460 Clone oil pump bolt up issue

[TheAMMIXman]

Anyone have issues here clone or OeM 460?

The oil pump appears to bolt up flat but not flush. There is a gap behind it all the way around, and the rubber tubing sealing the output doesn’t even touch.

I already recessed the seal they installed at whatever factory a little below the lip it sits in instead of the hair above they had it, I could see where the metal gear part from the pump was touching the metal part of the seal leaving marks from all the bolt on bolt off. Not sure what else I could try.

For over an hour I took the pump off, put it back on, with, and without the worm gear like 19 bagillion times(there is now wear marks under where the heads of the screws sit) and I just know it’s not right. It can’t be. It’ll piss oil every were like that and who knows what else would get tore up. I even tired some “high volume” Proline brand pump I had brand new in a bag, same thing. Exactly the same. I highly doubt it’s a miss machined case but it could be.

I must be missing something. Whose seen this?

Thanks in advance
Bruce

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

There’s a chance that the PTO bearing is not properly indexed. If it’s protruding too far out, mounting the oil pump without the worm gear hitting the seal area isn’t possible. It could also cause issues that you describe and a problem with the e clip holding the drive system on.

Few things to try-
1. Make sure your pump is correct for the 460. Post a pic.
2. Make sure the hose isn’t pushed too far into the case and/or that hole is the correct size.
3. Take a couple pics of the oil pump, bearing, etc. before we suggest a drastic fix or two.

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

Did you install the bearings?

 

[Ozhoo]

Here's the blurb from the manual

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Did you install the bearings?

Unfortunately I did not install the bearings. Case half’s came with the bearings and seals installed.

I wasn’t nearly as concerned for the hose as the pump fitting for it is tapered, it was that square o ring that sits in the case that doesn’t appear to touch the pump at all.

I do have the manual but it just say put the pump in basically and that’s it. No torque specs or anything.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Here's the blurb from the manual
View attachment 788205

I can see by your posted illustrations where by them pre installing the bearings it could be in to far causing my exact issue. I’m gonna have to pull the cylinder back off and everything if that’s it. Hopefully I wouldn’t have to split the case half’s.

 

[Ozhoo]

I just shot these... a FT case w/ the bearing setting at the correct depth

 

[Ozhoo]

I can see by your posted illustrations where by them pre installing the bearings it could be in to far causing my exact issue. I’m gonna have to pull the cylinder back off and everything if that’s it. Hopefully I wouldn’t have to split the case half’s.

I would use a socket sized to the outside of the bearing and give it a little tappy tap tap. You don't need to go much. Go too far and you'll be splitting the case.

 

[Ozhoo]

I can swap you a case if need be but you should be able to tap it down.

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

If your bearing is too far out, then you can tap it back carefully like Ozhoo said. Not ideal, but it’s possible.

 

[Ozhoo]

If your bearing is too far out, then you can tap it back carefully like Ozhoo said. Not ideal, but it’s possible.

Zackly, not the smartest thing to do but just one of the many hacks when working with high quality aftermarket parts.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Ozhoo, BuckthornBonnie, thank you both so very much. Pretty sure we got it narrowed down to the only possibility.

I have a small hydraulic press here, hopefully I can bump it just enough, or yep, I’ll be splitting the case if it goes to far in. Went back and forth with the crank several times getting it as centered as I could, hopefully I can get that to stay center while I move the bearing. I wonder if I should pull the cylinder so I can watch the inside too or just mark the far side seal with a sharpie or tape and make sure the crank don’t move. Probably opt for the ladder.

Now I put that seal in too far for no good reason. That’ll be ok right?

Thanks again guys

Bruce

 

[L34]

I would pull the jug and wedge a block of wood between the counter weights when trying to push the bearing in.

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

You could also use a junk pump and a firm pressing surface (sockets, pipe, washers) to push the bearing back exactly to where it needs to be. Lakeside used to do this when seating bearings. Heat is your friend, but being assembled already makes it tricky.

Again, if this is indeed the issue (which I think it is going off of your posts).

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

The seal on that side has some space in the bearing recess. However, it’s still possible to go too deep. I don’t think you are, though. Take another look after you settle things. AM seals are usually ok, if you can believe it. I’ve used a lot of them.

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

When centering the crank with a punch or poly/brass hammer, have the oil pump installed. There’s a chance the bearing slipped a whisker when you were centering.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

When centering the crank with a punch or poly/brass hammer, have the oil pump installed. There’s a chance the bearing slipped a whisker when you were centering.

Ahhhh. Well that does make perfect sense. I’ll have to get it back up on the junk pump. Lol. I assume you mean the press.

As for the seal I have another here but we know how that goes, take this one out, screw up the last one I got going in and have to order another and wait.

Thanks again. I was getting overly frustrated and glad I walked away and asked for help. I should have seen this but did not.

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

Some guys use a punch or poly hammer to center and relieve stress on the bearings after assembly. I use a poly hammer when needed and go easy.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Thank you to all who replied. It was surely the bearing. Oil pump to be installed momentarily. Only stopped to verify that ring I just exposed on the crankshaft is suppose to be there now. It’s in Ozhoo’s photo, I assume I should have been able to see that grove the whole time. A clear indicator for me now.

I did pull the jug so I could make the inner race of the bearing the same distance from the crank on each side and just to see everything happening. Held the crank from moving with a piece of wood under it while pressing the bearing on the opposite side further in.

Posting some updates photos from this AM, quality is less than yesterday my outward facing camera is inop and the wife is still sleeping.

Thanks again guys. Much appreciated. Very much.

Bruce