Anybody sharpening and setting their own bandsaw blades?

[Mahindra123]

I have an inventory of around 400 blades that were resharpened under Woodmizer's "Resharp Program". They do a nice job reconditioning and resharpening. Any blade that can't be reconditioned is tossed and they replace with a new blade at a reduced cost. I am at a very pleasant point in my life where I now have the time and fewer blades to sharpen.

I bought along with my mill, their sharpener and setter but barely used it when I was doing commercial sawing because I wasn't willing to spend another 4 hours working on the blades after 10 hours of sawing. When a person sharpens the teeth, the blade is never flipped for the left or right tooth. Even with light passes in sharpening, there is always an edge left on the outside edge after the sharpener does it's job. When I picked up my mill at the factory, they trained you specifically on every item you purchased. For this deposit, they recommended using a wood stick on that side of the blade to knock it off. I still get some deposit left over and no darn wood stick will touch it! Anyone else noticed this and if so, what do you do?

On this site is the 1st time in my life I ever heard of "blade cupping" and fixing it with a roller setup. I am familiar with Woodmizer, Timberwolf blades and Simmon's and they don't mention it either as far as my last check. These companies are in the business of making their customers happy and keep coming back for more. Don't you think if they could sell another accessory that they would? I put a straight edge across my blades that had 4 resharps on them, and with a light on the backside of that blade, I saw NO light sneaking thru. Someone or something is cowdung somewhere!

Thanks

 

[Typhoon]

Mahindra, I sharpen and set my own blades, as well as several other sawyer's blades. The tiny metal burrs that are left on the side of the teeth after sharpening, I remove them with a small carbide metal block. It came with my sharpener. The sharpener I have is the Cook's Cat Claw, and I use the Cook's setter as well. I rarely remove these burrs, unless I have big burrs from having to take a lot of metal off. Cooks also sells a blade roller that flattens your bandsaw blade, which I assume is the roller that you are talking about. I personally do not have a blade roller.. I do fine without one. However, the guys at Cooks know what they are doing when it comes to bandsaw blades. I have had some blades that after 4 or 5 sharpening cycles, will start to dive or rise in the cut, causing wavy cuts. I know that they are set perfectly and sharpened correctly.. so my suspicion is that the roller would fix this problem. I just throw the blades away at that point, but I imagine that if I had the roller, I could probably get a few more cycles out of those blades. Again, to me the roller is overkill, I get 6 or 7 sharpening cycles out of my blades before they start to cut badly, and that's good enough for me. Hope this helps you some.. :msp_smile:

 

[hamish]

Rollin Bands

Clean, set, sharpen, set, cut and repeat.


My own view it that for smaller bands ie less than 1 1/2" rolling ishould normally not be required over there lifespan.
When i worked at a mill the "big" band did ger rolled in the blade shop regularily, I do not have experience wih respect to the narrow bands, nor have I had to ........as yet, but the day may come where I need to.
So stay abreast of different things for the day you run into some issues you cant seem to resolve and can did back and go ".......hey this is an 80% solution to my problem" and learn from there.

Kevin AKA the Deeker will jump on soon and from reading his posts gave me new insight for which I have stored away in my head.

 

[Mahindra123]

Typhoon - that is the roller I was referring to and my little test with the straight edge and light perhaps was archaic in this world of technology. Added to that, hamish probably had a good point in that with a blade of 1 1/2" or less, and considering the blades aren't made from just plain steel, actually cupping a blade so narrow I can't fathom. I'm sure that the bandsaw wheels and their friction material such as "v" belts, might be the culprit? I have no idea what they use on a 6" blade except huge wheels that give it more surface contact, and add more tension to the blade. I sure as heck have never tossed out a blade with two more runs left in it. I've always found that a tooth or two hit something and resetting the blade fixed it. I run 'em till they snap!

Timberwolf at my request, sent out a free blade to try. They appear to be rewriting the books on blade, blade tension, replacing the original design belts with wider and flat bands around the wheels. As far as blade tension, they want theirs to run close to 1000psi on the hydraulic tensioner. I tried my sample blade without changing the belt but at their recommended tension. Guys, that is one great blade! Less tension means longer blade life and the end product is less costs. I admit, I usually never shop around aftermarket but I'm quickly learning that unless you look and try different manufactures, I'm the ultimate loser in the end!

Enjoy!

 

[chaikwa]

Timberwolf at my request, sent out a free blade to try. They appear to be rewriting the books on blade, blade tension, replacing the original design belts with wider and flat bands around the wheels. As far as blade tension, they want theirs to run close to 1000psi on the hydraulic tensioner. I tried my sample blade without changing the belt but at their recommended tension. Guys, that is one great blade! Less tension means longer blade life and the end product is less costs. I admit, I usually never shop around aftermarket but I'm quickly learning that unless you look and try different manufactures, I'm the ultimate loser in the end!

My experience with Timberwolf was quite a bit opposite of yours. GREAT people, very willing to explain things in detail. But if I had followed their advice, I'd have no fewer than 4 sets of blades, all different, for one log! One to open it thru the bark, one to saw lumber when the inner tension of the log is in an upward thrust direction, one to... well, you get the picture. I don't even remember all they told me, tho I admit it made sense when they were explaining it. There was a whole 'nuther set of blades for soft-hardwoods and yet another set of soft softwoods. Then there were sets for older logs that would be drier, sets for green logs. I didn't know they MADE this many blades!

I still ended up buying a few different blades from them but by the time I got them I couldn't remember which ones I was supposed to use for what kind of wood, and for what position it was in on my mill. They had also included an information sheet with the blades that I supposed were to reiterate what they had told me on the phone. While I admit I couldn't remember all they told me, I swear what the info sheet contradicted what I thought I was remembering! Anyway, I too set their new blades at the recommended 1000 psi of blade tension and proceeded to created the waviest, curvy lumber I have ever produced! I gradually increased the blade tension back to what I normally run it at and the wavy curvy lumber disappeared. The blades sawed alright after the tension adjustment, but I didn't see that they lasted any longer than what I had been using, (Lenox).

I recently tried a Munksforsager (sp?) blade. It too cut 'OK', but nothing phenominal, and it didn't keep it's edge any better either. They were surprisingly cheaper than the Lenox blades however. The one thing I do NOT like about the Monks blade is that the gullet is not as deep as most other blades I've used. The other thing that surprised me was that right out of the box, this blades' set was all over the place. Some teeth at 10 degrees, others at 20 and all variations in between.

Just a few observations I thought y'all might be interested in.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I bought my first band mill in 1996, i'm on my second mill now.

I figured out LONG time ago that i wasn't going to have one band for this and another band for that! I also figured out that i wasn't going to be changeing tension all the time either, so i use MAX tension all the time. I buy bands that will "do it all" for me, and i saw everything that comes my way. Although i've tried a few different bands, i've settled on "Norwood" bands, and i'm happy with my choise.

I resharp/set them myself and i use them until they no longer will cut good lumber... To this day i've NOT broken even one band! I believe that's because i make sure to sharpen the whole tooth/gullet... At some point the band won't cut right no matter what i do, and Deeker says that's when they should be "rolled", but i haven't tried it.

After 8 to 10 sharpenings, i recycle them for steel...

Rob

 

[chaikwa]

I bought my first band mill in 1996, i'm on my second mill now.

I figured out LONG time ago that i wasn't going to have one band for this and another band for that! I also figured out that i wasn't going to be changeing tension all the time either, so i use MAX tension all the time. I buy bands that will "do it all" for me, and i saw everything that comes my way. Although i've tried a few different bands, i've settled on "Norwood" bands, and i'm happy with my choise.

I resharp/set them myself and i use them until they no longer will cut good lumber... To this day i've NOT broken even one band! I believe that's because i make sure to sharpen the whole tooth/gullet... At some point the band won't cut right no matter what i do, and Deeker says that's when they should be "rolled", but i haven't tried it.

After 8 to 10 sharpenings, i recycle them for steel...

Rob

Pretty much the same here Rob. I DO like to mess around with new blades from time to time just to see if there's any differences. But I set and sharpen my own blades on my own self-built sharpener and setter, and the first thing I do to a new blade before I even put it in service is check the set. If they can't even get all the teeth close, right out of the box, I know I won't be buying that brand ever again.

 

[hamish]

Its all boils down to what you prefer to cut with, yes Norwood bands are great however the cost is extremely high for me, and it becomes hard to justify $39.80 versus $22.30 for a band delivered and taxes in to me. So I choose to try different bands at times, to see which ones I truly want to stick with for good. Sharpening/setting your own gives you so much more flexability and compensates for different manufactures blade geometry. To try different bands you cant just slap one on, cut a bit then make your mind up, you need to run it the same as your current band, set, sharpen it run it again etc...before you can even begin make up your mind.

If I had 400 WM bands at my disposal.......well I can already tell you I would be using the Woodmizers, and I have never even tried a Woodmizer band yet!

 

[4x4American]

Here's another thread I reckon I'll exhume...

What have yawl figured out since?

I'm looking into getting a sharpener/setter, my TK dealer even told me that the TK sharpener/setter is junk. He sells another brand that he swears his 25 years of sawing by. I can't remember the name or the price. But, I just got some thing from Cook's, and their Cat Claw has a special- buy any Cat Claw Sharpener and get 10 free Cook's Super Sharp or Xcel blades. Sound good? When I hear back from my TK guy about the sharpener he's got I'll post it and see if yawl have any thoughts on it.

 

[Dave Boyt]

I have had my bands professionally sharpened for the last 10 years or so, but recently got a Norwood sharpener & setter. Blade performance is as good or better than what I had before (and this fellow has an excellent reputation among area sawyers). They cut better and stay sharp longer than new blades out of the box, and now I don't wait so long to put on a fresh blade or worry whether a batch of blades is going to be ready before I need them. If a blade won't cut right, no matter what, it would be interesting to put a straight edge across it to see if it is cupped. As I understand it, steel rims tend to cup the blade more than those with a belt.

 

[rwthom279]

4x4 - There is a STEEp learning curve when sharpening blades... just to warn you. Yes, it takes practice, and you will screw some blades up... guaranteed. For someone starting out, I'll say this, there is more to blade maintenance than just throwing it in a sharpener and setter and back to wood. I would advise you to fine a blade profile/hook angle that works and stick with it... keep it simple and you'll have less gray hairs. Keeping the stone properly dressed to match the blade is of the upmost importance. Good luck with whatever equipment you decide purchase. Be patient and learn the function of the equipment first. Like any piece of equipment, you'll eventually get the "feel" for it.

Different blades, require different cams to PROPERLY maintain the original tooth profile. Yes, you can grind-n-hack a blade to match the cam you have. But you have to be careful with any sharpener that does not use coolant during the sharpening process. Blades are tool steel and need to be treated as such. Over heat the tooth and you change the temper, hence, it will dull quicker. You'll need to be diligent and take LIGHT passes when sharpening. Takes longer, but your blades will "Thank You".

Dave, I do not agree that steel wheel induce curvature into the blade. Curvature happens naturally as the blade passes around the bandwheel. Some brands of blades are worse about it than others. Shoot, I've had to roll new blades right out of the box, wouldn't cut straight through running water!! Blades that have been abused, example: run past being dull, popped off backwards, forced to cut faster than capable, etc. can also have an effect on the flatness of the blade body. Manufacturing processes can also contribute to curvature. Quality Control among many blade manufacturers/retailers has gone down hill in the past couple years. Not uncommon for a sawyer to ship me blades (new/ran once) and several just wouldn't cut right. Chances are, the blade body isn't flat. None of my re-sharping customers run steel wheels.

Edit: BTW, steel wheels actually IMPROVE blade performance and longetivity. A group of pro- sawyers PROVED to WM in hopes of them manufacturing steel wheels for the LT70. WM wouldn't offer the option, so they went elsewhere.

 

[Can8ianTimber]

I have run a Timberking for 4 years now and I gave up on resharps all together. I have a woodmizer dealer about 30 min away so I have taken them bands to sharpen several times but the quality cut is so much lower than a brand new band. It is very expensive but I only run brand new woodmizer bands 1.25", 4 deg unless I am cutting cheap softwoods. I generally cut hardwood logs greater than 24" Diameter so I need to have a blade that is very sharp. I have been hoping to find a system that will work to sharpen my 3" woodmizer bands and my 1.25" woodmizer bands but I don't want to dump a bunch of money into a big sharpener and setter just to find disappointing results.

Is there anyone out there that would say you can get your second use as sharp as the first use on your bands?

 

[rwthom279]

Can8ian Timber,

"Is there anyone out there that would say you can get your second use as sharp as the first use on your bands?"

A blade that has been PROPERLY re-sharpened and set will outperform a new blade, hands down. Once re-sharpened, the blade body should be flat, tooth set consistent (my tolerance is +/- 0.002 tooth to tooth & side to side) and the cutting edge of the tooth will be square to the blade body as well. New blades commonly have inconsistencies in set: industry std. is supposed to be +/- 0.004 tooth to tooth.

Of the blades I maintain for other sawyers, I would estimate 60% of most teeth (certain brands) hit this range.... there are a couple brands that consistently exceed these tolerances, by far. About the same average for flatness too.

 

[Can8ianTimber]

So that confirms my suspicion that it is a poor job of sharpening by the resharp guys. A friend of mine just got the fancy new woodmizer grinder for over $5k but he uses a different stone than me. I am thinking of buying the stone for the 4 deg profile that I use and having him give my bands a try.

 

[rwthom279]

Here are CBN wheels manufactured to fit WM sharpeners: http://www.rixsaws.com/index.html

The quality and performance FAR exceed the WM CBN wheels... and are significantly cheaper. Nice to use a product where price is not a reflection on the quality.

 

[Can8ianTimber]

That is crazy. WM wants over $400 for their 7deg turbo profile and it is $145 on that site. You just saved me some $, thanks

 

[rwthom279]

Those wheels are 5" dia., so you better double check what your buddy's sharpener takes.

 

[4x4American]

thanks for all the feedback yawl...can anyone shed some light on what to look for to know when it's time to change a band? do you look for finer sawdust...do you feel its going slower than before...do you see if its cutting crooked when you're in the cut or can you only tell that after the cut has been made?

 

[hamish]

A dull band will cut slower, sawdust ejection will lessen leaving more sawdust on the boards, and the band will rise or fall more easily with every deviation in the consistency of the log. You will hear everything, and after awhile will be able to tell what is happening solely by the sound of what is taking place.

 

[4x4American]

awesome, thanks for the advice