Nice job, never thought about using my contour to do vid's. I hate removing dead trees but I agreed to remove a few at a friends house. Dang emerald ash borrers are killing every ash in our area. 1 at his place is at least 36"+ ATB and it makes me sick to see trees like that dieing all over the place along with our Maples and Beach. CJ
Barber Chair
- Thread starter JanThorCro
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Nice job, never thought about using my contour to do vid's. I hate removing dead trees but I agreed to remove a few at a friends house. Dang emerald ash borrers are killing every ash in our area. 1 at his place is at least 36"+ ATB and it makes me sick to see trees like that dieing all over the place along with our Maples and Beach. CJ
paccity
Addicted to ArboristSite
not burned, black stained from the bar and chain locked for most of the winter.:msp_wink:
treeslayer2003
Addicted to ArboristSite
here is the bottom line, you guys that don,t make a livin doin this if any tree makes you think your not prepared to take it down DON'T TRY IT. you not gonna lose yer job or starve. there is no shame in leaving a tree you don't have to cut. prolly as many different ways to "save out" a tree as there are members on here. that don't mean every body should try them all.
Hedgerow
HACK
not burned, black stained from the bar and chain locked for most of the winter.:msp_wink:
Looks like he was trying to make it go somewhere it didn't want to...
:amazed:
What kind of tree was that?
Neat looking wood...
I don't have any like that..
Our wood is much harder...
But don't move here...
JanThorCro
ArboristSite Operative
I totally agree. Humility will keep you alive longer than an unrestrained ego...
Original poster here. Thanks guys for all your input. I had no idea my thread would become the next big thing and I'm late getting back. My apologies.
Gologit, thank you for your post's, now I have an even better plan as a result. I especially appreciated your "once you've begun a leaner you have to commit to it and make your cuts as quickly as you safely can". I like that as it simplifies things, as you already know what your doing before the 1st cut because your asking me to have a plan for the whole thing, prior to picking up my saw.
You also re-enforced in me, a desire to get input\training from someone that has some great experience. After I purchased my saw I learned as much as I could on Youtube and hands on (I'm still learning and open to learning), but would love to have a day with someone in the woods. I'd even be happy just playing "pick-a-tree" and discussing how I would take it down and then hearing how a professionals would do it, even if said professional had a good laugh at my inexperienced plan...
Just for the record, that same day I had the opportunity to fell a 14" +\- dead Birch with a small lean. All the limbs had fallen off, holes from birds... I used a hammer and sounded the base, it felt solid and sounded reasonably solid. I put in my open face notch, plunge cut the hinge to size (prolly about an inch wide) and then worked the back cut away from the hinge to form the strap. I pulled the saw, cut the strap and walked outta the way. It fell within 2 feet of my target and the base of the tree (in this case) was solid. The bottom 10' or so was also solid, but most of the rest snapped into 4' chunks on impact. (Punky)
Thanks for the replies, I appreciate the humor and your expertise.
If I can't safely fall a tree without unacceptable risk to myself or others, including buildings I walk away, if that means walking away from the entire job so be it, there are plenty of trees to fall and plenty of jobs to be had. I also tend to spend about 30% of my falling time within spitting distance of houses/roads/power lines etc. I've turned down plenty of work, and will turn down more in the future, and I get paid to do this. Which is part of the reason I'm still doing this, cause I'm not dead or in jail.
There are many things you could do to get any tree on the ground some safe some very dangerous, even the "safe" methods have considerable risk involved, knowing this and knowing what your doing is what allows the professionals to live long and prosperous lives. Any hack can wack a tree down with a hatchet, putting it where you want it safely is an entirely different story.
I watched all 19 minutes of it. Thought it was interesting.
I wonder what the record is for a barber chair. I had one that lightning had busted up, close to three feet diameter white oak. I made about as much of a notch as you could make considering how bad it was leaning and I could tell it was split three ways. I made the back cut until I could see the kerf start opening. Went over and sat down on a log. Probably took about ten minutes with it creaking and cracking every now and then. Finally broke off about 30 feet up, slid back off and took down a couple of ten or twelve inch diameter trees behind it. Should have had a recording. If it didn't fall til the next wind storm didn't really matter to me. Well, I guess it could have killed a cow. Burns good.
woodchuck357
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have no idea what the biggest tree to chair is, but if the 16 foot tall oak described in the original post actually chaired it must hold the record for the smallest!
Philip Wheelock
Finis Origine Pendet
RandyMac
Stiff Member
Can't find any mention of a 16 foot tall oak in the original post.
The guy is a double tapered item, just step over it.
millbilly
ArboristSite Guru
When that guy started his back cut, I found myself moving my head away from the computer screen. Must be habit, WTF.
MCW
Somebody's talking crap here & it ain't the tree!
I still remember that other thread a while back where this peanut had an awesome barberchair and some guy posted saying it was a successful fall because nobody got hurt. I still laugh at that...
Bore cuts don't always come in from the side like you're probably thinking. A 12" trunk leaves enough room for most cuts unless you're using a bow saw
Bore cuts don't always come in from the side like you're probably thinking. A 12" trunk leaves enough room for most cuts unless you're using a bow saw
Undy
ArboristSite Member
Good advice. I had a big oak chair about 13 feet up. It was maybe 30" across, and had a lean. It popped back about 6', but it also went sideways about 8' or so, right towards me.
As soon as it started breaking, I heard the trunk ripping apart over the roar of the saw. The center of that oak tree was sort of undulating. Weirdest thing I'd ever seen! I pulled that saw and ran like hell. It only missed me by a foot or so, and my feet hurt for weeks from running so hard.
Apparently, somebody is fast enough to get out of the way, since I'm here typing today. But in all honesty, I'm just damn lucky, and I shudder to think about repeating it. Everybody I was working with thought I'd bought the farm.
FYI: Heres a link to a previous post which better describes the scenario: http://www.arboristsite.com/arboricultural-injuries-fatalities/228117.htm
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apn73
ArboristSite Operative
This has been a very interesting and entertaining thread. A lot of good information, thanks for all the contributions. I bought a book a couple 2-3 years ago called "The Homeowner's Guide To The Chainsaw"by Brian Ruth, who is a contributor in the carving forum and is the first place I saw mention of AS. It's a good read and he has section of the book called "Knowing When To Call In A Professional", the most important section of the book other than the chainsaw safety section. Just this morning on my way to work I see trees leaning in towards the road or power lines and say to myself, "wouldn't wanne try to fell that tree!" For the backyard hacks and Harvey Homeowners like me I recommend Mr. Ruth's book, should be required reading before you run a saw for the first time.
A point worth mentioning. When Mr. Ruth points out AS in the back of his book he mentions the Homeowner Helper forum as a place to get good advice from professionals. Several posts within this thread highlighted the fact that just because you get advice from a senior member (of which I am now considered one, and that is scarry) doesn't mean that that person knows what they are doing and beware. We're all responsible for our own actions, I get that, but it's very scary that people are givng advice to novices that could very easily get them killed. I would like to think that I am smart enough to know my limitations, but that doensn't mean all of us are.
Sincerely,
Adam.
A point worth mentioning. When Mr. Ruth points out AS in the back of his book he mentions the Homeowner Helper forum as a place to get good advice from professionals. Several posts within this thread highlighted the fact that just because you get advice from a senior member (of which I am now considered one, and that is scarry) doesn't mean that that person knows what they are doing and beware. We're all responsible for our own actions, I get that, but it's very scary that people are givng advice to novices that could very easily get them killed. I would like to think that I am smart enough to know my limitations, but that doensn't mean all of us are.
Sincerely,
Adam.
I arrived on a landing and after we were done with formalities, mentioned that I was cutting the alder that was bent over into the roads and had to be quick because they popped. These are small alder, about 6 inches diameter, a few bigger, a few smaller.
I got invited to "come over here and sit down". I got a lecture. And, as I expected, the small ones will get you too.
That's why I'm an advocate of long bars on saws no matter the size of what you are cutting.
You can't do a bore cut on small alder, but a Coos Bay can work, or hiding behind another tree and cutting--another reason for a long bar, sharp chain, and fast saw.
Alder is strange, and is extremely prone to splitting when the temperature is freezing. I found that out too.
MCW
Somebody's talking crap here & it ain't the tree!
Well written. Unfortunately some people can get away with not knowing what they are doing for quite a while and give themselves (and sadly others) the illusion that they do actually know what they're doing. Then one day it all goes horribly wrong.
I had a friend come out falling with me one day and I could tell he thought what I was doing was easy.
He tells me a fortnight later that he went home, whipped out his Poulan, and dropped a tree straight on the neighbour's fence. I just shook my head and after that I'm very wary about who comes out with me because sometimes what looks easy actually isn't. It only looks easy because I've done it 1000's of times.
The classic is reading all the falling manuals and having great theoretical knowledge yet still having no idea how to line cuts up or where your bar tip is pointing and cutting straight through the hinge. Or cutting under the lean, getting your saw pinched as the tree comes towards you, and worrying more about your saw etc etc etc. The list goes on and on.
I did have a nasty barberchair once though
apn73
ArboristSite Operative
I like feller-bunchers, they're:cool2: But I'm sure they get people killed too, especially in the hands of the inexperienced.
Clean up all debris around the area you are working in all directions in case things don't go as planned. If you get squashed like a bug because you got tripped up on something it was poor planning on your part. Neighbor has a nice artificial leg because of it.
A couple weeks ago our Pastor had a lesson and he mentioned a mans' thought process of "If you want it done right, do it yourself". As we left church I said "Steve, if you want it done right, call a professional." After 40 plus years in the tree business I've seen too many things go wrong by people thinking it was easy. I don't like bore cuts, don't use them, unless I'm carving an arm chair in a stump. I put a tag line on almost every thing, even leaners, and I do like big sharp saws that cut fast. I'd rather use my 100 cc 1050 with a 24" bar to drop an 18" Oak than my MS 290 with an 18" bar. People that cut an inch, walk around and look, cut another inch walk around and look, scare me. Safe is one thing, tentative is another. Once the cut is started it's pretty much too late to walk around and start thinking. I do it my way, others do it their way, both might work. I've still have all of my parts and no big scars, Joe.
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