Chain Brakes for Sissies Struck a Nerve

[Gwiz]

OK guys my first ever post has not only struck a nerve, but completely exposed my ignorance. Sorry.
You are right I have not ran a saw enough, and I have never used one with a chain brake. I am; however, interested in maintaining the best safety possible while I work.
I'm not sure I completely understand how the chain brakes work. I assumed when I let off the throttle the brakes would be applied and stop the chain (like the blade on lots of new miter saws). You have mentioned that they are manually applied: can someone explain a little better?
I did not ever intend to imply that someone should disable a chain brake. I guess I was just being a smart as when I should have just asked a simple question. What I was really getting at was wether or not High Quality saws and (Industrial Quality saws) had chain brakes. You answered my question.
Thank you.
James Martin

 

[clearance]

No big deal, welcome to the site. I feel that some use chain brakes (as well as low kickback chain) as a excuse for not using saws properly. Chainbrakes are a last resort, if your chainbrake goes off often (and it was not bumped), then you are doing something wrong.

 

[andrethegiant70]

Are you kidding? These chainsaw types are pretty hardened by now...they've taken years of crap for their bizarre chainsaw obsession. If you are anywhere NEAR as wierd as they are, you're still pretty wierd.

Chainbrakes are automatically activated (hopefully) during kickback events where the chain gets stopped suddenly. They can also be activated manually if you are (for instance) going to set the saw down for a moment. Don't disable them, they are a good feature and you'll reduce the value of your saw if you do.

 

[huskydave]

no harm done. To answer your question most chainbrakes activate when the chainbrake handle in front of the saw gets pushed towards or away from the operator (usualy away from the operator) depending on the saw. It then stops the chain from spinning and hopefully prevents injury. I know people that have been injured while cutting trees so I take safety matters personal as do others on AS. They are not for sissies they are to save lives and they do. I would take extra precaution if you are using an older saw without a chainbrake such as shut the saw down between cuts beware of the tip of the bar at all times and take your time while cutting. I would rather be safe than ignorant.

 

[Bowtie]

It is good that you thought about the issue enough to post a thread about it.

The chainbrake on my saws have saved my hide (pun intended) a couple times, and I will always keep the chainbrake operational. In fact, my 028 project was made in that transition phase, and has the provision for a chain brake, and as soon as I get it running again (if I ever do ), I will be buying the kit to put a chain brake on it.

 

[spacemule]

no harm done. To answer your question most chainbrakes activate when the chainbrake handle in front of the saw gets pushed towards or away from the operator (usualy away from the operator) depending on the saw. It then stops the chain from spinning and hopefully prevents injury. I know people that have been injured while cutting trees so I take safety matters personal as do others on AS. They are not for sissies they are to save lives and they do. I would take extra precaution if you are using an older saw without a chainbrake such as shut the saw down between cuts beware of the tip of the bar at all times and take your time while cutting. I would rather be safe than ignorant.

Yes, this is true, but misses a part of the reason for activation. Yes, the handle being pushed forward activates the chain brake, but you didn't say what pushes the handle forward. Naturally, the operator's hand can push it forward, but the majority of modern saw brakes are activated by inertia--the weight of the brake handle activates the brake when the saw is lurched from kickback.

As a test, set a block of wood on end and hold your saw over it. Let the saw drop by holding onto the rear handle while releasing the front handle. Hold the rear handle so the bar tip hits the wood at about a 45 degree angle. This should engage the brake with no contact with the brake handle.

 

[Woodie]

...most chainbrakes activate when the chainbrake handle in front of the saw gets pushed towards or away from the operator (usualy away from the operator) depending on the saw.

None of my saws have ever had a break which could be activated by pushing the brake handle toward the operator...I would be curious to know which saws did that.

And to add to other information already posted, the brake handle is also designed to activate (hopefully!) in a kickback situation by being hit by the user's left forearm/wrist. This, of course, is only the case if you are in the bucking position (LEAVE THAT!). If you're felling, or otherwise holding the saw with your left hand on the starter side of the saw, it is only the intertia that will activate the brake.

 

[joesawer]

Yes, this is true, but misses a part of the reason for activation. Yes, the handle being pushed forward activates the chain brake, but you didn't say what pushes the handle forward. Naturally, the operator's hand can push it forward, but the majority of modern saw brakes are activated by inertia--the weight of the brake handle activates the brake when the saw is lurched from kickback.

As a test, set a block of wood on end and hold your saw over it. Let the saw drop by holding onto the rear handle while releasing the front handle. Hold the rear handle so the bar tip hits the wood at about a 45 degree angle. This should engage the brake with no contact with the brake handle.

I am not comfortable with this advice at all. It sounds like a really good way to get hurt.
Oregon Engineer posted a video of a machine that tested kick back being used. He said that the induced kick back some times broke the machine.
I would never intentionally cause kick back in such an uncontrolled manner.

 

[Jacob J.]

I think space was meaning with the saw OFF, and just letting natural inertia and kinetic energy activate the chain brake.

I'm all for chain brakes on modern saws, if used responsibly. We get a lot of government saws in our shop with broken clutches and sometimes broken crankshafts because their operators constantly engage the chain brake while the saw is still in high RPM. They do this instinctively and because they think it makes them look 'tough' and experienced, but in reality it exposes their inexperience.

Now that all being said, my family purchased a new MS-361 for my grandpa, a retired timber cutter, and the first thing he did was promptly remove all of the chain brake components to lighten the saw. Second thing he did was open up the muffler and modify the air filter. Them old guys, you just can't change them.

 

[Woodie]

I am not comfortable with this advice at all. It sounds like a really good way to get hurt.
Oregon Engineer posted a video of a machine that tested kick back being used. He said that the induced kick back some times broke the machine.
I would never intentionally cause kick back in such an uncontrolled manner.

Uhhhhh.......not real sure how to say this, but the technique spacemule is talking about won't cause any kickback whatsoever.

It's perfectly safe, and is actually recommended by the mfgrs.

 

[PB]

I am not comfortable with this advice at all. It sounds like a really good way to get hurt.
Oregon Engineer posted a video of a machine that tested kick back being used. He said that the induced kick back some times broke the machine.
I would never intentionally cause kick back in such an uncontrolled manner.

With the saw off. His advice comes directly from any operators manual.

 

[joesawer]

I think space was meaning with the saw OFF, and just letting natural inertia and kinetic energy activate the chain brake.

I'm all for chain brakes on modern saws, if used responsibly. We get a lot of government saws in our shop with broken clutches and sometimes broken crankshafts because their operators constantly engage the chain brake while the saw is still in high RPM. They do this instinctively and because they think it makes them look 'tough' and experienced, but in reality it exposes their inexperience.

Now that all being said, my family purchased a new MS-361 for my grandpa, a retired timber cutter, and the first thing he did was promptly remove all of the chain brake components to lighten the saw. Second thing he did was open up the muffler and modify the air filter. Them old guys, you just can't change them.

Yes, reading his post agian I think you are right.
With the saw off this is a good test.

 

[ropensaddle]

Now can we test chaps :monkey:

 

[newguy18]

Keep the chain brake on.After having a saw kickback and hit me in the head I swear by chainbrakes if it weren't for chainbrakes I'd have a nice scar across my face instead of a small nick above my eyebrow.I only disabled one brake and that was because I was coverting a chain saw to a concrete saw.

 

[huskydave]

woodie I had an Stihl 056 magII that activated when the handle was pushed towards me forward was off position. This was an older saw. It may have been broken but im 99% sure it was forward to release the brake band.

 

[ropensaddle]

woodie I had an Stihl 056 magII that activated when the handle was pushed towards me forward was off position. This was an older saw. It may have been broken but im 99% sure it was forward to release the brake band.

It would be a stihl:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[huskydave]

Some newer stihls have a third brake installed that activates when the rear handle is released and stops the chain from coasting.

 

[Lakeside53]

woodie I had an Stihl 056 magII that activated when the handle was pushed towards me forward was off position. This was an older saw. It may have been broken but im 99% sure it was forward to release the brake band.

LOLOL.. not only broken, but assembled wrong. I'm not even sure how you'd do that...

 

[huskydave]

That would explain it. It never worked properly had a hair trigger and yes engaged backwards for some reason. I assumed the old ones were designed that way. hahaha I gave that saw away a while back. It was a heavy old bugger but I couldn't stall it out even with an 8pin sprocket the torque was awesome.

 

[turnkey4099]

Keep the chain brake on.After having a saw kickback and hit me in the head I swear by chainbrakes if it weren't for chainbrakes I'd have a nice scar across my face instead of a small nick above my eyebrow.I only disabled one brake and that was because I was coverting a chain saw to a concrete saw.

If you keep it "on", there is zero chance of getting hurt...or cutting anything:greenchainsaw:

Ok, ok. I know what you meant 'don't take if off the saw' but I had to post something to justify being on here at this rediculous time of day.

Harry K