Begin pruning from ground using pole saw or wait until able to climb?

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BillyB

ArboristSite Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
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Location
Small Woods NE of St. Paul, MN
I'm in the process of reclaiming a few acres of a wild woodland of mature oaks. I think it would be beneficial to prune dead limbs of the oaks. There are alot of oaks and alot of dead limbs.

My pruning tactics to date have involved employing the tallest pole saws I could find on the parts of the trees I can reach with them. I purchased the Silky Hayauchi (21') manual pole saw and the echo PPT 280 (17') power pole saw. Beyond that I plan to take a climbing course next spring (2019) so as to access higher parts of the taller trees.

I've really just begun to prune. After pruning the lower parts of a few oaks with the pole saws I'm beginning to have second thoughts about my strategy. I'm reaching 25' with the Hayauchi. It slices off the limbs quite well I think but still there is often a lot of tree left above where I can reach. I don't know much about climbing yet but still I wonder if I'm not just making my eventual climbing job more difficult. How handy would it be to have these lower limbs that I'm removing for stepping on to move my butt up the trunk? Granted, they are dead but still I suspect they're reasonably supportive where they meet the trunk. Won't there be a lot more rope climbing before reaching the lower branches without them?

Though I think the trees would benefit from from having their dead branches pruned as soon as possible, I don't want to make my job more difficult than it need be. Not knowing much about climbing yet, there is surely a chance that my pole pruning should not effect the difficulty of climbing later. Alternatively, I could forgo the pole pruner on trees I will have to climb and prune them up close when I eventually do, if that would be easier.

Appreciate your thoughts on how best to approach this work, whether to pole prune now and follow up with climbing later or forgo pole pruning on the taller trees altogether and wait until I climb to prune. When commenting, it would help if you would let me know from what perspective you come and if you climb or not.
 
Just for cleaning up a "wild area". No..I wouldn't. I have used a pole in a tree just a very few times when it was unsafe to get to a limb that needed to come off. the 21' saws are not the ones to use if it can be avoided. Very tough to use in a tree.

Pruning oaks in MN....you up to date on oak wilt info? (don't pruning during growing season).
 
From someone that used to climb poles and work with hot sticks, 25kv, etc... I would say it could be done, but probably not the best idea. I don't feel an extendable powered pole saw would be very manageable and you could just about lean out to the same area of the limb that a non-extendable powered pole saw would reach.

As to a clean tree or a tree full of limbs... A clean tree you can climb with your safety wrapped; with limbs, you are going to have to climb and safety of once you get to working height or safety, un-safety, and re-safety as you go and return... Tree guys like to repel out of the tree; utility workers don't have that option...

Climbing a clean tree with a safety in place; a non-powered non-extendable pole saw could be balanced across the safety and used to some extent which may give you another 4-8 feet of reach... Is it worth it; only you can decide... How much stuff (weight) do you want to carry with you up the tree???
 
Just for cleaning up a "wild area".
Please note that my intention is to make this area less wild.
No..I wouldn't. I have used a pole in a tree just a very few times when it was unsafe to get to a limb that needed to come off. the 21' saws are not the ones to use if it can be avoided. Very tough to use in a tree.
I wasn't really asking whether to use my pole saw in a tree but admittedly, it is another question that I've been holding in the back of my mind. At the risk of necessitating a new thread, what pole saw do you think more appropriate to use in a tree? Are you aware that the Sikly Hayauchi collapses to about 7'?

Pruning oaks in MN....you up to date on oak wilt info? (don't pruning during growing season).
Yes, I plan to stop pruning the oaks by the end of March and will not start again until next Novemeber. Thanks for checking!
 
As to a clean tree or a tree full of limbs... A clean tree you can climb with your safety wrapped; with limbs, you are going to have to climb and safety of once you get to working height or safety, un-safety, and re-safety as you go and return... Tree guys like to repel out of the tree; utility workers don't have that option...

Climbing a clean tree with a safety in place; a non-powered non-extendable pole saw could be balanced across the safety and used to some extent which may give you another 4-8 feet of reach... Is it worth it; only you can decide... How much stuff (weight) do you want to carry with you up the tree???
If I interpret your response correctly, sounds like you believe the clean tree and therefore pruning before climbing to be the easier sequence option.
 
....
I wasn't really asking whether to use my pole saw in a tree but admittedly, it is another question that I've been holding in the back of my mind. At the risk of necessitating a new thread, what pole saw do you think more appropriate to use in a tree? Are you aware that the Sikly Hayauchi collapses to about 7'?
....
I am aware it collapses. It is also is pretty heavy to have in a tree. If you only want the 7', I'd pull the smallest piece out and just use that.
 
First off wild trees really don't need our help shedding limbs and if not done proper can even harm them. So you need to ask yourself is a one time class and then risking injury to fix a non-issue worth this risk. I have been climbing professionally since 1983 and many here have my time beat. I can say I have had several close calls through my many years climbing. I have been spared by having a fore person and daily training to which there is really no substitute. Anyway just my thoughts for your topic.
 
First off wild trees really don't need our help shedding limbs and if not done proper can even harm them.
Why then do all the books I've read on pruning say that dead or diseased limbs create a portal for that disease, typically some sort of fungus, to spread from the limb to the trunk and consequently infect and weaken the tree ultimately shortening its life? I'm confused about the apparent contradiction of recommendations and would appreciate it if you would speak to this.

Just to be clear, these are trees that have been wild their whole lives on land around my house that I hope to make more human friendly. It is certainly a large task with risk of injury as you point out. The main reason I have been considering it is to improve the health of my woods based mainly upon my readings. If I'm not doing them any good and perhaps, even harm as you say, I could easily forgo it.
 
Why then do all the books I've read on pruning say that dead or diseased limbs create a portal for that disease, typically some sort of fungus, to spread from the limb to the trunk and consequently infect and weaken the tree ultimately shortening its life? I'm confused about the apparent contradiction of recommendations and would appreciate it if you would speak to this.

Just to be clear, these are trees that have been wild their whole lives on land around my house that I hope to make more human friendly. It is certainly a large task with risk of injury as you point out. The main reason I have been considering it is to improve the health of my woods based mainly upon my readings. If I'm not doing them any good and perhaps, even harm as you say, I could easily forgo it.


primum non nocere "first, do no harm."

arboricultural pruning intervention within a forest ecology is not really required. sure you can do it but trees know how to look after them self & are ideally in balance with flora and fauna.. Its work within urban locations that understanding of pruning techniques and decay response really helps the trees and persons & property below them.. If you wish to detail - tidy prune up woodland trees your methodology is mostly right ( discounting canopy habitat loss & removal ) much now depends on your energy ability and resources,, as for climbing isolated forest trees id not be doing this alone & even with basic ground work best let some know your whereabouts..
 
primum non nocere "first, do no harm."
The Hippocratic oath is always good advice which I will do my best to keep in mind. A similar dictum I try to follow: "When in doubt, don't cut. I can always come back again later."
arboricultural pruning intervention within a forest ecology is not really required. sure you can do it but trees know how to look after them self & are ideally in balance with flora and fauna. Its work within urban locations that understanding of pruning techniques and decay response really helps the trees and persons & property below them.
This confuses me as your statements seem to contradict one another. Thanks to a recommendation I've received on this site, I'm now familiar with CODIT but still, do proper pruning techniques help trees fight decay or not?
If you wish to detail - tidy prune up woodland trees your methodology is mostly right
If you call trimming the dead wood within reach of a person of novice means "detailing", that's what I'm considering. Some of these limbs are a good size though. I think I'd draw the line short of crown thinning and reduction pruning if that's what you mean.
( discounting canopy habitat loss & removal)
Yes, I'd like to retain some dead wood for wildlife/ecosystem utility but right now there's probably more than the critters need and I'm unclear as to how much it would be good to leave. I'd suppose that the answer would be unique to my ecosystem but I wonder if any expert insights might be available for help with arriving at a minimum guideline. Any thoughts?
much now depends on your energy ability and resources,
Granted, its more than I could afford to hire out which is the constraint that has led me to a DIY approach. Thought I'd chip away at it through the seasons over a few years. I kind of enjoy being in the woods.
as for climbing isolated forest trees id not be doing this alone & even with basic ground work best let some know your whereabouts..
Good advice that I will work on, thanks! One neighbor has expressed interest. Another has some climbing experience and personally, I've rapelled off tallish buildings for window washing. I realize trees are different but I'm not totally green.
 
do proper pruning techniques help trees fight decay or not?

Yes they do,, however in natural systems the wise tree just take care of it but before we intervene with our saws we need to understand trees own processes and response to wounds and decay and this drills down to individuals of species as they all much or slightly differ in mode & method of reaction.

to my ecosystem but I wonder if any expert insights might be available for help with arriving at a minimum guideline. Any thoughts?

very hard to measure and quantify if the squirrels & birds move out and insect & disease begins to devour the canopy you may have tipped over the balance..



enjoy some reading when your done for the day

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/TEP.html

In nature, there are two major types of stress. The most life - threatening type deals with the second law of energy flow. The law states that every system must have a continuous supply of energy to remain in an orderly state - healthy. As energy input decreases, the likelihood of operating near the limits increases. Call it primary stress. Because trees are living systems, they must maintain a continuous flow of energy. Trees burn glucose to release energy to power the forces of life. This is the same for humans and other life forms. When energy begins to become limiting, the system begins to operate near its genetically designed limits.


When one teaches, two learn” Robert Heinlein
 
Yes they do,, however in natural systems the wise tree just take care of it but before we intervene with our saws we need to understand trees own processes and response to wounds and decay and this drills down to individuals of species as they all much or slightly differ in mode & method of reaction.
Thanks for your explanation! You have heightened my sensitivity and lowered my confidence.

enjoy some reading when your done for the day
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/TEP.html
Will do, thanks!
 
'Few acres"

How many is 'a few'. Might be worthwhile to buy a used bucket truck?
 
Yeah, a used bucket truck would be nice but then I'd have to build a road as well.

There are small buckets mounted atop 4x4 vehicles. The local utility company has a few mounted on Land Rover Defender's but I've seen them mounted on Toyota Hi-Lux and MB Unimog U400 chassis as well.
They are mostly used for power/telephone line maintenance in areas where ordinary boom trucks cannot get.
There are also small booms mounted atop tracked chassis, but I don't know if they are sold in the US. Here is a typical example:

https://www.hinowa.com/en/products/...-meters-lightlift-series/lightlift-14-72-iiis

You can usually rent them by the week but some places will rent them by the day as well.
 
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