Dealer says 441 M-Tronics are junk

[Metals406]

So, I went to my local Stihl Dealer the other day looking for an 044 ignition module (no dice on a used one), and got to talking with the head tech.

I told him I had seen a video (from a member here) of a ported 441 M-Tronic that was pretty mean. He told me that they were junk, and every one they sent out the door had problems and was returned.

His words were, "All the loggers hate them, and they've been nothing but trouble." He said they would rev up and down uncontrollably, and not consistently, just here and there. He also said they were having other issues, like not wanting to start.

He did say he couldn't speak for a ported one, but the stock ones were a headache for the dealer, and a bunch were sent back to their distributer, and they were given credit.

The tech said he wondered why Stihl messed with a good thing (660's, 440's, 460's, etc), and he figured it was the EPA with their dirty hands in it all -- forcing unneeded change.

I was thinking about picking up a 441 M-Tronic eventually, but now I'm no too sure.

 

[TK]

Stihls are impenetrable. Don't listen to the tech, listen to the masses on AS. The masses are always right

 

[wigglesworth]

opcorn:

 

[belgian]

Call me old school, but I like to control things myself and not having to depend on some magical black box to decide how and when I work.

But I am sure if there are problems with the M-Tronic, they will be sorted out by Stihl. I always stay clear of buying the first series of a new development....90% of the cases need finetuning or redesign, regardless of brand or type of equipment.

 

[Metals406]

Stihls are impenetrable. Don't listen to the tech, listen to the masses on AS. The masses are always right

I wish that were true!

 

[TK]

Call me old school, but I like to control things myself and not having to depend on some magical black box to decide how and when I work.

But I am sure if there are problems with the M-Tronic, they will be sorted out by Stihl. I always stay clear of buying the first series of a new development....90% of the cases need finetuning or redesign, regardless of brand or type of equipment.

If Stihl's M-Tronic is anything like Husky's AutoTune, then you'll love it. I felt the same way. I wanted that control. I wanted that screwdriver. Ran an AutoTune saw and now I don't want to go back. I just want to cut and not deal with any of the other crap. It works that good.

I wish that were true!

Hang around here long enough and you'll take it as the gospel!

 

[spacemule]

Call me old school, but I like to control things myself and not having to depend on some magical black box to decide how and when I work.

But I am sure if there are problems with the M-Tronic, they will be sorted out by Stihl. I always stay clear of buying the first series of a new development....90% of the cases need finetuning or redesign, regardless of brand or type of equipment.

So, I guess you like points ignition then. Or handsaws too for that matter, since even points ignition has little black box coils. :msp_tongue:

 

[Andyshine77]

So, I went to my local Stihl Dealer the other day looking for an 044 ignition module (no dice on a used one), and got to talking with the head tech.

I told him I had seen a video (from a member here) of a ported 441 M-Tronic that was pretty mean. He told me that they were junk, and every one they sent out the door had problems and was returned.

His words were, "All the loggers hate them, and they've been nothing but trouble." He said they would rev up and down uncontrollably, and not consistently, just here and there. He also said they were having other issues, like not wanting to start.

He did say he couldn't speak for a ported one, but the stock ones were a headache for the dealer, and a bunch were sent back to their distributer, and they were given credit.

The tech said he wondered why Stihl messed with a good thing (660's, 440's, 460's, etc), and he figured it was the EPA with their dirty hands in it all -- forcing unneeded change.

I was thinking about picking up a 441 M-Tronic eventually, but now I'm no too sure.

Like most dealers, even the good ones are still worse than used car salesman, he's full of ####. Likely a bigger price margin with the older saws. Pure ignorance for the most part, people like that always have someone to blame for their own incompetents, must be Obama's fault too.

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

Look at the resale prices of the non electronic carbs based saws there going up because of their reliability. The op mention a used 044 coil, how much is one of the fancy carbs if ethanol eats it.The 044 has a loyal following and the parts to keep people going for a long time. If it is not broken why fix it:msp_confused:

 

[belgian]

So, I guess you like points ignition then. Or handsaws too for that matter, since even points ignition has little black box coils. :msp_tongue:

Space, evolution in technology is a good thing and makes our daily life much easier and more comfortable, no doubt about that. But on the other hand, you become so dependable on third parties since nothing can be repaired by yourself anymore.... going from electronic equipment to bigger stuff like cars. And dependance means : being at the mercy of your parts supplier, both technically and $$$$$ wise.

Question is : do I need that new fancy electronic stuff to make my saw run better ? That question can easily be answered if you jump from a hand saw to early chainsaw, or from points to electronic ignition, but I am not so sure about switching from electronic to M-tronic. Time will tell.

PS. Being able to repair stuff myself, has saved me a ton of money in my life...

 

[Andyshine77]

Space, evolution in technology is a good thing and makes our daily life much easier and more comfortable, no doubt about that. But on the other hand, you become so dependable on third parties since nothing can be repaired by yourself anymore.... going from electronic equipment to bigger stuff like cars. And dependance means : being at the mercy of your parts supplier, both technically and $$$$$ wise.

Question is : do I need that new fancy electronic stuff to make my saw run better ? That question can easily be answered if you jump from a hand saw to early chainsaw, or from points to electronic ignition, but I am not so sure about switching from electronic to M-tronic. Time will tell.

PS. Being able to repair stuff myself, has saved me a ton of money in my life...

Yes, everything evolves from humans, cars to computers, that's the way it is and always will be. Some chose to evolve with things, others chose to be left behind. I've yet to dig into an M-tronic carb, but if I had to guess they're as simple as could be. Sure it will take some time for people to get use to the idea, just like it did with strato saws. Remember not so long ago the world was coming to an end with them new fancy strato saws lol. Now it's almost a non topic. Boy that word strato sure was scary, even before anyone knew how they worked, or how simple they really are. You see it's natural for some to fear what they don't understand, and some simply lack the mental capacity to learn new things. This is also the root of hate, as it's easier to hate something, than it is to make the effort to understand something.:msp_smile:

 

[Stihlman441]

The only thing that is no good is your dealer.

 

[wigglesworth]

Yes, everything evolves from humans, cars to computers, that's the way it is and always will be. Some chose to evolve with things, others chose to be left behind. I've yet to dig into an M-tronic carb, but if I had to guess they're as simple as could be. Sure it will take some time for people to get use to the idea, just like it did with strato saws. Remember not so long ago the world was coming to an end with them new fancy strato saws lol. Now it's almost a non topic. Boy that word strato sure was scary, even before anyone knew how they worked, or how simple they really are. You see it's natural for some to fear what they don't understand, and some simply lack the mental capacity to learn new things. This is also the root of hate, as it's easier to hate something, than it is to make the effort to understand something.:msp_smile:

FWIW..............


I hate strato's too........

 

[Metals406]

Like most dealers, even the good ones are still worse than used car salesman, he's full of ####. Likely a bigger price margin with the older saws. Pure ignorance for the most part, people like that always have someone to blame for their own incompetents, must be Obama's fault too.

I've known the tech quite a while, and take him at his word. This ain't his first rodeo, and he's built race-saws to bikesaws.

If he says they're having problems, I believe him.

We're also cutting from 3,200 feet up to 7,000. . . Might be an elevation deal.

 

[Metals406]

The only thing that is no good is your dealer.

I think there's more to it mate.

 

[blsnelling]

Many of us are change resistant. It's human nature. But look at history. Those changes will be come the norm, and the old ways obviously inferior many times. I don't thing strato saws or electronically controlled carbs any different. We're only going to see more of it.

 

[Metals406]

I'm leaning more on the side of hurry up and wait. A lot of beta stuff has bugs. . . I'm sure this autotune stuff will either bomb, or become bulletproof, only time will tell.

I sure ain't encouraged to run out and get one right now though.

 

[Andyshine77]

I've known the tech quite a while, and take him at his word. This ain't his first rodeo, and he's built race-saws to bikesaws.

If he says they're having problems, I believe him.

We're also cutting from 3,200 feet up to 7,000. . . Might be an elevation deal.

Could be, but sometimes when people get an idea in their heads something is bad, no matter what the truth is, it's a POS. I see this all the time, with all walks of life.

To stir the pot some more the Husky auto tune seems smoother and smarter, IMHO it's the better of the two systems.otstir:

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

I'm leaning more on the side of hurry up and wait. A lot of beta stuff has bugs. . . I'm sure this autotune stuff will either bomb, or become bulletproof, only time will tell.

I sure ain't encouraged to run out and get one right now though.

Well said Give it 10 years and see if it is viable. The EPA killed the car industry and now they are doing it to the saw market. Time to hoard a few of the really good saws before they become illegal to sell.

 

[blsnelling]

Could be, but sometimes when people get an idea in their heads something is bad, no matter what the truth is, it's a POS. I see this all the time, with all walks of life.

And we have proven over time, that the 441 is one example of exactly that. For a long time all you read was how much weaker the 441 was and how it didn't take to mods. That was simply not the truth, period. It was nothing more than fear and/of lack of understanding what was new.