could've been done in half the time...

[Bushler]

2 dogs, NEVER use a splitting wedge. Damn, I thought it was about long taper steel falling wedges. Sorry.

 

[2dogs]

OK. I thought that was what you meant. We cool.

 

[Nailsbeats]

The steel wedges I use have more lift than your standard plastic, but they are not very aggressive by any means. They have the perfect taper for me and are very durable, drive great with an 8 pounder.

I am talking about moving heavy timber against the lean with these babies. When I try plastic for this, they go in the kerf, tighten up and wont move forward to drive the tree over. Just beat the piss out of the end and they give me the "toing" vibration sound, as if to say, "if you hit me harder I will just snap off." The steel ones just goes "tink" and keeps driving. Not scientific description, but the best I can do.

I have used the actual splitting wedge with wings on it in a pinch, but definitely not my "go to" felling wedge.

That's about as clear as I can be without pictures, which I am going to try to get eventually.


A thought I had, could it be that you PNW guy's falling much straighter and taller timber on average is a big part of it. I mean if you lift a 140' tree 1" at the bottom, that will move your top weight over quit a bit. Now go to the 70', crooked, leaning, fat tree, it will take much more lift to bring the center of gravity over. I think this is a lot of the difference in the two applications. Because I know it works and works well for me, when the plastics won't get it over I plant a steel right in next to them and finnish.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Alright, here are pictures of the wedges I use. The plastics are 10" and the steel is 8 3/4".

That's a double stack plastic behind the steel. The steel wedge is about 1 2/3 the overall height of the double.

Here I am showing that if the plastic wedge were burried it would be about the same lift as half the steel wedge.

 

[2dogs]

The steel wedges I use have more lift than your standard plastic, but they are not very aggressive by any means. They have the perfect taper for me and are very durable, drive great with an 8 pounder.

I am talking about moving heavy timber against the lean with these babies. When I try plastic for this, they go in the kerf, tighten up and wont move forward to drive the tree over. Just beat the piss out of the end and they give me the "toing" vibration sound, as if to say, "if you hit me harder I will just snap off." The steel ones just goes "tink" and keeps driving. Not scientific description, but the best I can do.

I have used the actual splitting wedge with wings on it in a pinch, but definitely not my "go to" felling wedge.

That's about as clear as I can be without pictures, which I am going to try to get eventually.


A thought I had, could it be that you PNW guy's falling much straighter and taller timber on average is a big part of it. I mean if you lift a 140' tree 1" at the bottom, that will move your top weight over quit a bit. Now go to the 70', crooked, leaning, fat tree, it will take much more lift to bring the center of gravity over. I think this is a lot of the difference in the two applications. Because I know it works and works well for me, when the plastics won't get it over I plant a steel right in next to them and finnish.

If you just would have said "tink vs. toing" I would have understood and we would not have had 5 pages of posts.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I am talking about moving heavy timber against the lean with these babies.

I move heavy hardwoods on slopes with lean very easily with my plastic wedges . Guess its all in the technique. I have never seen a feller in the UP use a steel wedge.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Chev, fill me in on your technique if you would.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Big hardwoods on steep slopes i bore cut and insert wedges, then cut the backstrap and pound a little and get clear. My girlfriends dad has been cutting timber for an outfit up here for 31 years and doing it that way since he started. I rarely break wedges or have any tink tunk issues.

Trees on lesser slopes or flat i just do a normal backcut with a wedge or two to set direction.

 

[Bushler]

Nails, be carefull lifting that much with wedges, its possible to break the holding wood and have the tree come back over the wedge. Guanteed to make you run....

Do you ever use a dutchman? I have cut some gnarly tan oak by quartering it away from the lean, and using a dutchman to get it to swing into lead.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Big hardwoods on steep slopes i bore cut and insert wedges, then cut the backstrap and pound a little and get clear. My girlfriends dad has been cutting timber for an outfit up here for 31 years and doing it that way since he started. I rarely break wedges or have any tink tunk issues.

Trees on lesser slopes or flat i just do a normal backcut with a wedge or two to set direction.

That's a good technique for what you're doing, no doubt.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Nails, be carefull lifting that much with wedges, its possible to break the holding wood and have the tree come back over the wedge. Guanteed to make you run....

Do you ever use a dutchman? I have cut some gnarly tan oak by quartering it away from the lean, and using a dutchman to get it to swing into lead.

I've had plenty of trees go over backwards, but none from wedging. I know it can happen though and is on the brain when really trying to force one where it shouldn't be able to go.

Most of our hardwoods hinge very strong, White Pine is a bad one around here.

I have not used the Dutchman. Though not the same, I quarter a lot and use a tapered hinge. I am going to experiment with Dutchboy though, try to get em' swingin. I think it is endless the shapes you can cut in a notch and stuff you can try.

 

[hammerlogging]

Nails, remember, its the side lean, not the back lean, that'll make her break the hinge. I know the feeling when you have your wedges set and tunk no action. Well, thats cause you gat more back lean than you expected, misjudged. But, driving 2 or 3 wedges next to each other simultaneously makes hard punding situations tons easier. Doesn't that big steel wedge ever squirt out?

By the way, I use the long bar for all its benefits, and bore just about everything, never thought of it as harder than a 20" bar. Sure , we can all cut huge timber with tiny bars but its just not as fast casue you have to reposition so damn much. For any experienced cutter, whos afraid opf kickback? Ain't that big of a deal if you can handle a saw. Much rather an inconsequential kickback that ain't no problem than a barberchair, which is really scary stuation. Note- I've had one extraordinary barberchair situation bore cutting a rotten extrememly large hw tree. So, to each his own, but I'd never let someone cut for me where directional felling wasn't the norm.

Pounding on wedges may dislodge hangers whether you bore or back cut. But, bore cut felling (directional felling) has major safety advantages because the TREE IS NOT FALLING WHILE YOU ARE STILL ESTABLISHING YOUR HINGE. Cause HW don't cut as fast, and if you leave a fat hinge you get barberchair, or preliminary barberchair where you start busting butt log wood and good fallers don't break wood. And nails, I agree, the dude did look either coked up or nervous/afraid. No reason to pound wedges fast like that. Really your whole comment in the first place was no big deal, but I won't agree with the big steelies.

 

[Bushler]

Why is it so important to fall them against the lean? I can see heavy wedging an occasional tree, and unit line trees etc.. but normaly I can swing a leaner into lead with a single wedge and/or a dutchman.

 

[redprospector]

Alright, here are pictures of the wedges I use. The plastics are 10" and the steel is 8 3/4".

That's a double stack plastic behind the steel. The steel wedge is about 1 2/3 the overall height of the double.

Here I am showing that if the plastic wedge were burried it would be about the same lift as half the steel wedge.

Nailsbeats,
That's just an old 5 lb splitting wedge. I'm not going to rail on you about using it, but I think it's a bad idea. If you like steel that's ok, but I would suggest investing in a couple of steel felling wedges instead. I'm not trying to be an a$$ or anything, I'd just hate to see you get hurt.

Andy

 

[smokinj]

Plastic wedges may have more leverage in principle, but not in my real world experience because they just don't drive like steel ones. Thus, my original joke about throwing them out, that guy really wacked away with that old hatchet.

Keep in mind now, I am speaking in terms of eastern hardwood not western softwood. Plastic wedges do not fair well with those nasty, old, crooked, limby, unbalanced, hardwood trees. They need a lot of lift especially when going opposite the lean. Put a couple steel wedges in with a 8lb maul and you don't need to stack can drive them in with good lift and no wedge damage. With trees 20" and up (this is where they shine) you usually don't have to worry much about contacting the wedge. You don't have to pound it in as far to get the same lift. Next best thing to a tree jack in my opinion.

For bucking I will agree that plastics work great. Placing a wedge above the saw to hold open the kerf. I also use them when climbing to hold the kerf.

I am not trying to re-educate the western cutters, there are many different variables and if I were in their shoes I would be doing it the same way they are. I am simply stating the virtues of steel wedges that I have found and deem valueable for my use in my area.

As far as playing me off as a young punk that doesn't listen, that is simply not true. There are different sides to the debate, both having meritt in their applications.

Logging is a big business in Wisconsin and there are many pro's in my area. Though processors have taken the place of many a faller.

I use both for the same reason!

 

[Nailsbeats]

Why is it so important to fall them against the lean? I can see heavy wedging an occasional tree, and unit line trees etc.. but normaly I can swing a leaner into lead with a single wedge and/or a dutchman.

Where I'm at you will get clumps of trees growing together, especially Basswood. They all lean out in a circle. I like to lay them all on top of each other if I can, nomatter what the lean. Obviously this makes skidding much easier. We have a 440B John Deere cable skidder. Puts the wedging to the test, that's for sure.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Nails, remember, its the side lean, not the back lean, that'll make her break the hinge. I know the feeling when you have your wedges set and tunk no action. Well, thats cause you gat more back lean than you expected, misjudged. But, driving 2 or 3 wedges next to each other simultaneously makes hard punding situations tons easier. Doesn't that big steel wedge ever squirt out?

By the way, I use the long bar for all its benefits, and bore just about everything, never thought of it as harder than a 20" bar. Sure , we can all cut huge timber with tiny bars but its just not as fast casue you have to reposition so damn much. For any experienced cutter, whos afraid opf kickback? Ain't that big of a deal if you can handle a saw. Much rather an inconsequential kickback that ain't no problem than a barberchair, which is really scary stuation. Note- I've had one extraordinary barberchair situation bore cutting a rotten extrememly large hw tree. So, to each his own, but I'd never let someone cut for me where directional felling wasn't the norm.

Pounding on wedges may dislodge hangers whether you bore or back cut. But, bore cut felling (directional felling) has major safety advantages because the TREE IS NOT FALLING WHILE YOU ARE STILL ESTABLISHING YOUR HINGE. Cause HW don't cut as fast, and if you leave a fat hinge you get barberchair, or preliminary barberchair where you start busting butt log wood and good fallers don't break wood. And nails, I agree, the dude did look either coked up or nervous/afraid. No reason to pound wedges fast like that. Really your whole comment in the first place was no big deal, but I won't agree with the big steelies.

I haven't had trouble at all with the steel wedge squirting out. I have pounded them in under major tension before too. I have used it to replace about 3 plastics many times, faster to me.

As far as dislodging stuff, the steel wedge does send a nice shock through the tree, and man do they drive.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Nailsbeats,
That's just an old 5 lb splitting wedge. I'm not going to rail on you about using it, but I think it's a bad idea. If you like steel that's ok, but I would suggest investing in a couple of steel felling wedges instead. I'm not trying to be an a$$ or anything, I'd just hate to see you get hurt.

Andy

I think I would like steel fellers, that's a good idea. I am going to order some to try when I get around to it. Thanks.

 

[2dogs]

Are steel falling wedges made anymore? I had one many years ago but it was at least 50 years old.

 

[Nailsbeats]

This has me thinking, if I can't find them I will probably build my own. Mill some steel and harden, should work.