Climbing Techniques

[Tree Machine]

The Singing Rope Wrench was announced in Australia last week as Kevin's well-done video was circulated in that part of the world

The singing rope wrench was also given it's first public debut and demonstration, live, and on the world stage, at the 2010 TCIA Expo.

 

[Tree Machine]

Take a bow, Dawg.


Note Tom Dunlap there in the background.


The new SRT Rope Wrench hanging there on line to the far right.

Like TreeCo says, he's eyeing a special piece of wood, like raw gunstock, in the general shape of a stretched-out lamb chop.
I, too, am going to send Kevin Bingham my own choice of material. It's a short (16") slab of 6/4 teak I have had around for awhile.

From this, I will request two be made. I would like them bonded permanently together with my choice of industrial sealant-adhesive (to be sent with the wood) to create a dual. If the rope wrench goes easily up a single line, AND that what I say is true about how very similar twin line ascent is to SRT, then the dual rope wrench should perform more or less the same on twin as it does SRT. The load and friction duties to each side will be halved. There should be half as much heat generated, and half as much wear on the device. Half as much force needed from the climber to engage the friction. 50% less wear on the ropes as the forces of friction and pressure are being shared equally by the parallel lines. Again, the physics talking, not me.

There will also be twice the friction on ascent, but if one side give zero resistance, then if you double that, you're still at zero.

Here's how I see approaching USING a dual rope wrench. This is intended to crystallize your understanding of how the three rope techniques work:

If I were to use that dual rope wrench, twin line technique, if the rope runs through one side, and is locked off on the other side, I am in 2:1 mode.
If I use both sides equally, I am in 1:1 twin line (DbRT)
If I anchor one end of the rope to an immovable object, and only use one side of the rope wrench, I am in SRT.

We already KNOW the rope wrench does not twist the rope. If this dual thing works, it will fulfill all the basic requirements I demand of a current, cutting edge piece, and that is, be able to climb any one of the three rope methods with it. If it works, the next question is how well does it work?

I'll sign a waiver. I volunteer to be a test pilot, like Chuck Jaegermeister.

I'm excited. I totally get this device. If anyone has any questions, go ahead and ask any time, even if we're discussing other friction strategies or methods of approaching any one of the other ascent/work positioning/descent modes. Kevin is here in the thread and the name of this thread is "Climbing Techniques".

 

[Tree Machine]

I'm convinced that somewhere is some type of tree mother nature has shaped fibers that are almost optimum for the Wrench design. I'm going to dissect a few pieces tomorrow.

All these decades, let's say centuries, we tree climbers have been seeking the most efficient way to enter into and work the canopy.

TreeCo proposes that the solution might ultimately come from the tree itself.

That notion has credible juju. I second it.

 

[Tree Machine]

Here's a rough artist rendition of what a dual rope wrench might look like.
Not a bad bit of photoshopping, if I do say so myself.

 

[Bermie]

Whew, what a read!
Worth it though...similar debate going on at the House...

I tend to agree with Moss, SRT great for getting up with 2:1 for moving through the canopy.
I finally get what Kevin is talking about, cinching the SRT line to new TIPS to move throug the canopy, but as Moss says, it then becomes a bit of a problem retrieving the cinch going down...

What is the most minimal amount fo gear you'd use for an SRT ascent? I have a pantin, spare hitch cord, micro pullry, but no ascenders, would any basic configuration work for a short ascent, say 30'?

I agree, I'm tired of 2:1 for some ascents, particularly those where one is suspended away from the trunk, skywalking!

 

[kevin bingham]

i have been working on your dual rope wrench already!, thats cool, I was not thinking about two pieces glued together, but really just one piece of wood, thats possible too right? do they need to work independently of one another? no right. It just has to be a dual rope wrench... I ll keep you posted.

 

[moss]

What is the most minimal amount fo gear you'd use for an SRT ascent? I have a pantin, spare hitch cord, micro pullry, but no ascenders, would any basic configuration work for a short ascent, say 30'?

Not officially kosher but for short SRT ascents I just do a hitch and Pantin, but do the single loop footlock with my left foot so I can use both feet on the rope. It works fine. If you add a single handled ascender to your current gear set you can open up the possibilities quite a bit but stay minimal.
-AJ

 

[kevin bingham]

minimal SRT gear is a hitch. for any thing less than a 30-40 foot ascent, its SRT on only a hitch. I like a sit-stand footlock technique to preserve energy. the longer the ascent or the longer my day will be, Ill set up a frog walker with a pantin. and an upper assender (which can be a hitch if you want).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LykX1OyJk&feature=related

 

[Tree Machine]

Whew, what a read!
Worth it though...similar debate going on at the House...

Is ANYONE doing twin-line?

Anybody?



The physics speak clearly in favor of twin line, for every advantage SRT can bring to the table, twin line can bring 2. Every technical move you can do with SRT, you can do with twin-line.


How do I know this with such certainty? Because I climb this stuff every working day of my life. And I have minimal, but specialized gear. Not complicated, nor bulky, nor expensive. Just different thaan what all of you are using. And it makes the world of 1:1 climbing, both SRT and Twin (DbRT), literally, at your fingertips.


I had a point I was trying to make with all this, but I've forgotten what it was.

 

[Tree Machine]

Oh, I am going to agree with Kevin on

I like a sit-stand footlock technique to preserve energy

Yes. Being able to rest between strides, at will, is critical.

In competition, you use a prussik, and you fly up a rope. In real life, you are caring for trees and are working..... we are in an Arborist forum, correct?

Arborists earn a living caring for trees. CLIMBING arborists ..... we are talking about climbing techniques in this thread.....


With that said, understand, this is a job that requires your being the safest and most efficient at doing what it is we do. For the treecare professional, the core is working on or in a tree's canopy. For the climbing arborist, Your entire, professional life revolves around the climbing part.

I'm not telling the seasoned professionals anything new. But this is, and correct me if I'm wrong, Arborist 101. It's where we talk about the bare fundamentals.

 

[Tree Machine]

I'll repeat what I've said in threads over the last 8 years,

I think tree climbers should be the best & safest, most advanced and most able climbers in all the worlds aerial disciplines.

That means being ABLE to do techniques others don't. The worlds aerial jobs are all SRT and they're years ahead of us. Well, until Bingham came to the forefront here in the last month and teaches us a breakthrough method on how to manage SRT on both ascent and descent.

This could possibly open the door to twin line climbing that does both ascent and descent.

The key point being this: If you have a device that allows you to work a twin line, it by default, must also allow you to work single.



If we could devise and develop THAT ability, we then hold options to work ALL THREE rope techniques, using whichever one, whenever that technique offers the most advantage and overall ease and efficiency.


All my fellow professionals locked in the one world of 2:1 doubled rope, it's just the hardest way to go about the work. Being sentenced to excess motion, inefficient rope ascents and 2X slack-tending, the ONLY advantage is you can go up and down on the same system.


Kevin has shown us an original way to do that in SRT. I say let's push the envelope a bit further and solve for 1:1 DbRT TWIN. It just hasn't been done, so Kevin, when I get my Dual Rope Wrench, this is what I'm shooting for. All three techniques, one device.

 

[moss]

I agree, I'm tired of 2:1 for some ascents, particularly those where one is suspended away from the trunk, skywalking!

It's interesting how different everyone's climbing motion is whether it's 2:1, 1:1 or 1:1 on doubled rope. A lot of it comes from who taught them when they first started climbing.

For me 2:1 climbing is the most efficient away from the trunk. My goal with 2:1 is to have a climbing motion as near identical to 1:1 as I can make it. Either way I believe it's possible to get your body mechanics the most efficient away from the trunk. I save body thrusting for short moves in the crown where it is the most productive for energy expended. If I have trunk contact climbing from the ground and I'm not pressed too tight against the trunk I'll try and put my hip to the tree so I can keep both feet on the rope, SRT or DdRT.

Tree Machine is a passionate promoter of doubled rope 1:1 climbing. I'm all for it but I believe how the climber moves on whatever system they use is very important for efficiency.
-AJ

 

[TonyX3M]

for me it is depending on weather - if tree is frozen solid with ice on it - it reduces the difference between 1:2 and 1:1 to almost 0- and if you guys want to go really old school- don't forget body thrusting- they still teach that to us in forestry school (and that hardest of them all IMO) - but being able to climb without any gadgets is essential in my book- just in (almost impossible) case physical devices should fail...
So I usually climb 1:1- but knowing the old techniques is a piece of skills just for emergency's- just as knowledge of aerial rescue....
BTW -I still can pull myself up on ol' Blakes with one hand- but of course I'm young and dumb and full of...:censored:

 

[TonyX3M]

Tm

Can you take a picture of your setup- maybe then I can show that to my boss and get some decent gear (so far old school is good enough- because new stuff costs money!)

 

[Tree Machine]

Tree Machine is a passionate promoter of doubled rope 1:1 climbing.

I'm a passionate promoter of clean information.

 

[Tree Machine]

Can you take a picture of your setup- )

Yes, Tony. Yes I will. TreeeBing also asked to see my setup. I'll spill the beans, but first, I have gone on at long length and detail to make a couple key points, such that my intent is not misunderstood.

Then I will get something like this,

Tree Machine is a passionate promoter of doubled rope 1:1 climbing.

NO, but with much love.


1:1 intrigues me with how simple and effective a technique it is, and paradoxically, how few have ever worked off of it. I don't mean ascend with it, I mean WORK off of it. This is a quantum difference between competitive climbing and recreational climbing. Arborists carry tools and we make money using them. That means whatever kit you use should facilitate that purpose.


Here is a key point: I think it is possible that some day, a single piece of gear will be developed that allows access to using all three rope techniques, a versatility not even imagined at this time in history, not by commercial climbers, nor gear producers.




So, TonyX3M, the hard fact is, this single piece of gear does not exist, not even in my head. But in the quest to find this piece, I am passionate about bringing you along on the journey. And giving you clean information, scientifically-based, non-biassed, factual, reproducible information.

 

[TonyX3M]

I am on very limited budget and very far away from US - actually I have to go to neighboring Finland just to get a climbing rope- so I am about two years behind you guys in gear department- thats why I'm here - to see where and when ya'll go with it- its hard enough just to keep track with all the new developments- and I am NOT by no means perfect- so I try to get a piece of useful information out of every discussion or disagreement you guys have - thats why I dont write as often as you guys- TV,Jeff ,Old etc...- by the way- just reading the posts what they put up, I understood, how little I know about the trees- and in comparing to them I dont know :censored: about it!
But at least I'm trying - to get better first as person- second as climber and maybe-just maybe in one day I can call myself an arborist- but I doubt I ever will be on RS level - I dont think I just got an ability

 

[D Mc]

TM, I'm pretty sure Moss has a good understanding of the technique you are promoting. I see his choice of wording as lack of agreement more than lack of comprehension.

I feel the same.

You keep repeating that your techniques are superior due to the fact that you make your living climbing trees. Well, I do also. Most of my career was accomplished through "old school" 2:1, standard arborist tree climbing techniques. Through necessity I perfected this technique to the point where I could accomplish anything required within the tree. It is not lacking in ability. It is lacking in energy efficiency.

So the last few years, because I could see a more efficient way, I have been developing my ability to perform as an arborist using 1:1 climbing techniques. These are, as you state, a great boon in energy efficient movement for entering the tree. And also can be successfully used for movement within the tree.

I can accomplish all I need to do in a very efficient manner with one tool. The Unicender. I can go from 2:1 to 1:1 and all the variations in between. I can ascend with a rope walker style, without having to isolate both ends of the line, redirect by just tossing the tail of my line through a crotch, switch over to 2:1 if warranted, even use the Uni in a RADS 3:1 setup, if that is of benefit to the situation.

I can see no gains by having to once again isolate my TIP, drag two lines with me everywhere I want to go with the associated concerns of friction and bark damage when those two lines are used in a 2:1 system.


Bermie, working off a single line does not have to be complicated and will open up many possibilities for you and reduce your energy outputs by a substantial amount. Watch Kevin Bingham's videos. He can accomplish this WORK climbing method with very little gear or expense.

After you have tried it, if you decide you like it, you can then experiment with some of the more elaborate systems.

Many complain about the cost of the Unicender, but at its current price of $280 I see this as a nonissue. Frankly, if you are making money doing tree work and you can't afford $280 for a tool this versatile, you are not charging enough money. So the deciding factor should not be the cost, but whether or not this specific tool will be of benefit to you; because there are many different ways to accomplish the same thing.

Dave

 

[TonyX3M]

To Dave

28 dollars is a lot of money for me - BUT never less I dont skimp out my climbing gear- as somebody in here told me- thats your life you holding on to AND TY for that!

 

[D Mc]

Tony, my apologies. I did not intend to diminish the difficulty and challenges of making a living as an arborist. It takes very little equipment to be a top quality and productive arborist.

And you certainly do not need a Unicender. My statement was directed more towards those willing to spend hundreds of dollars collectively on saddles, saws, and fancy pulleys but can't justify the added expense of a very specialized tool that may make their lives easier and more productive.

As I said, most of my career was spent in traditional rope and saddle, with basic techniques and was able to accomplish a great deal in this manner.

But just because something was done one way in the past, does not mean there is not a better way.

Dave