Barber Chair
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ya sure you didn't go to the "Gump School of falling"
HuskStihl
Chairin'em for the sound
I aspire to someday be "average", I'd even be pretty happy with below average! I also vote bypass all the way, anvil sucks!
Apology
My bad, Murph. I got you mixed up with Murphy4Trees and tailored my reply to fit him. I didn't mean to slam you like that.
Hang on while I dredge up some excuses...Okay, Senior Moment, how's that?
I reported the post and gave myself an infraction.
My bad, Murph. I got you mixed up with Murphy4Trees and tailored my reply to fit him. I didn't mean to slam you like that.
Hang on while I dredge up some excuses...Okay, Senior Moment, how's that?
I reported the post and gave myself an infraction.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
As always, there is way too much thinking put on fancy ass cuts. Over thinking the details leads to second guessing, which leads anxiety, which leads to mistakes.
It is as simple as this...put the gunning cut in deep, until the tree tries to move forward and grab your bar, use a steep angle on the undercut, then nip the corners or use the Coos and saw the back cut as fast as you can. Oh yeah, be ready to run.
It is as simple as this...put the gunning cut in deep, until the tree tries to move forward and grab your bar, use a steep angle on the undercut, then nip the corners or use the Coos and saw the back cut as fast as you can. Oh yeah, be ready to run.
Karl Robbers
ArboristSite Operative
That's exactly why we have gone down the route we have in Australia. As an example, I am the Brigade Chef of my local Volunteer Fire Brigade. I am qualified in non commercial trim and cross cut, but not falling. Therefore, while performing my duties I am only allowed to cut fallen trees and logs but not fall trees. If a dangerous tree needs falling we have designated fallers that can be called in or if someone has the qualification from outside the fire service and it is current, they can fall the tree. I admit this is frustrating sometimes as I can fall quite competently, but the fact remains that while I am "on the clock" and covered by their insurances etc, I must work only in the areas in which I am qualified. The up side of this is that by living by these rules, the people that watch a video on youtube and think they can have a crack are prevented and therefore protected from their own over exuberance.
Can anyone tell me how the liability/insurance issue pans out in America? The impression abroad is that Americans are quite litigious and therefore I would have thought that organisations would have gone to great lengths to cover their butts. For example, what happens if a volunteer is injured while volunteering and cannot attend their regular paying job? Is there insurance that covers their income or is it considered just bad luck? Who covers medical expenses?
I truly mean no offence, as all countries do things differently, I just wonder how it pans out. Particularly when performing high risk work such as chainsaw operations particularly falling where the stakes are high.
A modded 066 with a 20" bar snips those little 12" stems off so quickly the tree top only moves less than a foot before the bar reaches the hinge.
Philip Wheelock
Finis Origine Pendet
I figured you were referring to him. Studied up on his "vertical snap cut" for tripping hung trees on youtube last year. Yeah, and I'm still in one piece. Only thing he might have mentioned in the video is if you make that cut on a tree hung up downhill, the trunk can swing downhill like a pendulum until it's standing straight up when it hits something and rebounds. Lucky for me, the spar stayed hung, but I was out of there in a hurry. That's how I remember Murphy4Trees.
woodchuck357
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yeah, run like hell cutting a 12 inch diameter 16 foot tall sapling.
exSW
ArboristSite Guru
I was bounceing around youtube and saw that excrement,you actually tried it?I even got two home use firewood cutters to watch it and they said WTF.
Philip Wheelock
Finis Origine Pendet
Yeah. Bad idea. Went back right away to a technique that makes a hinge to keep control of the fall.
paccity
Addicted to ArboristSite
:msp_rolleyes:opcorn:
opcorn:
HuskStihl
Chairin'em for the sound
Sir,
I have shared this Internet thing with you for a while and have enjoyed your company. I think we should probably agree to disagree. Please have the courtesy to keep this between us, but when I am clearing land I will routinely just simply cut small trees off at the stump and walk to the next one and do it again. I have a pretty strong saw which seems to accomplish this quickly with little drama. The problem is what you consider to be a small tree, what I consider to be small tree, and what a guy who just bought a disposable saw at lowes considers to be a small, safe tree may be very different. I am an experienced (old) amateur, what I am comfortable with is my business, but I do not generally advocate a non-face method to fall 12" leaners.
Respectfully,
Jon
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I will try
As a member of the volunteer fire department the town or county would be paying into workmans compensation insurance on you. By design one isn't supposed to sue if a claim is a workmans comp claim but in practice it doesn't appear to be that way. Some parts of the country town is pretty meaningless and it is county. I am sure city counts if you live in one of them. While not paid directly any injury and subsequent disability would be on the public dime so to speak but through insurance, at least until you sue and win showing negligence.....Kind of.......... I am trying to answer just kind of a general way I see things.
The original poster put Massachusetts in the location of his profile. They(we are lead to believe this) have the 70 page version of what is coming on the federal level for the medical bill. I am eight tenths of a mile from the Massachusetts state line and don't want to type any more.
The long term disability aspect for a maiming (volunteer in this case) gets dumped on the social security system. Forest accidents are miniscule compared to the mental health and new disabling diseases, distorted babies that are saved and put on it for life, vehicular accidents, criminal assault injuries, etc, that keep getting added while the talk is just about the changing demographics of the aging baby boom generation. Even the workman's compensation might just go 20 years and then dump that on social security in some instances not my specialty.
fran
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woodchuck357
Addicted to ArboristSite
Any technique I recommend will never require a speedy saw
most can be safely done at cross cut saw speeds, or even with a crosscut. Major exceptions are bore cuts, Of course they require a chain saw, but never a fast cutting one.
If I were to do the tree the OP described with a cross cut, I would start on the lean side cut in until the kerf started to close, tap in a small wedge on either side just behind the back of the saw then complete the cut out the back. The tree is going to go with the lean so as long as you don't get under it there is no way it can get on you. On a big tree the holding wood at the back could snap early and possibly feed you your saw.
most can be safely done at cross cut saw speeds, or even with a crosscut. Major exceptions are bore cuts, Of course they require a chain saw, but never a fast cutting one.
If I were to do the tree the OP described with a cross cut, I would start on the lean side cut in until the kerf started to close, tap in a small wedge on either side just behind the back of the saw then complete the cut out the back. The tree is going to go with the lean so as long as you don't get under it there is no way it can get on you. On a big tree the holding wood at the back could snap early and possibly feed you your saw.
Huh?
Karl Robbers
ArboristSite Operative
Thanks for that. Occupational safety interests me because I wear several hats. BC of my local fire brigade, Health and safety Representative for my crew at work and finally as a worker myself.
Our workers compensation runs out after a similar period and then it falls back on the social security system, of course, if gross negligence was involved then there may well be a compensation payment involved as well.
Our workers comp is also designed to avoid legal actions except in the case of gross negligence or malicious acts. Is there generally a requirement that to perform a given task, you must hold a certificate of competence? It would seem that there would be many opportunities for the well meaning to enter the Darwin Awards otherwise.
Uh are you high? Chances are a cross cut would get pinched long before you ever got deep enough to tap in a wedge. And not taking some kind of notch out of the face is asking for it to chair, the whole idea is to relieve pressure, a kerf face only delays the pressure for as long as it takes to close the gap, giving the tree time to gain some momentum and thereby increasing said pressure.
And fast saws are a requirement when falling timber not just for productivity but for safety, if I can cut through the back before it starts to move while your still there playing with your misery whip it means I can get to running before anything unplanned starts to fall on my hat that much sooner.
And besides I would use an ax to create my undercut on a leaner not a hand saw, ax's tend to not get stuck so easy, and they have that big lever on the end so you can wiggle em out if they do get pinched. That's assuming that I didn't have a chainsaw...
And cutting all the way through one side, seriously, take it you've never seen one go over sideways? or misjudged the lean?
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J
jrcat
Guest
Maybe a word of wisdom.. Your method is going to continue to get you roasted here, if you continue on with it. Posting it out in the open in a public forum is probably not so smart. There is many young and inexperienced readers here that just might take you advice and screw up big time and either end up DEAD or mauled. If you want that on your shoulders , then by all means post away and continue to get flak for it. A 12'' "sapling" as you call it has enough weight to KILL. Last I checked DEAD is a permanent medical condition. So by all means post your dribble, watching you get flak for it is almost entertaining...
This is probably the worst piece of advice I've seen lately.
Newbies, and not-so-newbies, please don't try this.
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