 times and see if you get anything.

the towels or blanket should be clean....or not stained enough for you to see new stains or spots .
this won't make any noise as there is no spark w/o plug installed.

 

[Robin Wood]

OK,
Lets try one more cheap trick before we pull the muffler.

take the spark plug out and put a blanket or towel down under the saw as you turn the saw upside down. YES upside down.
hold it and pull the starter cord while upside down and try to get anything( fuel) out of bottom of case. pull it about 10-15 times and see if you get anything.

the towels or blanket should be clean....or not stained enough for you to see new stains or spots .
this won't make any noise as there is no spark w/o plug installed.

interesting, is this to make sure there is no excessive fuel/oil in the crank bottom ?
even then it should at least give a faint hint of life when OP tried to start that many times
check the ground wire, pull the on/off toggle and try restarting while your're at it

 

[ken morgan]

OK,
Lets try one more cheap trick before we pull the muffler.

take the spark plug out and put a blanket or towel down under the saw as you turn the saw upside down. YES upside down.
hold it and pull the starter cord while upside down and try to get anything( fuel) out of bottom of case. pull it about 10-15 times and see if you get anything.

the towels or blanket should be clean....or not stained enough for you to see new stains or spots .
this won't make any noise as there is no spark w/o plug installed.

OK already pulled the muffler earlier, 0 scoring on piston and opposite side from exhaust port. seller listed saw as new piston and cyclinder with caber rings.

I will go to shop and flip it and crank it a bit. Would 10~20 cranks be enough to get anything out of the crankcase?

 

[angelo c]

interesting, is this to make sure there is no excessive fuel/oil in the crank bottom ?
even then it should at least give a faint hint of life when OP tried to start that many times
check the ground wire, pull the on/off toggle and try restarting while your're at it

yes, Ive had saws so filled up with fuel in the case the piston would not cycle down. (Thought for sure the saw was locked up.)
If there is so much case fluid adding more to the piston top will not allow the saw to hit.
usually just removing the plug and pulling 10-20 times will remove "normal" flooding amounts.

its happened to me so I have it on my "pre-flight" checklist...also make sure you actually have a "checklist" so you don't miss the less obvious fault while you are chasing the one "obvious" ones.

 

[angelo c]

OK already pulled the muffler earlier, 0 scoring on piston and opposite side from exhaust port. seller listed saw as new piston and cyclinder with caber rings.

I will go to shop and flip it and crank it a bit. Would 10~20 cranks be enough to get anything out of the crankcase?

yes.


just because the previous builder "rebuilt" the saw....doesn't mean he removed the original reason for the saws failure to begin with....lots of guys just put a new top end on and call it done with out finding the root failure cause.

next we're looking at your flywheel key ....so remove the starter cover and take a close look at the flywheel keyway to see if it moved or sheared off.
check the flywheel to coil "gap" with a business card too.

 

[ken morgan]

 

[ken morgan]

I guess this was to see if the crankcase itself was flooded for some reason? crankcase was split by rebuilder and has a new gasket I would guess it was to check bearings. I will pull starter cover off to check to see if the flywheel key was sheared and has shifted.

checked gap on coil with a wire feeler gauge was .015" not sure of the specs for this engine but it eyeballs OK compared to all small 4 strokes I have done.

 

[angelo c]

View attachment 521128

so there WAS fuel in the case then ?
ok, make sure the case is empty and dry. (overnight with plug removed and upside down on towel again after a few more pulls, then let it sit over night).
then try the thimble of fuel thing again tomorrow. just for chits and grins. we need to confirm spark next and compression.


forget about what the "last guy" did, told you, said he did....ect
its "your" saw now....we gonna fix it dat way too.

what level of tools do you have available to you ? Borrow from friends ?

T27- compression tester- spark plug light ?

 

[angelo c]

I guess this was to see if the crankcase itself was flooded for some reason? crankcase was split by rebuilder and has a new gasket I would guess it was to check bearings. I will pull starter cover off to check to see if the flywheel key was sheared and has shifted.

checked gap on coil with a wire feeler gauge was .015" not sure of the specs for this engine but it eyeballs OK compared to all small 4 strokes I have done.

the stihl gapping tool says ".2mm"
usually a cheap test is .010 or a business card thickness.

 

[ken morgan]

Update,

sorry I forgot to mention that before turning it upside down and cranking it I emptied the fuel tank./

pulled starter cover and removed the flywheel nut & washer. I could see the keyway groove on the crank, but could not see a corresponding groove anywhere on the flywheel. I guess I would need to pull the flywheel to find it and if necessary re-index it. I do not have a gear puller that small in my tools so it will have to wait till tomorrow daylight to mess with.

I then unhooked the ground kill switch lead just in case it or the switch was shorted, reassembled the pull rope cover, refilled with clean fresh gas and attempted to start it again. This time while cranking w/choke on I saw a mist come out of the area by the muffler, or possibly the decomp valve and it smelled slightly of fuel. I am guessing spark is too weak, or flywheel is off kilter.

I just ordered an OEM ignition coil from ebay, it is fairly obvious to me after examining the current coil it is a cheap no name brand, no markings probably from china, and **** it I will just change it anyway. it will take a week or two to arrive so that another weekend with no large saw, only the little poulan.

which reminds me, I watched a video last night on you tube of a person doing a spark test on a poulan PP5020a. he took a used but known good plug and bent it out till its gap was 1/8" or .125 and it was jumping the gap well enough that his camera could see it in the video.....mine I can barely see in my shop..gotta squint so I am now betting on spark issue.

I will pull the flywheel tommorrow and check to see if the sheer key has sheared and if it has I will fix that also.

do these saws have a set of points and condenser under the flywheel like old B&S engines? If they do I should probably order a new set of those also.

 

[ken morgan]

so there WAS fuel in the case then ?
ok, make sure the case is empty and dry. (overnight with plug removed and upside down on towel again after a few more pulls, then let it sit over night).
then try the thimble of fuel thing again tomorrow. just for chits and grins. we need to confirm spark next and compression.


forget about what the "last guy" did, told you, said he did....ect
its "your" saw now....we gonna fix it dat way too.

what level of tools do you have available to you ? Borrow from friends ?

T27- compression tester- spark plug light ?

Laugh away at this one...I have been building time attack cars (including custom tube frames and engines/suspensions) since I first got over here in 86 usually Mazda rotaries or subarus flat fours (i love strange engines) so I actually have a complete shop to include tig welder, sandblast cabinet, impacts, drill press blah blah blah.

I have just never messed with a 2 stroke engine before. I checked the spark before I came on the forum with this question, but was not sure how much I should see (probably more than I am seeing) perfect example I would never of thought of flipping the case to drain it if it was flooded, though it makes perfect sense as the air fuel/oil mix goes through the crankcase to lube the bearings and if the carb ahs a bad needle valve (do these ones have a needle valve?) it would keep poring fuel in until the case was full.

so I really appreciate you two following this and giving suggestions, as I am sure with a little guidance from you two we can figure this out.

It just pisses me off because this was exactly what I was trying to avoid I have two many time consuming things and I bought this saw as it was "pro level" and rebuilt. well rebuilders can always make mistakes, but I was hoping that what I paid for it would alleviate that concern and that I would not have to fark with it for a while. I considered buying a brand new one, but the fact that they have a flashable ecu worried me as getting service over here would be impossible, even though I now know from the forum that they do have dealers over here, I have since found out they only import certain models and theses are slightly modded so that it is obvious that they are the japan versions, and they do not service or sell parts for privately imported items.

 

[ken morgan]

same goes for still and echo, they import them but they are different specifically for japan so that anybody who imports their own are on their own.

here is the price list for husky, just take the number and divide by 100 to get the approximate dollar price.....A 560XP is 2200 USD!

 

[angelo c]

Next time you wanna buy new there are a few guys that will ship anywhere.

but for now, Knowing you have a shop full of experience( just not 2 stroke) will make this easy.
so far, we need to check the spark and timing of the saw( spark- bright blue against the block). just like any small 4 stroker.
timing- by confirming the flywheel hasn't "skipped a tooth" or sheared the keyway and moved the timing out of sink.
a cheap light tester for spark does wonders as well. (if yer eyes is as bad as mine)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121087556692

 

[ken morgan]

Next time you wanna buy new there are a few guys that will ship anywhere.

but for now, Knowing you have a shop full of experience( just not 2 stroke) will make this easy.
so far, we need to check the spark and timing of the saw( spark- bright blue against the block). just like any small 4 stroker.
timing- by confirming the flywheel hasn't "skipped a tooth" or sheared the keyway and moved the timing out of sink.
a cheap light tester for spark does wonders as well. (if yer eyes is as bad as mine)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121087556692

I am going to take one of my spare plugs and extra wide gap it and try it tommorrow, but its bed time here and I need to read some bed time stories in english to my little girls other wise they will never learn how to speak it