cure for ethanol

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I buy non-ethanol premium for all my non-road gas burners. It costs about $.04 more per gal. than 10% ethanol premium. We can get it at all the stations down by the river that sell it mostly to the motor boat crowd.


If you can't get non-ethanol add sta-bil or seafoam. Both work well, I mostly used the seafoam.




Mr. HE:cool:
 
Star Tron, can't really claim it works great, but never had a problem since using it.

I swear by the star-tron. I started using it last fall in my snowmobile in fear of all the burn down's that been going on in this sleds with bad gas. Used it all season...no problems. So my wifes car has had this stumble for the last 50k miles. Everythings been replaced, plugs, cleaned injectors, cleaned maf, ete, etc. So for ####s and giggles I added the star-tron at max strength. The next day she comes home from work and tells me its gone. I could duplicate the chugging everytime, now I cant with that stuff.. Amazing. The way I see it is every 10 gals of gas you buy, there is 1 whole gal of ethanol floating around in the tank seperating sucking up water. It gets heavy and sits at the bottom. The star-tron does its job and lets it pass through the fuel system.
 
I haven't had any problem runnin etho/gas with Marine Formula STA-BIL added.

Just recently found a source for non-eth 91, but it's an hour away. Still worth it for me to make the trip and get three or four 5 gal cans. Biggest problem with ethanol in gas (besides the political stupidity), is storage for more than 2-3 months.
 
No…
The biggest problem(s) with ethanol blended fuel is that it attracts water, corrodes metal and metal alloys, degrades many plastic and rubber components, costs us considerably more (especially when you figure in government subsidies and how the use of corn has increased the price of near everything else), emits more smog producing contaminants, removes the bonding action of oils and lubricants, requires higher fuel system pressures, and delivers less power and lower mileage at higher engine destroying temperatures than non-ethanol blended fuel. Ethanol is one horrible, inefficient motor fuel… it’s a joke!
 
No…
The biggest problem(s) with ethanol blended fuel is that it attracts water, corrodes metal and metal alloys, degrades many plastic and rubber components, costs us considerably more (especially when you figure in government subsidies and how the use of corn has increased the price of near everything else), emits more smog producing contaminants, removes the bonding action of oils and lubricants, requires higher fuel system pressures, and delivers less power and lower mileage at higher engine destroying temperatures than non-ethanol blended fuel. Ethanol is one horrible, inefficient motor fuel… it’s a joke!
I agree with ya, man! It's horrible stuff!!!

My comment on storage, this is where it causes most of the problems for us small engine users. More time to attract water and corrode metal and prolonged contact with rubber / plastic parts when left in saws etc.

Even though I really haven't had any problems runnin the stuff, I am now trying to avoid it.
 
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Call your local marina and see what they sell.

i'm more of a lurker than a poster, but thought i'd tell a little experience 2 people i know have had. a friend bought a new-to-him boat with a 4 stroke evinrude. he was havin problems with power. when he'd hit the throttle, it would almost die out before taking off. run rough at half throttle. after tryin to figure it out, he took it to a marina. while standing there, the mechanic took off the fuel lines and showed my friend the inside of the lines. the ethanol in the gas attacks the fuel lines from the inside and rots them away. they looked brand new from the outside, but were messed up inside, and whenever he'd hit the throttle they were collapsing. the mechanic told him to either buy his fuel at a marina or buy the highest octane possible. another friend races dirt track in the UMP modified division and is running an e85 burning motor. he has been struggling with power problems for 2 seasons now. this year, his car just about dies out in the turns and then, half way down the straight it takes off. i told him about my friends problem. he said, " ya know, thats the only thing i havent looked at."he replaced all the fuel lines, and now he's tearing it up.
 
I am lucky, several stations here have E0 for the boating crowd. Try marinas, or street rod/antique car club.

I have NOT tried this, but it may work: since ethanol is water soluble and drops out once it reaches saturation (which is one of its major drawbacks) that tendency can be used against it. I have heard of adding a measured quantity of distilled water and shaking it up. After settling, the water and ethanol phase drops out to the bottom with gasoline above it. Basically that is the process for the cheap ethanol test kits.

Before all the flames start, disclaimer, I think it would work, but would be concerned about now water saturated gasoline layer that may drop out some water if it gets colder.

k
 
Sea Foam

I use regular gas with sea foam in it for everything from my fishing boat to chainsaws. I get to see what ethanol does to small engines all the time and there is now way I'm putting the stuff thru my equipment.
 
I don't think this is a good idea.

I have NOT tried this, but it may work: since ethanol is water soluble and drops out once it reaches saturation (which is one of its major drawbacks) that tendency can be used against it. I have heard of adding a measured quantity of distilled water and shaking it up. After settling, the water and ethanol phase drops out to the bottom with gasoline above it. Basically that is the process for the cheap ethanol test kits.

Before all the flames start, disclaimer, I think it would work, but would be concerned about now water saturated gasoline layer that may drop out some water if it gets colder.

k

I had looked into the attempt to strip the ethanol out of the blended fuel with water - and decided it was probably not a good idea. Gasoline is capable of pulling some of the water into the gasoline - so by adding water you are probably saturating the left over gasoline with as much water as it can pull into solution. Then when the temperature drops or some of the fuel evaporates the water may come out of solution.

I have been able to find a source of fuel without ethanol and use it. The COUNTRYMARK stores in Indiana have a 90+ fuel at some of their stores and it is ethanol free. It is a 3 hour drive round trip for me - but I take a couple of 55 gallon drums and add Sta-Bil and I only need to make the trip once year.

Don't rely on octane ratings or rumors about ethanol free fuel - test the fuel to be sure you are getting ethanol free fuel each time. A couple of years ago I went to a station where the local motorcycle shop bought all there fuel as they felt it was ethanol free - so I went to get some. When I tested it there was ethanol blended in at 10%. THe delivery truck was there and he confirmed that it had ethanol blended in. The delivery driver did tell me that they sell ethanol free 87 octane to the farmers and that worked for me one year - but their source of ethanol free fule is gone and I have to drive to Indiana to get good fuel.
 
I use regular gas with sea foam in it for everything from my fishing boat to chainsaws. I get to see what ethanol does to small engines all the time and there is now way I'm putting the stuff thru my equipment.

What's with the Sea Foam? I have been seeing it around a lot lately and the guy at the auto parts store told me to put a can in my truck to clean out the injectors. Does it also add lubricity to the fuel. How much would you add to say a one gallon mix?
 
The laws vary from state-to-state, and even city-to-city, so it would be a good idea to read the law relative to your respective area.

Iowa law requires any pump dispensing gasoline with an ethanol content of 1% or greater to be labeled, pumps dispensing multiple grades will have each selector labeled. For me it's a simple matter of pulling up to the pump and looking for the sticker/sign/label/etc. In my area of the state, and with a few exceptions in larger city areas, most all ethanol blended fuel is 89 octane... most all 87 and 90+ octane fuel is ethanol-free. Most of the convenience store type pumps (i.e. Casey's, Quick Star, Kum & Go, etc.) only have 87 and 89 octane fuels, but two local places have 91 octane. A 35-mile drive will get me 92 and 93 octane fuel, but I don't bother... I run the 91 in all my two-cycle engines and the 87 in everything else... no complaints.
 
Just bought me some Sea Foam today. You use about 2 oz. per gallon, so one bottle would do for one tank of gas in my truck - it's about a 16 oz bottle for $10. Not cheap, but probably saves money in the long run. I'll certainly use it in my mixed fuel for my 2-strokes, unless I can find a station nearby that sells E0. Not found anything so far.
 
Just bought me some Sea Foam today. You use about 2 oz. per gallon, so one bottle would do for one tank of gas in my truck - it's about a 16 oz bottle for $10. Not cheap, but probably saves money in the long run. I'll certainly use it in my mixed fuel for my 2-strokes, unless I can find a station nearby that sells E0. Not found anything so far.
Unk, if you don't use a lot of mix you can see it better in a half gallon whisky bottle, plastic/not glass. Keep it tightly closed and out of heat or direct sunlight. If the oil begins 2 drop out u will see it along with any water etc. You need a way of accurately measuring the oil tho and be aware these containers are only about 60 oz not 64.
 
Unc, you could probably find non ethanol fuel in one of your local saw shops. The guys around me carry Sunoco racing fuels in five gallon cans for about 65 bucks. Too pricy for me. Most Stihl dealers also carry premix with Stihl Ultra with no ethanol. I want to say 8 bucks a gallon but I am not sure. I have been running 10% ethanol in my saws with no problem. They always get drained and run dry at idle when they are done being used and I store my fuel in a dry area so it can't pick up moisture. I run premium 93 octane with Stihl Ultra and I don't keep it around more than a month or two. After that it goes in the tractor.
 
I run a small landscape business here in W. WA and have been using ethanol blended gas for years with no ill effect on my equipment. I don't store any equipment more than a week or so with gas in the tank. I run the heck out of line trimmers, mowers, and blowers and also run hedge trimmers and saws on a less frequent basis. I have yet to see the problems you guys are all talking about. I was in the automotive aftermarket as a manufacturing rep for about 20 years and my opinion of fuel additives is that you are wasting your money. If it makes you feel better using them, more power to you but I have never seen anything other than anecdotal evidence of their effectiveness. I'm on the 6th year of use on an Echo blower and a Shindawa trimmer that get heavy use 9 months out of the year and aside from a few carb kits, they run fine on the ethanol blends.
 
regional differences

I run a small landscape business here in W. WA and have been using ethanol blended gas for years with no ill effect on my equipment. I don't store any equipment more than a week or so with gas in the tank. I run the heck out of line trimmers, mowers, and blowers and also run hedge trimmers and saws on a less frequent basis. I have yet to see the problems you guys are all talking about. I was in the automotive aftermarket as a manufacturing rep for about 20 years and my opinion of fuel additives is that you are wasting your money. If it makes you feel better using them, more power to you but I have never seen anything other than anecdotal evidence of their effectiveness. I'm on the 6th year of use on an Echo blower and a Shindawa trimmer that get heavy use 9 months out of the year and aside from a few carb kits, they run fine on the ethanol blends.

Just going by anecdotals, but it appears that different areas of the nation just get different fuels. You can read this here and on other engine forums. Some areas the fuel just sucks and destroys equipment, other areas it seems to do OK. Well, plus, frequency of use, a big difference from run every day equipment and once a week or three times a year. It takes a little time for the fuel separation to occur, leading to the intank pickup getting dosed with mostly water and alcohol at the bottom. If it is fresh all the time, like what would happen with a commercial guy using his gear daily, this doesn't happen. But it *does* happen way more with ethanol fuel. Heck, you can smell it, it goes bad within weeks around here, and that is stored in good containers in the shade. I switched to non ethanol when I found a local distributor, but I also can see that gas is staler than fresh from the truck stop. Unfortunately the truck stop has only ethanol, so it is a compromise decision. I was using the truck stop fuel but it melts fuel lines and gunks equipment up. Happens fast, too. I'll tell you what made me switch, almost getting blown up. Ran a gennie one day, the kind with the gravity feed tank on the top, the fuel line had melted and it dropped off dumping raw fuel directly on the running gennie. I took a chance and ran over and switched it off then dumped it over on its side, because it was right next to a brand new barn fulla fresh baled hay. That line was just melted garbage. It "looked" OK from the outside, but running it, I guess the vibrations just finished it off and it fell out. Later I looked at it, looked like taffy. That was it for me, no more ethanol fuel in my small engines.

Want to read some good rants about red state welfare and vote buying brand fuel, go find some boating forums and see what ethanol did to guys expensive boat motors when they used that stuff with fiberglass gas tanks....engines that cost what a whole truck fulla landscaping equipment costs. And how about planes? If ethanol fuel was harmless, they would use it in planes, but they sure don't. Airports are ethanol free zones for a reason, well two reasons, performance, it just doesn't give the same power or range as non ethanol, and they need it to not screw anything up in their lycoming engines. Guys ain't risking their lives with that stuff. That's about as good of proof as exists in the ethanol versus non ethanol debate, it is just an inferior fuel for most applications and devices that burn fuel. It will work..it is just inferior and has problems associated with it that a million people have noticed now. Way way back when they first tried ethanol gas in regular cars during the oil crisis, it killed hundreds of thousands of cars quickly, as they weren't designed for it. Fell out of favor fast.

Now, an engine designed from the ground up to run on ethanol? Sure, it will work OK. Look at Brazil and their cars as an example, it works for them there, because their engines are designed for it. That list does not include any commonly sold in the USA small engines though. Some small tractor pullers and whatnot will run modded engines and carbs on methanol, but that isn't normal working tool use either and methanol is not ethanol.

With that said and just thinking about it right this second, maybe the small engine guys DO have engines designed for ethanol fuel use but only sell them in Brazil? I wonder if there are any differences and if there are brazilian parts to be acquired? They must run all the same sort of stuff we do, saws, trimmers, brushcutters, etc, and all their pumps put out very heavy ethanol fuel down there..hmm...
 
Just going by anecdotals, but it appears that different areas of the nation just get different fuels.

That may be part of it, but as you said, "...a big difference from run every day equipment and once a week or three times a year."

But another comparison is interesting. There's a huge difference between running ethanol blends in areas such as Woodinville, Washington where the normal climate change throughout the whole year barely exceeds a week-to-week difference where I live. We go from winter lows of well below zero and near 0% humidity to summer highs exceeding 100 degrees with well over 90% humidity. During certain times of the year temperatures can be 40 degrees on Tuesday and 85 degrees on Thursday, with a corresponding tripling of humidity levels. Under those conditions most any fuel is degraded rapidly, and ethanol blends will be virtually destroyed in just a few days.

But let's put that aside... it make no sense to pay more for less... Tell me what else you purchase that way? Brazil does not use corn for ethanol production... they don't burn their food crop... they use sugar cane. Ethanol from sugar cane costs only a third what ethanol from corn does... Sugar cane produces a higher grade of ethanol, at a higher volume, faster, cheaper, with less equipment and manpower.
 
That may be part of it, but as you said, "...a big difference from run every day equipment and once a week or three times a year."

But another comparison is interesting. There's a huge difference between running ethanol blends in areas such as Woodinville, Washington where the normal climate change throughout the whole year barely exceeds a week-to-week difference where I live. We go from winter lows of well below zero and near 0% humidity to summer highs exceeding 100 degrees with well over 90% humidity. During certain times of the year temperatures can be 40 degrees on Tuesday and 85 degrees on Thursday, with a corresponding tripling of humidity levels. Under those conditions most any fuel is degraded rapidly, and ethanol blends will be virtually destroyed in just a few days.

But let's put that aside... it make no sense to pay more for less... Tell me what else you purchase that way? Brazil does not use corn for ethanol production... they don't burn their food crop... they use sugar cane. Ethanol from sugar cane costs only a third what ethanol from corn does... Sugar cane produces a higher grade of ethanol, at a higher volume, faster, cheaper, with less equipment and manpower.

Oh, I know it is cheaper there, they don't pay squat down there and use a lot of human labor where in the US it is more mechanized (it is more human labor intensive there, not less...). You ain't getting a lot of roly poly USA fat people out in some fields with machetes/hoes/shoves/tools of mass production here for twenty five cent an hour....not happening at this time....

I wasn't talking about that so much as just the possibility that maybe they have small engines down there that can run without issue on high ethanol laced fuels. I just don't know one way or the other. I have read extensively about their vehicles there..but nothing about small engines. It just would be interesting to know if stihlvarna and all the others made engines that *could* run very well on ethanol blended fuels. On their websites they say "do NOT use fuel higher than 10% blend" yada yada, but down in Brazil it is common to have all the way to 100% ethanol at the pump from what I have read..so how do they operate their small engines???


OK, paying more for less...take a gander down the breakfast cereal aisle, read the fine print on ingredients, look at weights and measures, etc. and contemplate how much a bushel people are paying for flakes.... you can pretty much apply that to almost all heavily processed and packaged foods.

And that's one of many reasons I am against the food debit card scam as opposed to how they used to even out farm prices and help out poor folks. They used to buy up surplus in bumper years and stockpile it. This moderated prices and helped keep farmers from going broke, plus we had a really decent food cushion stockpiled, plus poor people got real food. They would go around in trucks and drop the food off, I know this because I helped and volunteered to distribute. Poor folks got cases of real food, enough to feed them, but not a lot of colorful packaging. Nothing fancy, just basic simple food. You had to cook it. A dollar bought a LOT more real food that way, and not near as much packaging/advertising/white collar exec profits.

Now they get food debit cards, and we have zero, nada, zilch in the way of a national emergency food stockpile, we go season to season now (that's just freekin scary) and people using those cards and the rest who pay for them are helping encourage and enable the three hundred dollar bushel of grain brand "food product" sold in stores now. Nuts. Steps backwards, less food for way more money. The product with the extra yard long list of chemical additives you have a hard time pronouncing, the "food" tied heavily to the wall street/chicago/wherever speculator scam commodities markets.

That's an example of paying WAY WAY more for less that is ultra common today.

Housing..I remember when the ten year note was the most common, and people tried to keep payments under 25% gross pay....another example. Now it is a 30 year note, and people wind up paying multiples of what they used to pay for a roof and walls. Cars...used to be 12 month financing on a new anything..now, what..60 months?


Some stuff is cheaper, you get a lot more for less, personal electronics comes to mind. but most everything else today costs a lot more than it used to for the equivalent.

Hmm, talking about fuel...when I started driving a gallon of lowball regular was five gallons to the dollar, or even cheaper (I bought some once at 12.9, topped my falcon off for two bucks...). If I recall adequately, a common entry level wage was around 90 cents an hour for a burger flipping type job, so that was 4-5 gallons of fuel an hour "pay". That was the lowest paid you could get I think. Now minimum rage pay is what, around eight bucks? That's only 2 gallons and change. Another example of paying more for less that is exceedingly common, and something that hurts poorer folks and people in the middle class more and rural people more than it used to.

Nope, back then the middle class was expanding and people were getting more every year, then around the lbj/noxon years it changed radically and it has been going downhill ever since, with the middle class gradually disappearing. that's the trend now and it is beyond obvious.

We went from being a producing nation with a well diverse and robust economy and the largest fastest growing middle class to a nation that is basically bankrupt now. We are so far in the hole you need floodlights and binoculars to see the top edge. All they are doing is kicking the can down the road, as the expression goes, the party is over. They offshored the wealth producing jobs for massive short term gains for the top 1%, exchanged the notion of "produced wealth" for credit, faking people out they are the same thing, when they are not.

It just ain't gonna work, it never would work, all sorts of contrarian economists and analysts pointed this out back then. (including me)

You just cannot printing press your way to wealth...it don't work. It never has and never will. And two class societies inevitably result in "social distress".
 
What's with the Sea Foam? I have been seeing it around a lot lately and the guy at the auto parts store told me to put a can in my truck to clean out the injectors. Does it also add lubricity to the fuel. How much would you add to say a one gallon mix?

there should be a chart on the can. i dont think it adds lubricity, but it will clean up the intake system. if ya really wanna clean up the intake and combustion chamber, pull off the vacuum brake line, fire up the vehicle, and suck in about 1-2 cups then shut the engine off quick. let it set for about 30 minutes then fire it up and let it ide for a bit. its gonna smoke like crazy, but itll clen up the top end a lot. on keeping the injectors clean, i have 232,000 on my 96 taurus and recently replaced the valve cover gaskets, which required removing the intake. i was pretty darn impressed with how clean everything was in there, and the injectors are still working great. still getting 27 mpg.
 
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