Critique my sharpening skills
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WKEND LUMBERJAK
Addicted to ArboristSite
I need some 1on1 training.:msp_biggrin:
paccity
Addicted to ArboristSite
If you're serious about learning to square file buy 2 loops of chain in a size you need. Buy atleast a dozen files. :msp_wink: Probably 2 dozen will be more like it. When you sharpen those chains to nothing or get them too far out of whack just round file them and start over with more. It will take probably take wearing out 10 chains or more to get decent to proficient at it. If you want to be lazy about it get a grinder and don't look back. 
paccity
Addicted to ArboristSite
a grinder can actually help you work on what works and what don't . filing with a new chain will help . a good way to help get your angles right is take a black permanent marker and cover the working area ,make a cut and look at it and see where your off and adjust.
memory
ArboristSite Guru
I have been working on one of my chains and I think I am getting the hang of it, I am even getting the left cutters looking pretty good, well too me anyways. But now I may have another problem, the file is cutting into the very bottom of the tooth. Should it be coming in contact with the bottom of the tooth? I don't have any pics right now but if I think about it, I will get some tomorrow. I can see this happening if the teeth are almost were out but they are not. BTW, how do you avoid cutting into the bottom of the cutters when the cutters are almost were out?
Another question, how big of a deal is it to have all the cutters the exact same length? Why would it matter if all the angles are the same? I know mine are not all the same length.
Another question, how big of a deal is it to have all the cutters the exact same length? Why would it matter if all the angles are the same? I know mine are not all the same length.
I am on a weak network right now and cannot access or upload photos. But look at the Oregon Maintenance and Safety Manual
OREGON Maintenance and Safety Manual
and the illustrations on filing. They will show how 1/5 (or 20 %) for the file diameter should remain above the top of the cutter tooth in order to get the proper hook shape.
If you are hitting the tie straps you are either holding the file too low or using a file that is too large in diameter for that cutter.
Cutters being the same length is important for several reasons:
The simplest is that the tops of your cutters are slanted/inclined for cutting clearance. They are also angled out to the side (set) for clearance. If the cutters are different lengths, they will also be different heights and different width. Hard to get a smooth, consistent cut with different sized cutters.
You want your cutters sharp, and you want all cutters on a loop of chain to be the same.
Philbert
memory
ArboristSite Guru
Just by guessing, I would say more than 20% of the file is above the tooth, at least it looks that way. I am using a 3/16 file with a 3/16 file guide and that is the correct size. When I am filing, do I rest the guide on top of the tooth and the raker?
That makes sense about the different length in the cutters but it will still cut, right? I am not trying to win any races or anything.
Another problem I am having is on the left cutters, I can not keep the angles the same. I don't know if it is because I am right handed or what, guess it is something I will have to work on. Once I use these chains up, I am really going to try to keep everything sharp and all the angles the same. I guess these chains are good ones to practice on.
That makes sense about the different length in the cutters but it will still cut, right? I am not trying to win any races or anything.
Another problem I am having is on the left cutters, I can not keep the angles the same. I don't know if it is because I am right handed or what, guess it is something I will have to work on. Once I use these chains up, I am really going to try to keep everything sharp and all the angles the same. I guess these chains are good ones to practice on.
J.W Younger
ass kissing impaired
I remember having the same problem. Don't know what to tell you other than practice.
Oh, one thing that helped me was a lot of my filing was done on my tailgate. If I positioned the saw where the ribs in the bed where inline with the 25=30 top plate angle of the top plate it kinda worked like a guide, like taking a pool shot and stuff.
The basic, Oregon style file holders (flat with a recess for the file in the center) are designed to hold the file at the correct 'depth' - keeping 20% percent above the cutter. That is why there are different sized holders for different diameter files.
I hold those flat on top of the cutter. Whatever you choose to do, be consistent on each cutter.
Most guys have a weak side when filing. The important thing is that you are aware of this and you can take your time, check it periodically, and work to be more consistent.
Some guys will file the right side cutters with the guide bar held in a vise, then flip the saw over and file the left side cutters. Try it and see if it helps you or not.
Philbert
memory
ArboristSite Guru
That is the type of guide I am using and I used to hold it flat on top of the cutter but it seemed as I was not getting enough hook, according to everybody here and that is why I started holding on top of the raker and the tooth as the Stihl video showed. But now because of that I am cutting too low. Now I guess I need hold it off the raker a little but not flat on top of the tooth. Geez, why does everything have to be so complicated?
When you say flip the saw over, do you mean upside down? So you would be filing the same way as the right cutters?
Philbert,
I won't question your "sharp"ness when it comes to chains but I question the "equal cutter length" thing. As I understand it , the relationship between each cutter and it's own raker is more important then the overall "equality" of the cutters. As the chain bounces around in the cut I don't think the importance of " equal cutter" lengths matters all that much as the equality of the depth gauge/ raker..
Help me out with this one. My visualization of the cutting event may be influence by the bottle of merlot next to me ...
Thanks
It's not that complicated:
1. Get each cutter sharp (top and side edges);
2. Make every cutter on a loop the same.
There are lots of ways to do this - you just have to find a way that works for you.
Guys get confused when they try too many different things at the same time. Pick one method and stick with it until you get good results. Later on you can try something else if you want. After you get each of your cutters consistent, you can start to decide if you want to change an angle a few degrees, or modify the hook a little. But first you need to practice until you develop the skill and confidence to get them each the same.
Yeah, flip the saw upside down. Make sure that the gas cap is on tight. Filing is not exactly the same, but it helps to get the motor out of the way. Try it once and see if it makes sense for you.
Again, what ever works for YOU. Focus on the results. If these other Yahoos on A.S. can get it, you will tool
Philbert
quotejso2
ArboristSite Guru
I was just interested as to what the progressive gauge looks like and if they can still be purchased . Thanks
quotejso2
ArboristSite Guru
I was just interested as to what the progressive gauge looks like and if they can still be purchased . T
quotejso2
ArboristSite Guru
I think of each individual cutter/depth gauge unit like a wood plane. If the cutter sticks out too much (low raker), it is grabby. If the cutter does not stick out far enough (high raker), it slips over the wood without cutting. If the cutter is sharp, and the depth gauges are set right, you get big wood curls and it is fun to use. If the cutter is dull, well . . .
A saw loop has 30, 40, or more of these individual cutters working sequentially in a 'chain' (!), passing on the chip cutting to the next one in line at 60 MPH(!). If one cutter is significantly lower or higher than the previous one, your term 'bounce' is probably right. If one cutter is lower than the one ahead and behind it, it may 'bridge' and not fully bite into the wood.
If you look at the cutters from the top, they are not rectangular, but trapezoidal. So if some cutters stick out farther to the side than others, they will have to work harder to open up the width of the kerf. It would be like using a hand saw with the teeth inconsistently set.
Due to the shape of the cutters, if they are the same length, they will also be the same height and the same width.
Same thing with the filing/grinding angles. If they are not the same, some cutters will be doing more work than others and the cut will be jumpy / more vibration. I am less concerned about whether they are 29 degrees or 31 degrees, as long as all the cutters on a loop are the same.
So you are right - the individual relationship is important. But if the cutters are not consistent, the chain will cut less smoothly and less efficiently.
JMHO
Philbert
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ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
I use a vice when hand filing and the only guide I use is for raker height. Its easier for me to keep angles correct using naked file with handle. Takes a bit to master getting depth correct but nothing obstructing my view helps me ! I tried file guides once never liked em.
LegDeLimber
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ditto that on flipping the saw in the vice. I've got one of the "all swivel" types.
Took a bit of getting used to the twirly jaws style at first,
but that sucker'll let you roll a saw or other things to an angle that can make a world of difference
in getting a good hand angle at what you're doing.
Might be easier to get at the chain with the bar at an uphill angle or something.
Also helps a bit too, before filling, to tighten up the chain, so it doesn't want to "squirm" as much.
Just don't (be like me) and forget to properly re tension it when finished.
also using a "magic marker"/felt tip to first color inside the cutter
can help you see where you're actually taking off the metal.
Not a plug for this co (don't know them) just a pic to show what vise type I was referring to.
Online Ironman Bench Vice 125mm Multi Purpose Discounts | Ironman Bench Vice 125mm Multi Purpose | Online @ Deals Direct.com.au
Took a bit of getting used to the twirly jaws style at first,
but that sucker'll let you roll a saw or other things to an angle that can make a world of difference
in getting a good hand angle at what you're doing.
Might be easier to get at the chain with the bar at an uphill angle or something.
Also helps a bit too, before filling, to tighten up the chain, so it doesn't want to "squirm" as much.
Just don't (be like me) and forget to properly re tension it when finished.
also using a "magic marker"/felt tip to first color inside the cutter
can help you see where you're actually taking off the metal.
Not a plug for this co (don't know them) just a pic to show what vise type I was referring to.
Online Ironman Bench Vice 125mm Multi Purpose Discounts | Ironman Bench Vice 125mm Multi Purpose | Online @ Deals Direct.com.au
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