Stihl bars

[larrypac]

Can someone enlighten me about these two Stihl bars. The shorter one is from a 025, Longer is from a 028. Both .325, .63. Shorter says 18" and 68 DL, longer shows 18" from body of saw to tip of bar, and 74 DL, and is about 2" longer overall than the short one. It seems to me like the longer is a 20" bar but wouldn't that be stamped on it?

 

[BeatCJ]

I would guess the difference is in the way they measure a 3003 mount and a 3005 mount. The 3003 will fit anything from an 024 to an 066, the bar studs are in a different place on the saws.

The 3005 mount is not used on their professional line saws, but I think fits anything up to your 025.

 

[larrypac]

You said The 3003 will fit anything from an 024 to an 066. Is the 025 not in that range?

 

[altatim]

There are professional and homeowner series. 017, 018, 021, 023, 025, 029, 039, ms170, ms180 etc are built with a different bar mount. 024, 034, 241, 361, 362, 044, etc are pro saws with a different bar mount.

 

[larrypac]

Thanks. The other question is, is it considered an 18" bar? The 025 bar has 18" stamped in to it. The 3003 bar shows a drawing with 18" measured between saw body and tip of blade

 

[lone wolf]

Thanks. The other question is, is it considered an 18" bar? The 025 bar has 18" stamped in to it. The 3003 bar shows a drawing with 18" measured between saw body and tip of blade

Mount it and measure it!

 

[bwalker]

Thanks. The other question is, is it considered an 18" bar? The 025 bar has 18" stamped in to it. The 3003 bar shows a drawing with 18" measured between saw body and tip of blade

If its stamped 18" I would say Stihl considers it an 18" bar.

 

[irhunter]

There are professional and homeowner series. 017, 018, 021, 023, 025, 029, 039, ms170, ms180 etc are built with a different bar mount. 024, 034, 241, 361, 362, 044, etc are pro saws with a different bar mount.

Actually, there are Homeowner, Farm/Ranch, and Pro Stihl saws. The 029 and 039 use the same mount as the saws in your pro line-up.

At 45 cc, the 025 is the largest Homeowner Stihl.

Roy

 

[singinwoodwackr]

3003 and 3005 are not the same . They ‘fit’ a saw differently, hence the different lengths.

 

[cscltd]

POULAN I think started that trend were they would dimensionally measure bar lengths (think 2”x4” lumber)
Other manufacturers had to adapt as there bars would seem shorter.
We use to call that 025 bar 17” as that was really what the cut was with chain on. But was changed as the Stihl saw were 1” inch shorter than other brands were even though the length was effectively the same.
Notice that the larger bar tells you how they measured it, yet smaller one does not.
We never say 18” cut on those saws, just 18” bar

 

[BeatCJ]

Actually, there are Homeowner, Farm/Ranch, and Pro Stihl saws. The 029 and 039 use the same mount as the saws in your pro line-up.

At 45 cc, the 025 is the largest Homeowner Stihl.

Roy

While Stihl calls those saws something different, I think I only mentioned the pro saws. And I agree, the overlap can make it confusing. MS 271 also uses the 3003 mount.

https://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/all/

 

[Wood Doctor]

3003 and 3005 are not the same . They ‘fit’ a saw differently, hence the different lengths.

Correct. Two different bars for two different saws and not interchangeable. Simple as that. Stihl wanted you to buy two different bars and two different chains. I guess they figured nobody would ever squawk about that. Rather myopic in my book.

 

[irhunter]

I don't see the Stihl position either difficult to understand or grounded in ill intent.

Homeowner saws (MS250 and such) get homeowner mount bars. Farmer (e.g., MS271...) and pro saws get the pro mount. Except the 880.

Easy to understand. A total of three bar mounts...I call that, not unreasonable.

Look at Husky...seems way odder. How about the 555 versus 562? Both so-called pro saws, both 60 cc, different mounts!

Roy

 

[BeatCJ]

I agree. From a manufacturing standpoint, I suspect they would make more money by not having multiple mounts. I suspect it's an engineering issue, and the engineers won over the accountants.

 

[Wood Doctor]

I agree. From a manufacturing standpoint, I suspect they would make more money by not having multiple mounts. I suspect it's an engineering issue, and the engineers won over the accountants.

Seems like a pointless engineering issue because both saws still use the same chain (0.325 pitch). I have an 025 model saw that has no trouble pulling an 18" bar that's only a tad shorter than my 026 PRO's bar. Stihl's decision to not use the same two bars on both models was absurd.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Thanks. The other question is, is it considered an 18" bar? The 025 bar has 18" stamped in to it. The 3003 bar shows a drawing with 18" measured between saw body and tip of blade

The bar from the 025 has an older style marking, the 3003 as you call it a more recent style marking. Both are what STIHL calls 18" bars due to industry marketing convention, and yes, it is confusing at first as some bar manufacturers use a different number for the same length bar. Look at the Drive Link count, that tells you if they're the same or different lengths if the number of drive links is the same (or different).

Also watch out for 3/8" vs 3/8" Pico, the Pico is actually less than 3/8".

STIHL likely uses different mounts as the saws target different markets with different amounts of annual use. A Homeowner doesn't need to pay the high price of a Pro saw when they're using it 1/100th as much as a Pro and a less expensive saw will do the job and still last 20+ years.

 

[Franny K]

I don't see the Stihl position either difficult to understand or grounded in ill intent.

Sell more goods by having more goods at the dealership. That is one intent.

Easy to understand. A total of three bar mounts...I call that, not unreasonable.

The differing drive link counts regardless of what called length is what the thread is basically about. Look at Husky 56, 64, 72, sensible balanced loops. 66 and 78 as well

Look at Husky...seems way odder. How about the 555 versus 562? Both so-called pro saws, both 60 cc, different mounts!

Stihl changes over from the pole saw and pro arborist saw bars, the 3005 ones to the 3003 ones at the ms251/MS261. 60 ish cc has varied with brand x. For the USA the 562 to use the bigger bars elsewhere the 560?

 

[muddy42]

I don't see a problem with the stihl system. You could easily have say a very useful trio of say a 261, 461 and 661 all with interchangeable bars.
Not that I really swap bars very often - bar lengths should be very specific to engine size.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Sell more goods by having more goods at the dealership. That is one intent.

The carrying cost for multiple items is more than for fewer items, so the dealer makes less profit by inventorying more items and requiring more shelf space. It also adds to consumer confusion which is a negative impact on sales. One can guess that stocking more items results in more sales, and to some degree that's true, but it also results in less profit because a man only needs so many toasters, or saw chains, or swimsuits. (note this doesn't apply to women who enjoy the dopamine rush from buying a new set of shoes even though they have 40 pair in the closet sitting unused, but we are talking about saw bars/chain, not women's shoes)

STIHL therefore needs a sound reason to make a different product, because creating another product increases design costs, manufacturing equipment and manufacturing costs, packaging costs, etc. Looking into how the products are made and the outcomes of those decisions I'd guess STIHL is trying to save everyone money, and make profit by making a better (or "The Best Quality") product. An example is 0.050" gauge bar/chain is sold to markets with softer wood (U.S.A.), 0.063" to markets with harder wood (Australia). 0.050" gauge is likely more expensive to make as the drivers are actually 0.063" narrowed to 0.050", but that small added expense likely benefits the consumer by having a narrower/lighter bar and lighter chain.

Husqvarna and ECHO seem to have similar reasoning, but Husqvarna appears to focus on a lower end-user price for better price/performance ratio, and ECHO appears to focus on design simplicity, increased reliability, and lower initial and parts costs. The market is highly competitive and the consumers price conscious, brands know that and appear to target different market mentalities with a laser focus and provide their customers with exactly what the customer wants, or at least as close to that desire as practical.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

bar lengths should be very specific to engine size.

There are other factors one might consider depending on need. An MS362, MS400, MS462, and MS500 will all buck a 22" diameter log with a 25" bar. A 28" bar will heat the nose sprocket less and the extra cutters will likely keep the chain sharper, longer, so the bar sprocket will last longer and the saw may cut faster for longer. For that matter a MS261 with skip chain can buck the log too--I wouldn't usually suggest it, but if that's the only saw a person owns and they almost never need to buck that large a tree...it's an option, and not the best option, and there are definitely methods for using a small bar that work on large logs, .

Personally, I'll buck the log with a MS881 and 25" bar, which seems foolish in concept. In practice though a full cut takes less than nine seconds, so I'm done working pretty much right after I start (at least as far as bucking that tree is concerned). Would I use the saw for limbing? NO.

Anyway, just a few thoughts on why one might match the bar to the job, and the chain to what the powerhead can pull. (And remember I do landscaping as a side job, so cutting trees isn't a daily thing, it's an occasional need and something I enjoy as a hobby)