Ban on wood-fired boilers-Its started.
- Thread starter Rspike
- Start date
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Thats a lot of nice "yap" any #'s to support your information ? Yet? Again , here we go with the "I like to cut wood and dont mind burning 10 cords" and the "It doesn't bother me to go out side to load the stove" Just like any claims from OWB , A lot of dancing around the subject but not real information.
You mentioned "stack height" of a OWB ....... YES , that will help with smoke ,very little but will help. It will not help one bit with burning less wood.
If any owner of a OWB feels he dont have a problem burning 8-14 cords of wood and doing all the work to get this wood and also dont have a problem with neighbors or issues him self about smoke ........ then any information here is probably not going to do him any good. The only information to these owners is doing any good is "the ban of OWB has started" and listed in this thread are the reasons why.
Butch(OH) If you dont mind cutting extra wood for your OWB and going out side all the time in the winter to load it and smokes not a problem you are worried about ........then do it.
Butch(OH) You talk about chimney stack height and you showed pictures in the thread of your taller SMOKE STAINED stack. THANKS! Thats the pictures that needed to be seen.
Get back to us when you have some lab test Butch(OH). Showing your smoke stained pipe and telling us it dont smoke kinda looks like B.S. to me.
You mentioned "stack height" of a OWB ....... YES , that will help with smoke ,very little but will help. It will not help one bit with burning less wood.
If any owner of a OWB feels he dont have a problem burning 8-14 cords of wood and doing all the work to get this wood and also dont have a problem with neighbors or issues him self about smoke ........ then any information here is probably not going to do him any good. The only information to these owners is doing any good is "the ban of OWB has started" and listed in this thread are the reasons why.
Butch(OH) If you dont mind cutting extra wood for your OWB and going out side all the time in the winter to load it and smokes not a problem you are worried about ........then do it.
Butch(OH) You talk about chimney stack height and you showed pictures in the thread of your taller SMOKE STAINED stack. THANKS! Thats the pictures that needed to be seen.
Get back to us when you have some lab test Butch(OH). Showing your smoke stained pipe and telling us it dont smoke kinda looks like B.S. to me.
Got some EPA test on a "CENTRAL BOILER" but it is in an PDF file trying to do some work to get it on the site... RSPIKE is right... OWB do burn more wood then Brand new type of in door burner (cat type), but not as much as he says it does. Its not how much grams per hour it's how many grams per KG of fuel as said by this report, alot of indoor stoves are not as efficent of retaning the heat in and also running a lot higher pipe temp so the smoke is burnt in the stack and fire box, out door wood stoves keep a lower temp in the stack witch inturns they retane more of the BTU's out of the wood. I hope this makes sense to you all. They are not as clean burning as a cat. type stove but still retane as much BTU's of the fuel then letting it go up thought the pipe. RSpike do you know what the temp your pipe is comming out of your stove?????
RSPIKE dont get all pissy with me on this im just trying to teach people and learn, please.
RSPIKE dont get all pissy with me on this im just trying to teach people and learn, please.
United States National Risk Management
Environmental Protection Research Laboratory
Agency Cincinnati, OH 45268
Project Summary
Research and Development EPA/600/SR-98/017 February 1998
Modern outdoor residential woodburning
hot water furnaces are freestanding
units situated outside the envelope
of the structure to be heated.
They typically consist of a firebox and
water reservoir, assembled in a horizontal
configuration. Hot combustion
gases flow from the firebox at one end,
through channels or tubes in the water
reservoir, to the stack. The gases may
pass through the water reservoir once
to the stack at the end opposite the
firebox (one pass) or an additional set
of pipes may bring the gases back to
the stack located above but isolated
from the combustion chamber (double
pass). The heated water is pumped
through radiators in the dwelling or
through a heat exchanger in the heating,
ventilation, and air-conditioning
(HVAC) duct in response to the home
thermostat. A separate pipe coil in the
water reservoir may be used to provide
domestic hot water, year-round if desired.
The furnace draft is controlled
by a thermostat monitoring the temperature
of the water in the reservoir.
Central heating furnaces of all types
are exempt from the EPA wood heater
(wood stove) standard. In this project,
emissions were measured from a
single-pass and a double-pass furnace
at average heat outputs of 15,000 and
30,000 Btu/hr (4.4 and 8.8 kW) while
burning typical oak cordwood fuel. One
furnace was also tested once at each
heat output while fitted with a prototype
catalytic unit installed in the combustion
chamber. Emissions measured
included: EPA Method 5G particulate,
semivolatile and condensible organics,
20 target polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon
(PAH) compounds, and carbon
monoxide (CO). Emission results are
Emissions from Outdoor Wood-
Burning Residential Hot Water
Furnaces
Joseph C. Valenti and Russell K. Clayton
presented in terms of rate per hour,
quantity per unit weight of wood
burned, and quantity per unit of heat
delivered. Delivered efficiencies are also
presented. Compared to a wide range
of residential heating options, these furnaces’
emissions were of the same order
as other stick wood burning appliances.
This Project Summary was developed
by the National Risk Management Research
Laboratory’s Air Pollution Prevention
and Control Division, Research
Triangle Park, NC, to announce key
findings of the research project that is
fully documented in a separate report
of the same title (see Project Report
ordering information at back).
Introduction
In the early 1980s, the State of Oregon
began developing methods for characterizing
source emissions from residential
wood combustion units. The developed
methods have since blossomed into test
methods used to audit and certify woodburning
heaters. From these beginnings,
the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
(EPA) has established emission performance
standards for residential wood heaters.
The federal regulations established by
the EPA in 1988 limit emissions from residential
wood heaters, such as wood
stoves, pellet stoves, and factory built fireplace
inserts. These regulations, however,
do not include all wood-fired heating appliances.
For example, central heating furnace/
boilers are not covered under the
current regulations.
In general, emissions from the combustion
of wood in stoves and furnaces contain
significant levels of CO and fine particulate
matter (PM) consisting, in part, of
Environmental Protection Research Laboratory
Agency Cincinnati, OH 45268
Project Summary
Research and Development EPA/600/SR-98/017 February 1998
Modern outdoor residential woodburning
hot water furnaces are freestanding
units situated outside the envelope
of the structure to be heated.
They typically consist of a firebox and
water reservoir, assembled in a horizontal
configuration. Hot combustion
gases flow from the firebox at one end,
through channels or tubes in the water
reservoir, to the stack. The gases may
pass through the water reservoir once
to the stack at the end opposite the
firebox (one pass) or an additional set
of pipes may bring the gases back to
the stack located above but isolated
from the combustion chamber (double
pass). The heated water is pumped
through radiators in the dwelling or
through a heat exchanger in the heating,
ventilation, and air-conditioning
(HVAC) duct in response to the home
thermostat. A separate pipe coil in the
water reservoir may be used to provide
domestic hot water, year-round if desired.
The furnace draft is controlled
by a thermostat monitoring the temperature
of the water in the reservoir.
Central heating furnaces of all types
are exempt from the EPA wood heater
(wood stove) standard. In this project,
emissions were measured from a
single-pass and a double-pass furnace
at average heat outputs of 15,000 and
30,000 Btu/hr (4.4 and 8.8 kW) while
burning typical oak cordwood fuel. One
furnace was also tested once at each
heat output while fitted with a prototype
catalytic unit installed in the combustion
chamber. Emissions measured
included: EPA Method 5G particulate,
semivolatile and condensible organics,
20 target polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon
(PAH) compounds, and carbon
monoxide (CO). Emission results are
Emissions from Outdoor Wood-
Burning Residential Hot Water
Furnaces
Joseph C. Valenti and Russell K. Clayton
presented in terms of rate per hour,
quantity per unit weight of wood
burned, and quantity per unit of heat
delivered. Delivered efficiencies are also
presented. Compared to a wide range
of residential heating options, these furnaces’
emissions were of the same order
as other stick wood burning appliances.
This Project Summary was developed
by the National Risk Management Research
Laboratory’s Air Pollution Prevention
and Control Division, Research
Triangle Park, NC, to announce key
findings of the research project that is
fully documented in a separate report
of the same title (see Project Report
ordering information at back).
Introduction
In the early 1980s, the State of Oregon
began developing methods for characterizing
source emissions from residential
wood combustion units. The developed
methods have since blossomed into test
methods used to audit and certify woodburning
heaters. From these beginnings,
the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
(EPA) has established emission performance
standards for residential wood heaters.
The federal regulations established by
the EPA in 1988 limit emissions from residential
wood heaters, such as wood
stoves, pellet stoves, and factory built fireplace
inserts. These regulations, however,
do not include all wood-fired heating appliances.
For example, central heating furnace/
boilers are not covered under the
current regulations.
In general, emissions from the combustion
of wood in stoves and furnaces contain
significant levels of CO and fine particulate
matter (PM) consisting, in part, of
He(( , I'm all for coming up with information ......if you have something to figure I'll post the #'s i know or can find out. My pipe temp i would say is around 800° . This would be the internal temp of the pipe about 10"-12" from the top of the stove. The out side pipe temp would be different ( lower ) the out side pipe temp {on the pipe} would be around 500°MS-310 said:
I'm not in agreeance with your statement above about indoor stove temps and pipe temps but if you are coming up with something I'll let you run with it.
As a note , an older non EPA indoor stove box temps are around 500° with the out side of the box showing around 300°
A newer EPA secondary burn stove runs different. Wile the inside of the fire box will run a little hotter per the log burn as normal and you get around 50% efficiency off the burning log you get smoke , the secondary burn chamber burns this smoke coming off the log/fire and burns the smoke at around 1100° at top of the fire box so in turn it raises the inside temps and this is how the newer stoves get the higher efficiency as it burn the undurn smoke before it goes up and out the pipe stack.
Secondary Cat combustive stoves work about the same except they run off a bypass and when the inside temps get up to 400°-500° you engage the cat vs the by pass and the smoke goes through the secondary cat combuster and burn the smoke at a higher temp.
Last edited:
2
mutagenic PAHs. If atmospheric conditions
are conducive for accumulating
smog-like clouds of emissions, the wood
smoke could pose a health hazard. With
the potential for such a condition under
consideration, the EPA established maximum
acceptable emissions levels for the
certification of most residential wood-fired
heaters.
Typically, the modern outdoor residential
wood-burning hot water furnace is a
freestanding unit situated outside the envelope
of the structure to be heated. The
unit consists of a closed combustion chamber
surrounded by a water tank and vented
through a stack. A wood burning fire is
contained and controlled in the combustion
chamber or firebox of the furnace.
During the combustion process, heat is
transferred through the walls of the chamber
into the water. The hot water from the
furnace tank can then be circulated through
radiators or air-handling heat exchangers
to transfer heat into the residence. Some
central heating furnaces are equipped with
additional plumbing to provide domestic
hot water.
Most commercial central heating furnaces
are supplied with an 8- to 10-ft (2.4
to 3.0 m) tall stack. Typical indoor wood
burning stoves have chimneys which extend
through the roof of a home to heights
of 20 to 30 ft (6.1 to 9.1 m). The relatively
low chimney height of the central heating
furnace/boiler, compared to the conventional
wood stove installations, creates a
greater potential for the localization of objectionable
emissions in and around residences.
Additionally, concerns have been
raised about the manner in which the combustion
process is controlled and how the
control affects the emissions.
The State of Wisconsin has asked the
Control Technology Center of EPA’s Air
Pollution Prevention and Control Division
(APPCD) for assistance in determining
whether the need exists to regulate these
furnaces. Therefore, the EPA has undertaken
the task of evaluating the emissions
from the central heating furnaces and the
manner in which the combustion is controlled.
The objective is to develop baseline
emission factors for comparison with other
residential heating systems.
In the full report, Section 2 describes
the experimental approach and sampling
and analytical methods employed. Steps
to ensure project quality are described in
Section 3. Data, results, and discussion
are presented in Section 4. The appendices
contain the detailed data.
Project Description
Two types of furnaces were selected as
representative of the industry. The type of
furnace is defined by the configuration of
the unit. The flue gases exit the combustion
chamber by way of a flue that passes
through the water tank. A single-pass furnace
allows the flue gases to pass once
through the flue in the water tank before
exiting through the chimney. As the hot
flue gases pass through the flue, heat is
transferred to the water in the tank. In a
double-pass furnace, flue gases pass
through the water tank twice before exiting
through the chimney. The second pass
of the stack provides more surface area
and more contact time between the hot
flue gases and the water in the tank. Representative
furnaces of both types were
provided to EPA/APPCD for testing.
The outdoor residential wood-burning
hot water furnaces were tested following
EPA Reference Method 28 (M28–40 CFR
Part 60, Appendix A), the test method
used to certify and audit wood-fired heaters
(stick and pellet burning woodstoves).
The method specifies fuel preparation, furnace
operation, and the reporting of the
results. Method 28 requires Method 5G or
5H (CFR Part 60, Appendix A) to determine
the concentrations of oxygen (O2),
carbon dioxide (CO2), CO, and PM in the
emissions.
For these tests, some of the fuel preparation
procedures under Method 28 were
modified in favor of preparing the fuel and
operating the furnace as recommended
by the manufacturer. Cordwood was used
instead of the dimensioned lumber specified
for wood heater certification. Method
28A was used to calculate the stack gas
dry molecular weight, as required for flow
measurements. Method 5G was the primary
sampling method used for the test.
The sampling method, Method 5G, was
modified by adding an XAD-2 absorbent
trap to collect organics; this modified sampling
method will hereafter be referred to
as Modified Method 5G (MM5G). The collected
MM5G samples were analyzed for
total PM, total semivolatile organics [sometimes
referred to as total chromatographable
organics (TCOs)], condensible organics as
measured by gravimetric analysis (GRAV),
and PAHs. The efficiencies of the units
were measured as a secondary objective
for reporting emissions relative to the input
heating value of the wood and to their heat
output from the furnace.
Each furnace was tested at two heat
output levels, 15,000 and 30,000 Btu/hr
(4.4 and 8.8 kW). Each test was run in
duplicate for a total of four runs per furnace.
In addition, two high heat output
scoping runs were performed on Furnace
A. Furnace A was also tested once at
each heat output while fitted with a prototype
catalytic device in the combustion
chamber, giving a total of 12 runs.
Results
Two basic furnace designs (single- and
double-pass boiler heat exchangers) were
chosen for these tests to see if the design
impacted emissions. Table 1 presents the
particulate and PAH emission factor data
and efficiency aggregated by furnace and
operating mode. Furnace B showed much
less variability in operation and emissions
data compared to Furnace A. Whether
this is due to (1) furnace design, (2) the
way the fuel was loaded, and/or (3) the
differences in the draft on/off cycles cannot
be determined without further tests;
more than likely, all three variables exerted
significant influence.
Table 2 lists the emission results for
various residential combustion devices.
The results from this investigation (see
bottom row in Table 2) were included as
an average from all the tests. Based on
this very limited test, it appears that the
total particulate emission factor is comparable
to that for conventional wood stoves.
Note that all particulate values have been
converted to the EPA Method 5H equivalent.
The PAH emission factor appears to
be generally the same as that for EPA
certified wood stoves. The data presented
in Table 2 were originally generated by
different researchers using a variety of
sampling and analytical methodologies. A
number of assumptions had to be made
to “normalize” the data for comparison.
Consequently, only order of magnitude differences
should be considered significant.
Readers are encouraged to review the
reference cited in the footnote for a more
thorough understanding of the data.
Conclusions
There were several data quality problems
with tests of Furnace A, all of which,
though significant, are thought to be small
enough to not bias the results for Furnace
A sufficiently to cause an order of magnitude
error. Tests of Furnace B had no
reported data quality problems. All tests
of Furnace B particulate matter emissions
were in the range of 16.5 to 17.6 g/hr
(high heat removal rate - tests B-1 and B-
2) and 14.3 to 15.5 g/hr (low heat removal
rate - tests B-3 and B-4). Particulate matter
emissions from Furnace A appear consistently
higher; but, within the limits of
these tests, experimental error, and considering
the testing problems previously
discussed that may have compromised
the data quality for Furnace A, a direct
comparison of Furnace A and Furnace B
emissions is without adequate foundation
and, therefore, is not meaningful. However,
from Table 2, it is evident that all
wood-burning home heating combustion
equipment, including wood stoves, boil-
This is an EPA REPORT....... they have the numbers on a PDF file I cant get to you guys. 10.8 grams of stuff to 1 KG of fuel for an OWB
10.8 grams of stuff to 1 KG for an Catalytic stove 5 types(they didnt say witch type of stoves.
This is all on an Central boiler.
mutagenic PAHs. If atmospheric conditions
are conducive for accumulating
smog-like clouds of emissions, the wood
smoke could pose a health hazard. With
the potential for such a condition under
consideration, the EPA established maximum
acceptable emissions levels for the
certification of most residential wood-fired
heaters.
Typically, the modern outdoor residential
wood-burning hot water furnace is a
freestanding unit situated outside the envelope
of the structure to be heated. The
unit consists of a closed combustion chamber
surrounded by a water tank and vented
through a stack. A wood burning fire is
contained and controlled in the combustion
chamber or firebox of the furnace.
During the combustion process, heat is
transferred through the walls of the chamber
into the water. The hot water from the
furnace tank can then be circulated through
radiators or air-handling heat exchangers
to transfer heat into the residence. Some
central heating furnaces are equipped with
additional plumbing to provide domestic
hot water.
Most commercial central heating furnaces
are supplied with an 8- to 10-ft (2.4
to 3.0 m) tall stack. Typical indoor wood
burning stoves have chimneys which extend
through the roof of a home to heights
of 20 to 30 ft (6.1 to 9.1 m). The relatively
low chimney height of the central heating
furnace/boiler, compared to the conventional
wood stove installations, creates a
greater potential for the localization of objectionable
emissions in and around residences.
Additionally, concerns have been
raised about the manner in which the combustion
process is controlled and how the
control affects the emissions.
The State of Wisconsin has asked the
Control Technology Center of EPA’s Air
Pollution Prevention and Control Division
(APPCD) for assistance in determining
whether the need exists to regulate these
furnaces. Therefore, the EPA has undertaken
the task of evaluating the emissions
from the central heating furnaces and the
manner in which the combustion is controlled.
The objective is to develop baseline
emission factors for comparison with other
residential heating systems.
In the full report, Section 2 describes
the experimental approach and sampling
and analytical methods employed. Steps
to ensure project quality are described in
Section 3. Data, results, and discussion
are presented in Section 4. The appendices
contain the detailed data.
Project Description
Two types of furnaces were selected as
representative of the industry. The type of
furnace is defined by the configuration of
the unit. The flue gases exit the combustion
chamber by way of a flue that passes
through the water tank. A single-pass furnace
allows the flue gases to pass once
through the flue in the water tank before
exiting through the chimney. As the hot
flue gases pass through the flue, heat is
transferred to the water in the tank. In a
double-pass furnace, flue gases pass
through the water tank twice before exiting
through the chimney. The second pass
of the stack provides more surface area
and more contact time between the hot
flue gases and the water in the tank. Representative
furnaces of both types were
provided to EPA/APPCD for testing.
The outdoor residential wood-burning
hot water furnaces were tested following
EPA Reference Method 28 (M28–40 CFR
Part 60, Appendix A), the test method
used to certify and audit wood-fired heaters
(stick and pellet burning woodstoves).
The method specifies fuel preparation, furnace
operation, and the reporting of the
results. Method 28 requires Method 5G or
5H (CFR Part 60, Appendix A) to determine
the concentrations of oxygen (O2),
carbon dioxide (CO2), CO, and PM in the
emissions.
For these tests, some of the fuel preparation
procedures under Method 28 were
modified in favor of preparing the fuel and
operating the furnace as recommended
by the manufacturer. Cordwood was used
instead of the dimensioned lumber specified
for wood heater certification. Method
28A was used to calculate the stack gas
dry molecular weight, as required for flow
measurements. Method 5G was the primary
sampling method used for the test.
The sampling method, Method 5G, was
modified by adding an XAD-2 absorbent
trap to collect organics; this modified sampling
method will hereafter be referred to
as Modified Method 5G (MM5G). The collected
MM5G samples were analyzed for
total PM, total semivolatile organics [sometimes
referred to as total chromatographable
organics (TCOs)], condensible organics as
measured by gravimetric analysis (GRAV),
and PAHs. The efficiencies of the units
were measured as a secondary objective
for reporting emissions relative to the input
heating value of the wood and to their heat
output from the furnace.
Each furnace was tested at two heat
output levels, 15,000 and 30,000 Btu/hr
(4.4 and 8.8 kW). Each test was run in
duplicate for a total of four runs per furnace.
In addition, two high heat output
scoping runs were performed on Furnace
A. Furnace A was also tested once at
each heat output while fitted with a prototype
catalytic device in the combustion
chamber, giving a total of 12 runs.
Results
Two basic furnace designs (single- and
double-pass boiler heat exchangers) were
chosen for these tests to see if the design
impacted emissions. Table 1 presents the
particulate and PAH emission factor data
and efficiency aggregated by furnace and
operating mode. Furnace B showed much
less variability in operation and emissions
data compared to Furnace A. Whether
this is due to (1) furnace design, (2) the
way the fuel was loaded, and/or (3) the
differences in the draft on/off cycles cannot
be determined without further tests;
more than likely, all three variables exerted
significant influence.
Table 2 lists the emission results for
various residential combustion devices.
The results from this investigation (see
bottom row in Table 2) were included as
an average from all the tests. Based on
this very limited test, it appears that the
total particulate emission factor is comparable
to that for conventional wood stoves.
Note that all particulate values have been
converted to the EPA Method 5H equivalent.
The PAH emission factor appears to
be generally the same as that for EPA
certified wood stoves. The data presented
in Table 2 were originally generated by
different researchers using a variety of
sampling and analytical methodologies. A
number of assumptions had to be made
to “normalize” the data for comparison.
Consequently, only order of magnitude differences
should be considered significant.
Readers are encouraged to review the
reference cited in the footnote for a more
thorough understanding of the data.
Conclusions
There were several data quality problems
with tests of Furnace A, all of which,
though significant, are thought to be small
enough to not bias the results for Furnace
A sufficiently to cause an order of magnitude
error. Tests of Furnace B had no
reported data quality problems. All tests
of Furnace B particulate matter emissions
were in the range of 16.5 to 17.6 g/hr
(high heat removal rate - tests B-1 and B-
2) and 14.3 to 15.5 g/hr (low heat removal
rate - tests B-3 and B-4). Particulate matter
emissions from Furnace A appear consistently
higher; but, within the limits of
these tests, experimental error, and considering
the testing problems previously
discussed that may have compromised
the data quality for Furnace A, a direct
comparison of Furnace A and Furnace B
emissions is without adequate foundation
and, therefore, is not meaningful. However,
from Table 2, it is evident that all
wood-burning home heating combustion
equipment, including wood stoves, boil-
This is an EPA REPORT....... they have the numbers on a PDF file I cant get to you guys. 10.8 grams of stuff to 1 KG of fuel for an OWB
10.8 grams of stuff to 1 KG for an Catalytic stove 5 types(they didnt say witch type of stoves.
This is all on an Central boiler.
Rspike said:
A newer EPA secondary burn stove is more Eff. by a few ways.
They dont have to move the heat to the house by under ground pipe.
They have refinded them better then OWB..... I guess the one thing that I got going on this is cuz I been going though this at my town and trying to prove my point, they are not that bad like some of these sites say and I guess im the only one trying to get some real facts on the truth.
You got to give up some thing to get some thing. More Eff. stove is in side-less Eff.(not by much) is outside, I like my fire out side so yea I mite burn a face cord or 2 more but I like it outside, they cost more(owb) Indoor stoves are cheap, harder to clean.... I could go on for ever but you see my point, we have ran on about it alot, been fun and thursday is a meeting and hopfully the city understands 60 sheets of paper I got on OWB.
Thanks for the INFO, Im going to check my pipe temp rspike.
laynes69
Addicted to ArboristSite
The idea of keeping a house within 1+/- degree of temperature is great. I have those days where I sweat my a$$ off because I have problems keeping the heat constant with my indoor wood furnace. They heat your hot water, which can be done with my indoor wood furnace, but can potentialy create a bomb. Everything has its +'s and -'s it all what you need. Ever seen the indoor wood boilers, which are gasification boilers, they use a storage tank so if you burn the fire, the storage tank holds the heat for later. TARM is one of them. You convert a standard outdoor wood boiler to a gasification boiler and you can could probably get it to pass epa. I do believe the future will have outdoor wood gasification boilers, if not already now. Technology will improve, things will get better.
Butch(OH)
Addicted to ArboristSite
Rspike said:
Ha ha Spike as always you have put words in my mouth that I didn't say to make your point. The "yap" doesn't come from me it came from the people that you have quoted so many times, the EPA, so why attack me for it? I was simply trying to find out how much worse I am polluting than you are and surprise surprise I found a friend in what I thought to be my enemy. And nope the small amount of smoke doesn't bother me a bit. It does however bother you and the EPA but in the same breath they say it is no more harmful than your stove exhaust so how about saying "US" when talking pollution instead of "them" LOL. Me? get a test lab? but why would I want to do that? I am paying for a big time lab now at the EPA. Even you have posted EPA data as Gospel so why is this data different? Smoke pics? Go back and find where I said it doesn't smoke at all? My clean stack pics are presented to balance the ones you posted, and were not intended to indicate clear stack at all times. You tried to put those words in my post but all can go back and look. At least I can sleep tight knowing mine are real life since I took them right out my back door and dint have to cruise the internet looking for photos to make a point.
Since your friends at the EPA have informed me that I am not the polluter you claim me to be I will be lots happier this winter as I bask in hot water with no limit and a house that is as warm as I crank the thermostat setting to.
I am sorry that this POs you as I really owe you one, since it was you who provoked me into looking at the EPA site for test data.
Have a nice evening!
I dont know about where you live but in MI it goes up quit a bit. My insurance company will not even insure a home or outbuilding with a homebuilt stove.
· Vermont Department of Environmental Conservation (VT DEC) determined,
pursuant to litigation, that a unit produced by Central Boiler (Model CL-7260)
had an “adjusted emission rate” of 93.76 g/hr for PM. This number was derived
by state review of laboratory testing conducted by the manufacturer. Central
Boiler claims in their submission of the tests that the actual rate was 3.6 g/hr.
However, after thorough review, the Vermont DEC Air Pollution Control Agency
concluded that Central Boiler incorrectly interpreted the data . The state’s calculations of 93.76 g/hr are accurate.
· US EPA and the New York Attorney General’s Office have obtained sales and
emissions data from manufacturers. Table 5-1 contains emissions data made
public by the New York Attorney General’s Office. OWB manufacturers have
claimed that these data are Confidential Business Information and therefore
NESCAUM has not been able to review the test reports or underlying test
procedures37 and therefore cannot confirm the test results nor determine the
amount of emissions that may not have been measured in the condensable portion
of the emissions. However, the data do show high emission rates and indicate that
manufacturers are aware of these high emission rates from their OWBs.
pursuant to litigation, that a unit produced by Central Boiler (Model CL-7260)
had an “adjusted emission rate” of 93.76 g/hr for PM. This number was derived
by state review of laboratory testing conducted by the manufacturer. Central
Boiler claims in their submission of the tests that the actual rate was 3.6 g/hr.
However, after thorough review, the Vermont DEC Air Pollution Control Agency
concluded that Central Boiler incorrectly interpreted the data . The state’s calculations of 93.76 g/hr are accurate.
· US EPA and the New York Attorney General’s Office have obtained sales and
emissions data from manufacturers. Table 5-1 contains emissions data made
public by the New York Attorney General’s Office. OWB manufacturers have
claimed that these data are Confidential Business Information and therefore
NESCAUM has not been able to review the test reports or underlying test
procedures37 and therefore cannot confirm the test results nor determine the
amount of emissions that may not have been measured in the condensable portion
of the emissions. However, the data do show high emission rates and indicate that
manufacturers are aware of these high emission rates from their OWBs.
There ya go Central boiler had test run made on there stove. Not the out come they were looking for thus is why the test are not posted by them from the lab test.
Central Boiler (Model CL-7260)
had an “adjusted emission rate” of 93.76 g/hr for PM. This number was derived by state review of laboratory testing conducted by the manufacturer. Central Boiler
Central Boiler (Model CL-7260)
had an “adjusted emission rate” of 93.76 g/hr for PM. This number was derived by state review of laboratory testing conducted by the manufacturer. Central Boiler
HOME BUILT STOVE??? You must be think of another thread ... no body is talking about home built stoves being installed and insurance. Where did you come up with that??bwalker said:
bwalker said:
I'm full of crap? When you bring wood into the house in a rubber maid container with a lid on it and it goes from the back room to right in front of the wood stove , open the lid and put two logs into the stove and shut the lid.......... how big of pig do you have to be to make a mess? I'm sorry your friend has problems with such a simple task . Does he spill his dinner plate when he goes from the kitchen to the table? Ha ! It not that hard BW. Good lord man ....... not every body is a cave man.
You asked about ashes ............ I have an ash bucket out side my back door. I have an ash pan clean out under my stove and scrap the ashes into the ash pan and let them sit to settle , minutes later i pull out the ash pan and take it out side. NO MESS . Not that hard to do.
Hey Spike....just for conversation sake....what kind of vehicle do you drive?
Whats that got to do with the thread topic ? Are we going to derail the thread again. Thats seems to be the norm for anybody taking a side of OWB , we have to talk about something else that has nothing to do with the ban of OWB. Bring some true insite and information to the conversation , How about safe sex ? do i smoke a cigar , how much do i drink ..........Nothing to do with OWB .CaseyForrest said:
CaseyForrest ...... Start a new thread.
OK....my point is I'm sure you don't drive the most environmentally responsible vehicle. You drive what enables you to do what you do.
If you are going to get on your soapbox about OWB emissions, then you should get yourself one of those Hybrids, and really make an impact.
My intent wasn't to derail the thread, but to point out that we all do and choose whats convenient for our lifestyles. I see you railing on anyone who chooses to use an OWB. I have yet to see anyone berate you for your choice of wood burners.
If you are going to get on your soapbox about OWB emissions, then you should get yourself one of those Hybrids, and really make an impact.
My intent wasn't to derail the thread, but to point out that we all do and choose whats convenient for our lifestyles. I see you railing on anyone who chooses to use an OWB. I have yet to see anyone berate you for your choice of wood burners.
Butch(OH)
Addicted to ArboristSite
Here it is again, I forgot to post it in the long winded rant but was in a post afterwards, Old age setting in CRSRspike said:
http://www.vtwoodsmoke.org/pdf/EPA-woodburn.pdf
Nope , No Hybrids here . 1991 Ford Bronco 351C 4x4 Silver Anniversary Special . The truck is fully with in goverment specs , exhaust and all. A whole 15 MPG town, 16-17 highway . Times have change but what i drive has not. I only drive under 4k miles a year.CaseyForrest said:
My truck will pass emissions test ..........an OWB dont.
There are no states , towns , governments baning my truck.
So do i buy a new truck for $40,000 and still get 15 MPG ?
How about i buy a new Hybrid and pull the big trailers i need to pull . off road 4x4 Hybrids ? Just wont work brother.
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