Crane madnesss?

[beastmaster]

I haven't work with a crane much. So my experience is limited. Yesterday we were removing three large eucs with a crane. I rode the ball up and put on a strap. That was cool, then my boss on the next tops wanted me to hook my climbing line on the ball, put the strap on then lower my self from the ball make the cut and let the crane lift me and the top off at the same time. This seemed kind of crazy to me. I was game to a point, but vary uncomfortable to say the lest. The crane operator refused to let this go down after I was up in the tree ready to make the cut. Did my boss try to get me killed? He said that's how he use to do it all the time.

 

[sawsong]

there was a big 'discussion' on here not so long ago re: tying into the boom/above the ball/on the ball or hook etc and the relevant regs. someone who knows will be along shortly, but from what i can remember, and from my common sense, i would say what he asked you to do is downright dangerous and unacceptable. being tied to the same point as a big chunk of swinging wood (careful ) is not what i would call safe, but at the end of the day. you shouldnt be made to do anything you dont feel safe or confident doing. that's where accidents happen

keep safe

jim

 

[woodchux]

You should use a clevis shackle above the ball, and a friction saver for your lifeline.

 

[lync]

I do not claim to be an expert, but fairly experienced with crane removals, do 3-4 a month this year. And many over the last 5 years.
Don't use the hook as your attachment point for your climbing line, that hook is for straps only. Make , buy , copy an approved meathod of tying into the crane's load line above the ball. You can do a search and you will find some examples here. Tie off the piece to be picked, you may use more than one strap to balance the load, I like taking tops with 2 straps high in the crown, I hate when the load rolls over, make it butt heavy. Decide where the cut will be made ,lanyard in and pull your climbing line out of the crane load line tie in and into a suitable place in the tree. If you climb with a snap or beaner loose it for this job, nothing worse than your climbing line getting fouled and can't get the end back to you. Make your cut watch the butt of the piece being lifted, depending on how you rigged it, it may come back at you as you finish the cut. When working down the pole put the ball on the side of the pole away from the crane, so that he will be opening the kerf and lifting the piece away from you as he lifts with the boom. You and the crane operator have to have good communications. A pair of walkie-talkies can be helpful.
Good luck and be safe. Don't ride the ball with the tree attached let your boss do it!!
Corey

 

[BostonBull]

I wouldnt feelcomfy doing it either, unless the tree was that unsafe to climb that it was ABSOLUTELY neccesary.

We tie in by putting a master link directly on the hook, then put the sling on then a pin through the gate of the hook. This seems to be the most common way around here to do it.

EVERY co. has their own little way of doing crane work, just like tree work itself no two guys do it the same.

I would strongly recommend NOT tieing directly into the hook. One small burr on there will rip your rope to shreds!

Good Luck!

 

[Urbicide]

Call OHSA and see what they have to say. In construction absolutely no one is allowed to ride on the cable or on the headache ball. A good way to get thrown off of the job. At the very least learn the universal hand signals used to give instructions to the operator.

 

[beowulf343]

I wouldnt feelcomfy doing it either, unless the tree was that unsafe to climb that it was ABSOLUTELY neccesary.

If the tree is that bad, bring in a second crane. Tie into one and pick with the other.

 

[BostonBull]

Call OHSA and see what they have to say. In construction absolutely no one is allowed to ride on the cable or on the headache ball. A good way to get thrown off of the job. At the very least learn the universal hand signals used to give instructions to the operator.

Well this isnt a construction jobsite, its a Arboriculture jobsite and OSHA says riding the ball in our insustry is A OK! So long as that is the safest way of doing the tree.

 

[lync]

Boston Bull:

I would assume that the choke with the strap would be made using a shackle, therefore no need to take the strap off the hook to choke the limb.?

Corey

 

[mikecross23]

I rode pieces out once not more than a few months ago. I wouldn't say that it's ok to do, but in our particular instance I made the judgment call that I felt safer doing so. There were two medium sized pines in a tight back yard deader than a door nail. I strapped with one long strap and took way smaller chunks than the crane could handle to avoid any unpredictable incidents. It was one of the most fun crane jobs I've ever done. I rode the pieces out like I was surfing over the pool, over the roof and into the front yard. Keep in mind the wood was very dead and light. I made wide break cuts, then hung my saw up and climbed above the piece. Then the crane operator would gently break the piece off and I would come back down the 5' or 6' and ride the chunk down to the ground where I would unstrap the piece and ride back to the tree. It was awsome, however I haven't done it since because the situation has not presented itself again.

The TCIA mag published an article on crane use and tree work. I love the friction saver on a shackle above the ball configuration and I have used it ever since reading the article. I feel that it is much safer.

Mike

 

[BostonBull]

Boston Bull:

I would assume that the choke with the strap would be made using a shackle, therefore no need to take the strap off the hook to choke the limb.?

Corey

That is correct.

 

[Crofter]

Well this isnt a construction jobsite, its a Arboriculture jobsite and OSHA says riding the ball in our insustry is A OK! So long as that is the safest way of doing the tree.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache...h)(3)(v)&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=ca&lr=lang_en

Here are some of OSHA's regs for hoisting loads and personell

I dont think they quite say it is A OK! they put a lot of restrictions and recommendations on the procedure. The safety factor for load ratings when hoisting personel and loads together is a whole different story. As long as there is no incident it is no big deal but the employer really is pretty much on the hook if something goes wrong and he sure has to provide a record of due diigence to cover his --- if anything does.
I have worked out of basket from a crane but job policy was to have no load lifting from the same crane as suspended personell so another crane to take the pick. I think legally the operator has to know and show his calculations of the load to be picked, add the fall arrest 5000 lbs of the climber and still be less than a seventh or so of the cranes normal load without personell. Sure as he11 we know a lot of the safety precautions never happen in tree removals.

My youngest son is due to write his crane operators ticket shortly. The company he works for wont touch tree removals.

 

[BostonBull]

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache...h)(3)(v)&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=ca&lr=lang_en

Here are some of OSHA's regs for hoisting loads and personell

I dont think they quite say it is A OK! they put a lot of restrictions and recommendations on the procedure. The safety factor for load ratings when hoisting personel and loads together is a whole different story. As long as there is no incident it is no big deal but the employer really is pretty much on the hook if something goes wrong and he sure has to provide a record of due diigence to cover his --- if anything does.
I have worked out of basket from a crane but job policy was to have no load lifting from the same crane as suspended personell so another crane to take the pick. I think legally the operator has to know and show his calculations of the load to be picked, add the fall arrest 5000 lbs of the climber and still be less than a seventh or so of the cranes normal load without personell. Sure as he11 we know a lot of the safety precautions never happen in tree removals.

My youngest son is due to write his crane operators ticket shortly. The company he works for wont touch tree removals.

I am in agreement of not picking any loads with a person attached at the same time.
Trees are funky creatures. Its not like picking up a pefectly stright 5Klbs piece of steel and booming it up. A tree moves in the wind, twists, will sometimes flop sideways, etc etc. very unpredictable. I feel that Crane operators who work with trees all the time are a lot more qualified operators than those that dont because they always expect the absolute worst. Its a ot harder not knowing exactly what your pick will weigh until it is on the end of you ball 100' away and swinging toward and away from you with a live human defenseless on the stem under it.

 

[Crofter]

Anyone who does tree work dayum well earns his money, even the brushdraggers. It says somewhere in some old book "blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the world"! If they do, I wonder who will do the tree work! Lol!

 

[coydog]

2006 ansi z 133 regs address this, I don't have them in front of me but I recall an exception is made to allow for riding the crane and load together if the tree is unsafe to climb. I may be wrong but that is what I recall at the moment. Accepted methods of attachment to the bal are also outlined. Riding the load and ball together is completely unnacceptable for a routine crane removal. The operator made a good call.

 

[Raneleigh]

MOL would love to issue fines and send you to court if they saw that done here in Ontario. Fines would start with the worker and the crane operator, to the supervisor and then on to the owner of the company, who could be fined tens of thousands of dollars.

But cranes do make a nice tie off spot...

 

[Treetom]

No way Jose'

I've removed a lot of trees with a crane. Often I had the crane operater lift me up to the point where I'd set the cinch cable on a limb. I'd then get into a safe position--preferably behind the trunk if it's a limb removal--and make my cut. If the limb flips over due to top-heaviness or a piece breaks out of an adjacent limb, I'm out of the way. On a trunk cut I'm always on the opposite side of the trunk from the crane with the cinch on the same side as me. When I make my cut the trunk section then has a tendency to go toward the crane and is lifted away from me. Hooking onto the crane in any way, shape or form during a cut is not advisable for me. Just my two cents. By the way, cranes tip over every year, even when operated by experienced operaters...

 

[AlpineJesus]

Hanging pieces top heavy is a good way to flip a crane, shock loading and cranes dont mix well.