Dangerous Tree Comes Down

[Metals406]

I ain't trying to argue either Mike, I'm just frustrated.

My advice (and others) was never 'Leave it to the professionals', my advice was "Don't touch it at all, because the professionals wouldn't." But in return, we get a "LOL, we're gonna anyway" and "I'm taking all I can get no matter what" from the OP, and other guesses from the gallery on how they would do it. "They" aren't there -- and do "they" want the responsibility of giving internet falling advice that could very well be misconstrued, misapplied, and end in the injury or death of another person??

"Well you see, this guy on a website said to cut trees similar looking to this one, this way, and somehow it killed my son who was standing next to me? I don't understand, because they sounded like they knew what to do?"

That tree also didn't 'have to' come down, it was a choice to pluck it out for firewood.

There's is no, 'How can I do it and not die' advice that can be given over a computer, to someone with little to no experience, on a tree that should never be touched unless it was an actual necessity. Even then, that tree is a candidate for roping/cabling over, blasting, or a 100' lift.

Anyone catch the moral of my story about Sam? What was the big mistake he made? Anyone? I'll wait for some answers before I give it away.

 

[slowp]

Cody in and out of a limby, rotten, hornetty, cottonwood. Don't try this at home.

 

[Metals406]

I'm not sure what offended you, but I don't see that anyone claimed western loggers were dumb or incapable of cutting hardwood. I've no doubt at all that any good logger could come and cut anything I do. The point was that the response of "you're not qualified, you should leave that alone, and here let me show you a video of some pro faller in vastly different circumstances or tell you a story about a situation unlike anything you'll encounter" isn't really useful.

The OP's video made me cringe in several different ways, I've walked away from quite a few trees I decided were too dangerous and I don't make sloping back cuts like my dad does. I also got little new out of slowp's video or your story - there are not any 4' diameter 130' larches to turn into downhill missiles around here. Lots of nasty half dead ashes wrapped up with a dozen new invasive vines I can't recognize (along with the grapes and poison ivy), packed in with briers, wineberry and autumn olive on steep slopes covered with rock.

It seems like everyone on AS sees something to be offended by in every comment, and no one can communicate anymore.

You missed the point of the story. . . It had nothing to do with what tree species it was.

And the OP is not qualified -- everyone seems to think that's bad? Can he learn? Yep. Is a thread on Arboristsite the place for him to learn the intricacies of snag removal? Nope!

I can't do back surgery without killing the patient. Do you think I'm going to go to a Dr's forum and argue that "They're not the only ones that can do it" & "What's the best way to try back surgery?"

Being under qualified doesn't make someone a moron. What makes someone a moron, is not heeding good advice, given for their benefit, so they or someone else doesn't die.

And reread zogger's reply -- he indeed is saying westerners have no deciduous experience, because we cut conifers. . . And they're unrelatable besides both being cut with a chainsaw.

 

[Metals406]

I guess the main thing I was looking for was this:

"That tree looks dangerous"
"Nah I'm gonna cut it anyways"
" You see the crack going horizontally through the trunk about 4 foot up the tree?"
"No problem"
"Here is some advice on how to cut that tree and maybe escape with your life, I learned it on AS. First thing you want to do is walk away"
"Screw that I'm cutting it down"
"Ok then the next thing I learned on AS is..........don't do a sloping back cut"
"That's it? That's all you learned? Well here goes.............

You get my point? Someone is going to cut down a dangerous tree once in awhile. Me? Probably not but damn would I like to be able to give advice on how it might be done in a manner that is less likely to take a life or mangle someone.

Even a slight chance at improving a situation is better than no chance!

Any input is good input. Many minds are better than one.

Cheers and happy new year to everyone!

And that right there, Is where the only advice can be "Good luck with that stupid. Hang yourself, but you ain't using my rope. Take care!"

 

[Bushmans]

And that right there, Is where the only advice can be "Good luck with that stupid. Hang yourself, but you ain't using my rope. Take care!"

It is what it is. That may be the only sound advice in this situation. Believe me I'm not trying to argue a "correct" answer out of someone. I do believe that walking away is probably a good idea on many trees.
Just trying to learn which ones they are!
6 pages of replies and not one person said sure this is doable. I get the message.
Next time I see an ugly tree I'll ask again!
If that's OK with everyone?

 

[cantoo]

Bushmans, I have about a dozen maples that I need/ want/ whatever you wanna call it cut down at a neighbours property. They are all what I would call danger trees because of rot, cracking and broken out pieces and just the size of the trees. They are in a bush so no danger of dropping onto anything valuable other than me or bil. I've been looking at them for a few years now and have already cut one down. I took my time and the tree went right where I wanted and expected it to go. They will someday be cut down as I want them for firewood but am in no rush. I might cut them myself or I might have a "pro" come in and drop them but they will be cut down. It's posts like this that I learn from so don't worry what the pros or whoever say, post away.

 

[slowp]

Gotta post this video. A long one about conifer snags with steep ground, lean in the wrong direction, wedging, jacking, lining and a tree that doesn't want to go.

 

[GrassGuerilla]

Oh man. All the cliches! I can't take it.

OK, what drove me crazy about the video? I couldn't see a face cut. I assume there was one?
The guy had all the nice and pretty protective gear. He even had wedges. Why wasn't he using them? Where was his axe? That's as much a piece of safety equipment as that fancy hardhat.
He kept casually walking away, turning his back on the tree, grinning, while trying to hear what folks were yelling at him about.
Hint: Don't yell, throw rocks and sticks at the cutter or use a long stick to thump him on the hardhat with. (Read some of Randymac's threads where "Ray got my attention with a well aimed rock.") Rocks and sticks are also safety gear. He needs to turn off his saw, so he can hear you and any noises of doom from the tree. Don't turn your back on a tree like that.

Who owned the land? If it was me, I'd be thanking my lucky stars that nobody was hurt or killed and I'd be banning folks from any woodcutting. That looked like a lawsuit in the making.

The cutter needs to practice on sound, straightforward trees first and learn to use wedges, and not use Slopping Back Cuts.
Some of us were wondering if HBRN is now in Ohio...

I'm not a faller. I don't tackle any trees like that and I seldom fall any tree. I'm a retired forester and have seen some very skilled fallers work, and never anything like that on a timber operation.

I think the underlined part is dead on. I can only add that even after reading the first page entirely before watching the vid (and therefore realizing you lived) my palms were sweating as I watched. Glad all involved are still intact.

 

[Bushmans]

Yeah I lived. For the most part video cameras won't kill you. Keep reading!

 

[raycarr]

I love reading this kind of stuff.
This one wasn't as bad as some, the chest thumping "I'm a badass with a chainsaw" self congratulatory video, with HBNR adroitness, just kill me. Then when someone who actually knows what they are talking about, cuts in among the backslappers and adds a few corrective insights, red-faced farmer loggers get their backs up and the slippery slope gets steeper.
I am not a Pro, but I received one on one training from a man who was. Advice given must be backed up with experience, not supposition. As for the way some state their views or give advice, look past the gruff replies or blunt advice and see the hard won knowledge being shared.

 

[flyboy553]

Coming in to a thread and giving constructive critique is a good thing. Everyone can use good sound advice and then put it to use.

But when one comes in and gives that advice in a condescending, I know more than you worthless flatlanders attitude, well, what do you expect? Of course your going to get feathers riled big time. Assuming we don't know what we are talking about is a prime example of that! I imagine, since I have only been cutting firewood to the tune of 75-90 full cords a year for over 35 years, I have learned nothing about safe cutting. U can take your better than you attitude and park it where the sun doesn't shine!

If you are not able to give advice without putting someone down in the process, then just keep your advice over in the F&L forum. Thinking that we are supposed to just take your abuse somehow justifies your bullying. Well, I am done with it!

So, what your saying is your not a logger but you stayed at Holiday Inn last night! Woo Hoo!! Bully for you!

Ted

 

[zogger]

*Sigh*

I can see everything I say will be lost on you, but I'll give it one more try. And everyone wonders why the site is dying?

Matt has it right, someone asks, gets an opinion from someone qualified to answer -- and because they don't like the answer -- they ignore it or argue about it.

You seem to have a deciduous snobbery thing going on, which I certainly haven't brought up, but since you have. . .

You think that I have never cut hardwood of any kind, or that uneven loading or weighting isn't an issue in conifers?? Well, you would be about 400 different kinds of wrong. Conifers can be just as bad as any deciduous tree.

We have lots of hardwood here too, it's just in the city limits for the 'exotic' stuff. I have a poo load of Elm sitting outside my door right now. Believe it or not, I actually cut it myself, with a chainsaw. There's Maple, Oak, Locust, and quite a few others within my grasp, I just have to ask.

In the 'wild', we have Alder, Birch, Cottonwood. The Cottonwoods average 5' on the butt, some larger. So there I go ruining any size stereotype you might have.

Also, if you actually knew diddly squat about falling trees, you'd know that cutting any tree uses the same level of expertise, experience, & knowledge, and has nothing to do about what state you live in.
For you to say, "Y'all are ignorant of our way cause you don't cut 'X' kind of tree", is silliness. Why do you think Columbia Heli would bring fallers in from the west coast to Florida, Indiana, WV, etc to cut timber -- if it was too great a chasm for them to bridge? It's because they were alpha fallers, and you could put them anywhere to get the job done.

Y'all can just keep doing things how grandpappy did them till the cows come home if you want. Cause it works, and grandpappy was the best!!

We dumb western folks will just keep our stupid experience to ourselves, and let someone east of Nebraska answer everything.

I didn't imply anything other than what i said, not what you think I said. First a video of some skinny pine trees, where I DID say I thought it was an allright video for like a home movie enter5tainment thing, and the guy cut well. That is a compliment, not a put down to that faller. Just commented it didn't fit with this particlar situation very well. Around here all that skinny pine stuff would have been done with a crawler anyway, drive right down that line and knock them back the other way.....

Then a story about a big one sliding down a steep mountain..those didn't apply to the OPs situation other than trees are dangerous to cut, even the easy ones, and proper technique counts. The OP wasn't working on a mile high mountain. Nice story, brings home the absolute wildest things can happen, but wasn't relevant to his situation.

As to the snarky stuff, I just read it here, before I even joined the site, there is a common "laff at the culls" meme that is common in the F&L section, especially directed west to east. I was rather surprised when I first started here and was reading that jazz, but..it is what it is.. Been going on for years, you can see it. Long before I joined here. *They* started it, not me, ohh, how I dare notice that!



My constructive commentary was above, there exists a need for decent instructional videos that have good narrative with them, not just chainsaw noise or music.

I never advised the OP one way or the other besides saying I don't cut like that at head high, and I have used chains and ropes to bind the trunk on some trees, and also used guide ropes, etc where I could and it seemed necessary. I personally couldn't tell from the pics and vids if I would have attempted that tree, something hairy like that I would have to see in person.

 

[stihl sawing]

Well shoot, I'd cut that sucker too. Would have done it a little different, first not that high up and would tell the dude hollerin in the background to hush, I would have never turned around. always stay focused on the tree. Also would have looked up more for dead limbs falling.Going to get reamed for this, but I've cut a lot worse than that tree before. and a lot bigger. This thread is a good reason I never post a tree cutting video here. But I have the flame suit on so fire away.

 

[slowp]

I failed to use the ski school method of build up the ego to a high place first, then criticise and bring it back down to the normal line.

90 cords a year equates to 9 log trucks. A production faller cuts quite a bit more than that in a year--just sayin'. Need a hearts and flowers happy times emoticon here.

What should we do when watching a video? Make crude, junior high boy remarks and congratulate the cutter on how he got it on the ground, it made a nice noise, good for you? Post this in reply..opcorn:. One needs to go forth in a learning progression. Start with a basic deciduous tree, fall it with the lean, work on basic skills. By the way, I've been rediculed for my stumps. I expect it.
They aren't pro like and I'm not a pro at falling unless you count my time on a thinning crew with small trees. Lodgepole is fun!
Oh, I did have a mental list in my head, still do, of guys I feel safe about being near while they are cutting (and they know I'm there) and guys who are not. Some are skilled, but their safety attitude sucks.

The story of the conifer known as Larch? I get that it was posted to show what can happen if you turn your back on something you percieve to be safe, yet you are standing in a bad spot--down below the steep hillside, and things go a bit south and you. Kind of like having a rotten tree sawed almost through, turning your back on it and concentrating on what somebody is trying to say.

 

[chuckwood]

Unfortunately trees like this one will be cut down forever by plenty of inexperienced people. Some will not go as planned. This tree is in my wood pile but if I would have had to fell it then it would still be there. I have only felled maybe 20 trees in my saw time. I take the easy ones. It's easy to sit back and say leave everything to the professionals but you know it ain't gonna happen. I almost wish you needed a license to own a chainsaw and that would at least require a few hours of basic training. No one taught me how to cut a tree down. It's all self taught.

Many years ago, my first saw was a 65cc Husky with a 24 inch bar. There was no internet, and it didn't occur to me that I needed info on how to fell a tree safely. I made no face cut, just a back cut all the way through. I had some barber chairs, bent and pinched bars, and thought that was just something trees did every now and then. The dumbest and luckiest thing I ever did was cut down a huge, leaning, hollow oak tree with a single back cut, came down pretty as you please. Some years later, I found out that cutting trees is no way as simple as it looks. Today, I'm just as overly careful as I used to be overly stupid.

In Germany, you need a license to buy and use a chainsaw, and you have to take a safety course to get it. I suppose they figure that since the government pays your medical bills, they have the right to insist you know what you are doing first.

 

[flyboy553]

I failed to use the ski school method of build up the ego to a high place first, then criticise and bring it back down to the normal line. And I failed to bow down and worship the ground you walk on solely because you live out west and have been around fallers who are pro's.

90 cords a year equates to 9 log trucks. This is wrapped around my full time job as a heavy equipment operator. Just sayin. If I did this full time of course I would cut more than that. A production faller cuts quite a bit more than that in a year--just sayin'. Need a hearts and flowers happy times emoticon here.


I never once have said what they did in that video was good, fun to watch, or the right way to do it. The only thing that got me ticked off in all of this is the condescending attitude of you guys from the F&L forum. And when we take offense to your attitude, then you make US the snobs! Your good! lol If you want to actually be of good use here, then give your advice without trying to make us think you are SO SO SO much superior to us! If that's too hard for you to do, then stay the h*ll up in the F&L forum, where you can sit around and tell each other how darn good and smart you all are. That's not asking too much.

Ted

 

[cre10]

Be careful turning your back on a tree.

 

[cantoo]

I wanna know when we get to vote someone off the Island?

 

[Blazin]

I wanna know when we get to vote someone off the Island?

 

[treeslayer2003]

not tryin to get in this argument here but there are east coast fallers on the F&L side and we do talk to the west coast folks without a big fight. yea, we all do some things different but please folks there really is no need for this east vs west thing ive been seeing. I think maybe some of us on both coasts may have some saw chips on our shoulders and just waitin for someone to say sumthing that could be misconstrued. a little step back from that thinking may be in order here, to just talk to each other like we don't know where each other is from.