Barber Chair

[millbilly]

okay, so in this case, the fact that there is 3 feet of trunk remaining can serve to remedy the cut? and your next cut would be below the current one (of course, duh!) and with a proper wedge cut out, followed by the back cut? Am I understanding your thoughts correctly? Thanks!

Just start under cutting from the tip back to the stump. Not being able to seeing the whole tree in the picture I would assume The butt wants to kick back toward the stump.

 

[HuskStihl]

Okay, when a tree gets stupid like this, How does one clean it up? I would assume not going after the strip of tree stuck to the trunk, that just looks like it will get interesting and dangerous very quickly. Is the best method to start limbing what is down until there is a controllable bit of the tree left?

Safest way is to put a chain on it and pull it off the stump, if possible

 

[bucknfeller]

Safest way is to put a chain on it and pull it off the stump, if possible

That's what I would do. Either that, or drop another one on it. No way would I get in there and try to cut it down off the stump.

 

[ncpete]

yeah, I think I like the gas powered winches for things like that. Out of my budget, so I guess a come-a-long and some chain would have to suffice.

 

[treeslayer2003]

I would never cut a chaired tree off, awful lot of pressure. I would just pull it down with the skidder. or a tractor or something. yea, we chair one once in a while.

 

[northmanlogging]

like all thing it depends on the tree, but I generally have no problem with cutting a chaired tree off the rest of the way, not that it happens real often though. If its hung up, chaired and leaning the wrong way, then traction devices come into play.

 

[bucknfeller]

My thinking is, if you couldn't cut it right the first time, what makes you think you can cut it right the second time.

 

[Hedgerow]

​

My thinking is, if you couldn't cut it right the first time, what makes you think you can cut it right the second time.

..:msp_biggrin:
Such a simple truth...
From a farmer no less...
Hahahahahaha....

Push that sonofabich off there with the loader and be done with it..
It ain't like its a redwood or something...
Sheesh...
:msp_rolleyes:

 

[Naked Arborist]

I'll chime in for 2cts. I had an old friend killed buy a barber chair on a big white oak. Let's just say machine operators should not be felling trees. Saw him on a Thursday after fifteen years of no see. Next Thursday he was dead an hour or so before we were having that beer.

In my own personal experience I have had one 60ft high 2ft wide solid white oak barber chair right up the middle for 20+ feet and it hung right up there on the top tip. My mistake was leaving the hinge too wide in the center. I did everything right and it went all wrong. The tree was leaning twenty degrees+. I had a bull line on it, through a block choked to another tree, and back to the truck so I could direct the fall. The line was not loaded just no slack with the line up tight. When it popped and went so did I. The saw stayed. The tree fell where intended but I WILL NEVER forget that sound. I gave me a sinking feeling in just a split second as I ran. I not afraid to run. It was pulled off the top by tossing a shot line and rigging up with the bull line. After you have one explode in your face and shower you with splinters you get a whole new respect for wood and your life. The intention was to do a safe fall. Things don't always go as planed so I always have two good escape roots planed in advance for every single tree cut!

Forget the saw, who cares about a saw when tons of wood might be heading your way. Never seen one go so wrong like that and hope I never do again.

By all means know your limits and you will live within them. A smart person knows when to walk away a seek the expertise of a pro. I have walked away from several trees beyond my capability before and after that. The old saying goes "A fool and his money are soon parted" This should NEVER be about money. What's your life worth?

Barber Chair is poor term. It should be called the "The Killer Vertical Split"

 

[rarefish383]

Forty plus years and I think I know my limits. The problem is the guy that is 99% sure of what he's doing, and is 89% wrong! I retired a few years back, and I used to run around the corner every time I heard a saw, wishing I was still up there. Now that I'm into milling large logs the climbing bug is bout gone. I'm happy playing with my big saw in another way. I can go down to my cousins yard and pick out any bog log there, I'm happy, Joe.

 

[roberte]

How about another cup of coffee and a lice comb.

 

[MCW]

Okay, when a tree gets stupid like this, How does one clean it up? I would assume not going after the strip of tree stuck to the trunk, that just looks like it will get interesting and dangerous very quickly. Is the best method to start limbing what is down until there is a controllable bit of the tree left?

When you get into bifurcated trunks you judge each tree individually and take one limb down at a time. If you try to take the whole lot down in one hit at ground level there is a good chance the trunk(s) will split and you might end up wearing one as a hat but this does depend on the individual tree. The particular species in the photo is a native Australian hardwood species called Casuarina and bifurcated trunks are common (sometimes called dual leaders although I've seen up to 7 leaders). That particular tree was the first thing resembling a barber chair in around 18,000 trees I've fallen of this species. They are not prone to barber chairing but I'm still very careful as always. This was my fault though and top handled saws are certainly not suited for falling even though I've used them a bit in smaller stuff. Tends to hurt my wrist after a while though.

those short saws scare me falling anything ,i like longer bars keep my face away from popping stuff

I was actually just pruning base limbs off these trees with my 200T and decided to knock over a few smaller limbs in the process. This only happened because I made the face cut too closed.

 

[millbilly]

Strange, we have had this rule ever since I started tree work, more than 40 years ago. TOP HANDLE SAW ARE NEVER USED ON THE GROUND PERIOD.

Why you ask? Because they are not designed to be used on the ground. The chain will always be sharp. I think it might just be plain laziness.

 

[Trx250r180]

okay, so in this case, the fact that there is 3 feet of trunk remaining can serve to remedy the cut? and your next cut would be below the current one (of course, duh!) and with a proper wedge cut out, followed by the back cut? Am I understanding your thoughts correctly? Thanks!

yes that's correct ,and it's good you have a normal saw for taking them down ,my saws all have 28 or 32 inch bars on them though so i could actually be out of the way finishing it off ,nipping a little with the tip of the bar at a time till it wanted to go ,i can reach that bottom of the barber chair standing behind the other tree tree with my 32 inch bar ,or if you don't feel safe pull on it with a pickup ,i have a little skid steer i keep a choker and a long chain on that works good for me doing light duty logging and pulling stuff over like that ,i do know everyone in here is afraid to give advise because if someone gets hurt trying the advise that was given ,they would feel horrible ,but without advise i have been given over the years i would have leaned nothing ,you do learn from your mistakes or mistakes of others ,hopefully people reading threads like this learn from it and it saves them from getting hurt ,there's a thousand ways to do something and most of them will work ,you just have to use judgement to your capabilities or experience ,this time you learned the small face didn't work out right,and you posting the pics it shows others what happens and hopefully prevents others from making the same mistakes

 

[northmanlogging]

My thinking is, if you couldn't cut it right the first time, what makes you think you can cut it right the second time.

maybe cause I don't chair em real often, think there have been 2 in the last 3-4 years? And those where really hard leaning alders, that only split about 4 feet up. So yeah I think I can handle em when they don't go to plan.

 

[exSW]

Some of you guys are scaring me talking about using skidsteers,tractors and pickup trucks to finish off some of these situations.It doesn't take much of a tree to drag anyone of those pieces of equipment around or a smaller tree can come right back at you.There's a reason skidders and dozers have cages.The only pickup I've ever tied to a tree was my '64 one ton W300 Dodge that weighs about 11,000 and THAT was with the front mount PTO winch,150" of new 7/16" cable and a snatch block that had me hid around the corner with a BIG tree between me and the hanger.We are talking about felling here.Once you bring in the winches,cables,slings and equipment now we get into rigging which is a whole nuther learning curve.

 

[bucknfeller]

maybe cause I don't chair em real often, think there have been 2 in the last 3-4 years? And those where really hard leaning alders, that only split about 4 feet up. So yeah I think I can handle em when they don't go to plan.

It only takes one...

Some of you guys are scaring me talking about using skidsteers,tractors and pickup trucks to finish off some of these situations.It doesn't take much of a tree to drag anyone of those pieces of equipment around or a smaller tree can come right back at you.There's a reason skidders and dozers have cages.The only pickup I've ever tied to a tree was my '64 one ton W300 Dodge that weighs about 11,000 and THAT was with the front mount PTO winch,150" of new 7/16" cable and a snatch block that had me hid around the corner with a BIG tree between me and the hanger.We are talking about felling here.Once you bring in the winches,cables,slings and equipment now we get into rigging which is a whole nuther learning curve.

I wouldn't recommend hooking your Lawn Boy, or your S10 to anything. The tractors I use for such things around here weigh atleast twice what your Dodge pickup did. Knock on wood, I've never barber chaired one, but we had a big storm come through here last spring that broke a lot of Red Oaks off 12'-20' up. We've had some kind of bore that's only getting the Red, and Pin Oaks, so they were already weak. The ones that broke off clean, I didn't have any problems falling. The ones with the tops hanging off them got pulled down first. I'm much more comfortable with my equipment, and rigging skills than I am with putting myself under a hazard tree with all kinds of funky pressure on it.

 

[exSW]

It only takes one...



I wouldn't recommend hooking your Lawn Boy, or your S10 to anything. The tractors I use for such things around here weigh atleast twice what your Dodge pickup did. Knock on wood, I've never barber chaired one, but we had a big storm come through here last spring that broke a lot of Red Oaks off 12'-20' up. We've had some kind of bore that's only getting the Red, and Pin Oaks, so they were already weak. The ones that broke off clean, I didn't have any problems falling. The ones with the tops hanging off them got pulled down first. I'm much more comfortable with my equipment, and rigging skills than I am with putting myself under a hazard tree with all kinds of funky pressure on it.

The point I'm trying to make is mechanical advantage can work against you fast or faster than for you.I don't care if you have a 9400 deere tied off to that thing when it releases unless you have it directed in a different direction through snatch blocks or whatever there is a good chance it's going to eat you up.Two farms west of me there was a guy thought his 1850 Oliver was big enough...they buried him three days later.I forgot to add I had the truck tied off,I've seen a moderate size tree drag a 550 Case crawler loader around like a toy.

 

[bucknfeller]

Here's a good example of one of those oaks I was talking about. At the top left of the pic, you can see the break. That was hung about 15' up off the ground. Below that, the tree tapered down to a hollow base big enough to walk inside of, with huge flare roots about 5' diameter. It was a dangerous tree, but I wanted this log, so I rigged onto it, and yanked it down with a 140 hp. 20,000 lb. tractor.

 

[Trx250r180]

Some of you guys are scaring me talking about using skidsteers,tractors and pickup trucks to finish off some of these situations.It doesn't take much of a tree to drag anyone of those pieces of equipment around or a smaller tree can come right back at you.There's a reason skidders and dozers have cages.The only pickup I've ever tied to a tree was my '64 one ton W300 Dodge that weighs about 11,000 and THAT was with the front mount PTO winch,150" of new 7/16" cable and a snatch block that had me hid around the corner with a BIG tree between me and the hanger.We are talking about felling here.Once you bring in the winches,cables,slings and equipment now we get into rigging which is a whole nuther learning curve.

its not the size of your machine ,its how you use it ,just have enough rigging to be out of harms way ,i pull logs 30 inches across all the time with a 3000 lb machine