Ban on wood-fired boilers-Its started.

[MS-310]

I'm not the one baning out door wood boilers! Some one must belive there Smokey and less efficient if there baning them as we speak. There has been a lot of testing of out door wood boilers and in turn there getting the boot in a lot of states. Your asking the wrong guy your questions. I would contact these states that have done test and with there test they feel out door wood boilers are not worthy to be in there area. BTW I got X3 the wood from where i was looking at buying a out door wood boiler. It was there statement of how much wood i would use to heat my house. Funny thing is all the people that say that out door wood boilers are efficient but have NO data or documents , links , proof or test to show. Again , dont blame me ........... talk to the states that have done test and are giving them the boot.

There is no state that has baned OWB, No date or truth so are you saying im lieing about my 4 to 5 cords a year???
I know im venting at you and I should stop at this point. I could go on forever yelling and so on and you will still not beleave me on this. OWB took alot of sales away from the Indoor stoves, so no wonder why you see this on the sites promoting indoor wood stoves, its really all about bashing the OWB becuz they really make indoor stoves worthless.
And thanks for tell me all of what I wanted to know

 

[laynes69]

I dont have an outdoor wood burner. But if its saving people money and keeping them warm thats great. I have thought of getting one, but there a little steep for us right now. If the firebox wasnt surrounded my water it would be easier to get a cleaner burn. Theres payoffs of either system. Indoor or outdoor.

 

[bwalker]

These bans can be got around by placing the boiler inside a building such as a pole barn. I have seen people do this. Then the only why they can ban them is ban all word burning.

 

[JeffHK454]

I believe Indianapolis just baned outdoor boilers in the last 2 months and once that ban was successful a large number of Indiana countys purposed similar ordinances. It starts in the urban areas and spreads to even the most rural corners of the state. The ban would require the current offenders to make improvements or face fines and also denied new wood boiler permits to be granted. The funny part is that the county that the city of Indianapolis is in had 2 known wood boiler users!

This was a quote from a friend that lives in Brookeville , a small "country" town in the south/eastern corner of Indiana, he paraphrased what he had read in a local farm report.

He was actually about a day away from buying a new WoodMaster to heat a house/shop combo but has backed off the purchase until he's more confident in the future of outdoor wood boiler.

I hope it's misinformation because it would just be the start of banning all wood burning .

 

[DanMan1]

OWB took alot of sales away from the Indoor stoves, so no wonder why you see this on the sites promoting indoor wood stoves, its really all about bashing the OWB becuz they really make indoor stoves worthless.

How do you figure they make indoor stoves worthless?

 

[Rspike]

How do you figure they make indoor stoves worthless?

He is just talking out his pie hole. The posted links were from state courts and such . His statements dont make any sense. Its not like i work for a indoor wood stove company. I have already posted links showing the ban of outdoor wood boilers and many people have stated that there have been ban's in there town's , states and such. I thought i would post the ban's as i have found them to help warn people that are about to throw down $5,000. - $30,000. on an outdoor wood boiler . Now that would bit the big one. Every one can do there own research , dont take my work for it thus i posted links of it happening. I know i did my research and am glad i did. There talking about it in my town and many otheres around already. ALSO, MS -310 already started a thread a wile back about the ban of wood stoves in towns around him. http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=33271 He also stated that he knows outdoor wood boilers smoke a lot and is a problem.

I know the smoke is a problem but i know they burn wood in the older days so whats the problem now.... I really thank you guys for your input

MS - 310 sells outdoor wood boilers so I'm sure he is going to be bias and defensive over something he make $$ on.

 

[DanMan1]

Some people don't understand the need for controlling the amount of unburned smoke. I think the best way is to envision if EVERYBODY changed to outdoor wood burners, then what? Imagain a whole town of 5 thousand houses with outdoor burners on one of those strange winter baromic pressure days when chimney smoke drops to the ground. This would obviously be a deadly situation. So I guess as long as too many don't buy them it's not a huge problem. Some towns may really have a problem with their appearence as much as pollution. You know how they want to tell you if you can build a sap house, or shed or whatever.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

He is just talking out his pie hole. His statements dont make any sense.

I like the part about only burning 4 cords and keeping his leaky houst at 76*



I mean, its possable, but only if the outside temps never go below 50*

 

[Rspike]

My house is 1800sqft house with hotwater heater kit on and no R-value any where, I keep my house at 76 deg all winter long and burn 5 full cords. .

I like the part about only burning 4 cords and keeping his leaky houst at 76*



I mean, its possable, but only if the outside temps never go below 50*

Its hard to beleive 76° all winter long on a 1,800 sf home with no insulation of any kind in the State of Michigan. If you do the math on hard wood of OAK @ per cords x the BTU value of oak it dont add up. The house would have to have less than 10% heat loss during the winter. With WITH insulation you get more than 10% heat loss. BTW RaisedByWolves......... I ordered that helko Vario - 2000 size A (the big one) based on your report in the other thread. As said before its to fine tune the pile as it comes into the house. We'll C how it does. Thanks for the tip on her. ALSO NOTE: he mentioned in another thread that he only burns 3 cords to heat his house. ------->

Smoke My @ss

They dont smoke that much only when they start up. Some people just dont under stand the idea. You are going to us about 4 to 6 cords of wood, it my be less or more but avg. is 4 to 6 cords. Mine burns about 3 cords of wood a year, my house is old but only 1800 sqft. (and thats all im heating). any more ??????
Jack

 

[hamradio]

I like wood boilers. One guy across the lake I live on has one (a couple people live on the lake). Not an issue. I want to weld one up from scrap to supplement the ground source heat pump I have. If I made one, it'd be combo wood/corn/waste oil.

 

[Rspike]

These bans can be got around by placing the boiler inside a building such as a pole barn. I have seen people do this. Then the only why they can ban them is ban all word burning.

Not the smartest thing to do there bwalker. The reason the EPA has not got a hold of outdoor wood boilers YET is because its not inside of a building. wood burning appliances with in a building are subject to epa standards of emissions. Again there not going to ban inside wood stoves because they meet EPA guide lines. EPA phase I and EPA phase II . The average outdoor wood boiler puts off 80.0 grams per hours of emissions (SMOKE), in order to put a outdoor wood boiler inside of a building it would have to meet stage II (phase II ) EPA laws of 6.0 grams per hour of emissions. ( yes thats 6.0 GPH not 60 GPH ) Most modern indoor wood stoves already exceed the EPA's 6.0 GPH ( like mine of 3.5 GPH ) So save your $$ from putting up a building for your OWB. Just trying to help ya out brother. :help:

 

[MS-310]

WOW?

This is sweet,
Im getting called a lier, Im glad Rspike knows ever thing about OWB and its kinda funny he has never ran one or used one? Im not knock the indoor stoves (I got one I do like it).
Im talking out my pie hole? Thanks for the info

 

[MS-310]

Not the smartest thing to do there bwalker. The only reason the EPA has not got a hold of outdoor wood boilers YET is because its not inside of a building. All wood burning appliances with in a building are subject to epa standards of emissions. Again there not going to ban inside wood stoves because they meet EPA guide lines. EPA phase I and EPA phase II . The average outdoor wood boiler puts off 80.0 grams per hours of emissions (SMOKE), in order to put a outdoor wood boiler inside of a building it would have to meet stage II (phase II ) EPA laws of 6.0 grams per hour of emissions. ( yes thats 6.0 GPH not 60 GPH ) Most modern indoor wood stoves already exceed the EPA's 6.0 GPH ( like mine of 3.5 GPH ) So save your $$ from putting up a building for your OWB. Just trying to help ya out brother. :help:

I would like to see that... So will you give me the site, Im going to talk to some people next thursday at a city meeting on "wood burning", that would be great paper to show them, Plus where is this site you are getting this info of OWB "emission", I would like to do my own test to really see if this is the truth, but you wouldnt beleave me if I told you any ways.

 

[MS-310]

Plus too,

Keep buying gas or elec for your hot water heater, its helping the camel jockys........................................................

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Yes, lets not support the Iranian electric sheiks and the middle-eastern natural gas consortium's.:bang:

BTW RaisedByWolves......... I ordered that helko Vario - 2000 size A (the big one) based on your report in the other thread. As said before its to fine tune the pile as it comes into the house. We'll C how it does. Thanks for the tip on her. ALSO NOTE: he mentioned in another thread that he only burns 3 cords to heat his house. ------->

Heh, 3 cords, 5 cords, it all looks the same when your eyes are teared up from being smoked like almonds.


Hope you like the Helko as much as I like mine!

 

[Rspike]

I would like to see that... So will you give me the site, Im going to talk to some people next thursday at a city meeting on "wood burning", that would be great paper to show them, Plus where is this site you are getting this info of OWB "emission", I would like to do my own test to really see if this is the truth, but you wouldnt beleave me if I told you any ways.

http://www.nescaum.org/documents/as...ers/gitlen-letter-to-nescaum-21april2006.pdf/
http://www.nescaum.org/documents/as...-05-owb-report_revised-june2006-appendix.pdf/
http://www.nescaum.org/documents/as...esponse-to-april-21-comments-on-owb-rept.pdf/
http://www.vtwoodsmoke.org/
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/200...r wood "
http://www.woodheat.org/technology/NYreport.htm
http://www.woodheat.org/technology/outboiler.htm
http://www.woodheat.org/technology/outrickperth.htm
http://www.woodheat.org/technology/outbobpen.htm
I think that would keep you busy for a wile. All you have to do is internet research. And "YES" i have run an out door wood boiler. I also have neighbors that have them. even tho one neighbor quit useing his because it took more wood to heat his house then his indoor wood stove. Thats kinda what happens when you go from a 74% efficient indoor stove to a 34% efficient outdoor wood boiler. It like any thing else ...... when you drop the efficiency it take more fuel .

 

[Rspike]

Plus too,

Keep buying gas or elec for your hot water heater, its helping the camel jockys........................................................

I do have a hot water heater that runs on natural gas. Again, when you do your research and get an item that has good efficinncy it take less fuel. My gas bill per month is around $30. Family of 5 and a dishwasher. Electric bill in the winter is around $65.oo . Summer is around $95.oo and $120.oo the two hottest months. 4 cords or less a year on wood. I dont have anything to hide. Is there any other information you need to make your case? It's not me against you MS-310 ......... its you against outdoor wood boilers and the towns and states that are baning them.

 

[DanMan1]

I would like to see that... So will you give me the site, Im going to talk to some people next thursday at a city meeting on "wood burning", that would be great paper to show them,

Let me see if I understand this correctly. You already own an outdoor boiler, and you want to bring printed articles that discuss issues and boiler problems....to your own city meeting? uhhhh?

 

[DanMan1]

I do have a hot water heater that runs on natural gas. Again, when you do your research and get an item that has good efficinncy it take less fuel. My gas bill per month is around $30. Family of 5 and a dishwasher. Electric bill in the winter is around $65.oo . Summer is around $95.oo and $120.oo the two hottest months. 4 cords or less a year on wood. I dont have anything to hide. Is there any other information you need to make your case? It's not me against you MS-310 ......... its you against outdoor wood boilers and the towns and states that are baning them.

I think you're taking him too seriously.

 

[Rspike]

I think you're taking him too seriously.

I post the information for everyone to read for them selves. MS-310 already knows. It lets others decide before putting BIG $$'s down. When you buy in indoor wood stove just like most appliances show reports and such and the efficiency of the item. outdoor wood boilers dont have such reports so states are doing the testing. Well there they are.........."the test results". I have asked many time all over the Internet for efficiency reports of OWB. I have called many OWB dealers asking for efficiency measurements and out put emissions and not one would give me any answers. WHY ? Because it wouldn't be wise to advertise there own product as 34% efficient and puts off 80 gph of emissions.