Climber vs. grounder

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Climber & ground

  • The ground is there to get what I put down out of the way period, just stay out of my way.

    Votes: 3 9.1%
  • I work so they can work efficiently.

    Votes: 30 90.9%

  • Total voters
    33
Brock

I agree whole-heartedly! We try to run an all climbing crew... no "just" ground guys, even new hires have to have some climbing experience.. I find a climber on the ground really knows what is coming next and can anticipate far better then even an experienced ground-only crew. Not sure if this is finiancially the best way (always close to bankrupt it seems!) but it sure seems to work safety/procifiency wise.
 
I believe that a poor ground crew can make even the most experienced climber look like crap. Just the same though, the climber and his groundmen must work together to form that well oiled tree machine. Just my .02

Tony
 
Each are there to make each others job easier in the zones that they cover. And ya can bust your butt and brain sometimes to make it easier on everyone, jsut to have someone show ya they can drag butt or screw something else up, to neutralize all your efforts. If not end up worse off.

But, then an experienced ground/rope man can talk a new climber thru some stuff; and expand him/her. Especially when usual teacher/climber is off doing something; and a fresh person is talking to new climber; pacing them through what leadman has carved out that they can handle topgether. Change of pace and personality of who is 'driving' new climber; giving different angle of growth and understanding i think.
 
imo everyone should start off dragging and raking and learning to make a tidy site, before they even get into a tree. If they can stick a few weeks down below learning and appreciating what happens above, they will make better climbers in the long term. The quitters will get hacked off and clear off before you invest your hard earned $ or £'s in teaching them the art of climbing.
 
I spent three years on the ground......you really learn to respect that position.As it has been said before,your groundies can make you look good or bad.
 
it's very important to have a thorough training starting as a rake pilot (like NYFinest) before beginning as aclimber. it almost seems silly to be pointing it out. and there is nothing like having an experienced climber doing your ground work- though it is an unusual scenario...he's better able to understand what's going on above than some one who is not experienced in the tree. it is a great luxury to have some1 down there who can anticipate your needs and give you that extra perspective that only another climber can.
 
Paying my dues on the ground was the best thing that happened to me.you get to learn the business in and out from the best rake techniques to roping those one shot deals to mauvering and operating equipment(and maintaining)to learning proper cutting to getting a feel for customers.Then all you have to do is what you watched that guy above you do forever-get em down!!!Oh,and you're never too good to do ground work.I know some people strap those spikes on and thier ego BALLOONS......
 
i work many tree jobs solo. clean up is usually very enjoyable work. its the zen of the whole process- thechi...the only times i didnt enjoy ground work is when the climber just made a big ol honkin pile and paid no head whatsoever to the cleanup process (most of the time because he wasnt the one who was gonna have to do it- prima donnas). i dont think ive ever met a climber who wasnt a little bit of an egomaniac- my self included. and from what ive seen that also holds true for the guys on heretoo. but i also have never met a climber i didnt like- figures huh. the important thing is to not let the ego get out of control. to be able to realize when its starting to get the best of you. ultimately, pride cant do anything but get in the way...
 
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A groundie quitting is much easier to replace than a climber.

In my experience I've found that climbers become the leader of the crew, once they work themselves into this position they get harder to manage, and if they are the only climber on the crew they become more demanding ... you could almost say holding the business to ransom.

I've always tried to have more than one climber on the crew simply to protect the business from quitters. Climbers do make good groundies but they tend to dislike the lugging and dragging. They're above that. They like to be the ropey.

As a boss I see they are always confronted with the comparison of what they earn vs what the job was worth. For instance if they get paid $250 to bring down a $2000 tree and it's done by lunch they start getting big ideas. That's probably why most climbers have their own business, but what if you own a tree business and don't climb? ... it's a very tough road. Slowly you pay them more and more and more to the point that they're better off than the boss without the headaches.

Some companies here have gone to bucket trucks for that reason, if they can't access it with a bucket truck they don't even quote it. I too am sick of training, once they get to know a fair bit off they go, grass is always greener, and round goes the cycle again. Some companies have a permanent ad for workers because of the turnover.

That's my 2 bobs worth.
 
I learned to climb at the first tree service I worked for, and when the boss got to screaming, I'd tell him " one of these days all this time you invested in me is gonna make SOMEBODY ELSE alot of money ". I was right too. :p
 
Its all about respect. Prima donna climbers and lazy groundsmen suck. Work hard, treat each other good. This is no b.s., my partner at the last company I worked for has gone through over twenty guys (groundsmen) in 18 months. Before I quit the two of us went around together kicking ass and taking names together for 6 months. Hazard tree removal annilation, it worked good for us because we took turns climbing, running the bucket, chipping whatever. The guy is not mean at all, the boss puts guys with him and they just cant handle the work so they quit. Obviosly good guys are hard to find so when you get one make sure you do what it takes to keep him.
 
clearance, you touched on a couple fine points. do what it takes to get it done. it doesnt matter what your "job title" is. switching roles is a great idea. practice the golden rule...ive never quit a job where i felt like i was being treated right. i wouldnt ask any1 to do anything im not ready to do my self.
 
MB- hows this for prima donna, boss sent a climber with us, cut down the trees, had a bucket truck to help also. Cleanup time: "I dont chip brush, take me home" If I had been in the game longer I would have told him to walk, but as it was we took him home. Bet youve never pulled that sh#t on your guys.
 
ill bet he has, but its different. he's not a crewmember. he probly drove im self if he did leave. if you're a sub climber thats one thing, but if youre all on the same team, everybody stick it out. whatever, dont leave your dawgs hangin...
 
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