Bar length and saw power

[RandyMac]

Chain/bar friction is a very small variable, teeth in the wood is the main one.
Chains should be tailored to the power characteristics and wood being sawn.
The standard ''grind'' is a compromise between cutting speed and durability.
In most cases with modern saws, too much bar leads to failures.

 

[Westboastfaller]

The additional friction has to dissipate energy, and the extra mass has to slow acceleration (like a flywheel). The issues is how does that compare to the energy used in cutting wood? I think it is a very small fraction, but maybe someone has some data.

You can't get an 'argument from me on that. It's 'net force' vs < mass +
< coefficient of friction. That's just how the wheel goes around. Slow your drag per Rev (Non load) or higher your "Net force".
Yes it would be very little difference in motion. There are much bigger concerns through out the day that we have to adapt with angles and depths to balance for species that do make a huge difference that can stop the saw. this will not.

A matter of setting up the idle and tune to the extra mass and friction. If you 'set up a saw' without a bar and chain you can simulate drag by draging your fingers on the drum. There is a slight difference you can make to dial in to a longer bar.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

The USDA marked an 8.5' or 9' sugar pine that they wanted gone and the largest bar I had was a 4'. It was on a hillside that would have been challenging by my self to get elevated enough to make my 4 footer work, So I ordered a 6' bar with .063 groove and was thinking that my .056 super would have a very tough time pulling a none skip chain through that tree. As it turned out it was not at all difficult. It just needed a precise touch. However many saws have come and gone since and try not to use any bar much larger than the tree diameter typically my saws have 28'' to 32'' bar for 36'' trees and 24'' bars for 24'' to 30'' trees. There is no reason to pull a longer bar than necessary. Thanks

 

[Gypo Logger]

I have to agree that a longer bar gives a safety margin in bucking situations, but mostly on steep ground where the added reach comes in to effect.
Longer bars than nessesary can lead to operator fatigue thereby increasing the possibility of tripping into a saw.
Working without a skull bucket is also dangerous.

 

[Trx250r180]

View attachment 548036 I have to agree that a longer bar gives a safety margin in bucking situations, but mostly on steep ground where the added reach comes in to effect.
Longer bars than nessesary can lead to operator fatigue thereby increasing the possibility of tripping into a saw.
Working without a skull bucket is also dangerous.

At least you kept your ears warm .

 

[Griffdog1]

There definitely seems to be a "regional" element to bar length preferences that I guess is based part on tradition, part on local wood varieties and part on fashion. It seems in Australia that most people with 60-75cc saw just go for a 20 inch bar and be done with it. This allows most things to be done reasonable well and gives most saws a good balanced feel. Aussie trees are hard and don't tend to have uniform branch structures so a long bar can be a PITA when you are trying to limb and buck it once it is down. People tend to just run a standard semi chisel chain and you rarely see a skip tooth chain. Big saws with big bars are something of a specialty item here for those that actually need to fell really big trees quickly as part of their work.
Just starting to se people really wanting to pull out a "Big Dog" saw with their mates and this would be good for Stihl who I think sell a lot of 661's to young blokes who really don't need that big a saw, but even these blokes would look at a 24 inch as being a "long bar".
Mid range Stihls and 268/72 and 365/72 huskies have been the staples here and I reckon 90% of them would be running a 20 inch bar.

 

[Gypo Logger]

There definitely seems to be a "regional" element to bar length preferences that I guess is based part on tradition, part on local wood varieties and part on fashion. It seems in Australia that most people with 60-75cc saw just go for a 20 inch bar and be done with it. This allows most things to be done reasonable well and gives most saws a good balanced feel. Aussie trees are hard and don't tend to have uniform branch structures so a long bar can be a PITA when you are trying to limb and buck it once it is down. People tend to just run a standard semi chisel chain and you rarely see a skip tooth chain. Big saws with big bars are something of a specialty item here for those that actually need to fell really big trees quickly as part of their work.
Just starting to se people really wanting to pull out a "Big Dog" saw with their mates and this would be good for Stihl who I think sell a lot of 661's to young blokes who really don't need that big a saw, but even these blokes would look at a 24 inch as being a "long bar".
Mid range Stihls and 268/72 and 365/72 huskies have been the staples here and I reckon 90% of them would be running a 20 inch bar.

I think you are correct about some operators using longer bars out of fashion than for effect.
I see alot of woodticks using 24- 32" bars on stock 365's. When I ask them why the usual reponse is that they don't like bending over or that they are cutting in a deck and want to cut several sticks at a time.
One firewooder even said with the 32" bar it was easier to carry the saw over his shoulder from one end of the deck to the other.

 

[Griffdog1]

I think you are correct about some operators using longer bars out of fashion than for effect.
I see alot of woodticks using 24- 32" bars on stock 365's. When I ask them why the usual reponse is that they don't like bending over or that they are cutting in a deck and want to cut several sticks at a time.
One firewooder even said with the 32" bar it was easier to carry the saw over his shoulder from one end of the deck to the other.

It does kinda amaze me that most people don't ask themselves some simple questions - such as "what sort of wood do I generally cut?" That's different to "What sort of wood do I want to be able to cut every now and then?"
I understand that for a lot of people a saw is a bit like a motorbike - you don't really need to go 180mph but you like the idea that it can. I think people do like the idea that having a long bar signifies that it is a powerful saw, even if most of what you are doing could be accomplished with 60cc saw and 18 inch bar.
If I was forced to hang onto only 3 of my saws I would have a 14 inch bar on my Dolmar ps-410, a 20 inch on my 120si and 24 inch on my ProMac850, but I bet the Mac would hardly get used and most likely the little Dolly would get its a-- worked off. If I had to choose to keep one it would be the 120si with 20 inch cause I like these older saws, and then I would realise that nice 365/72 husky probably makes more sense and I could still horde the parts to keep it running for the next 15 years - 20 inches on that too.

 

[svk]

It does kinda amaze me that most people don't ask themselves some simple questions - such as "what sort of wood do I generally cut?" That's different to "What sort of wood do I want to be able to cut every now and then?"
I understand that for a lot of people a saw is a bit like a motorbike - you don't really need to go 180mph but you like the idea that it can. I think people do like the idea that having a long bar signifies that it is a powerful saw, even if most of what you are doing could be accomplished with 60cc saw and 18 inch bar.
If I was forced to hole onto only 3 of my saws I would have a 14 inch bar on my Dolmar ps-410, a 20 inch on my 120si and 24 inch on my ProMac850, but I bet the Mac would hardly get used and most likely the little Dolly would get its a-- worked off. If I had to choose to keep one it would be the 120si with 20 inch cause I like these older saws, and then I would realise that nice 365/72 husky probably makes more sense and I could still horde the parts to keep it running for the next 15 years - 20 inches on that too.

Good points.

Because I'm often cutting in uneven rocky terrain I don't like using a bar any longer than necessary to avoid putting the tip into rocky ground or a protruding rock that might be hiding itself under a trunk or within a tree crown. So the 16" gets used most for non yard tree cutting. I'll pull out the longer bars only as necessary.

I will say I don't like to do felling cuts with a bar that is too short to get through the tree in one cut. I've done it from time to time but prefer not to.

 

[Gypo Logger]

This!

 

[Gypo Logger]

Or this?

 

[Chris-PA]

That's an easy one, I'll go with this.

 

[Trx250r180]

Obviously not a pro faller John ,you have no Husqvarna .

 

[Gypo Logger]