disappointed iin windsor chain

[tdi-rick]

The Windsor Matt has sent me in the past has held up really well in tough old Box.

I was sceptical at first as it sharpened more easily than Carlton but held up well in use.
It's also quite a bit smoother in the cut than Carlton, maybe on a par with RMC.

 

[masculator]

If you want a few 84 dl 63a windsor and carlton chains that have only been sharpened about 3 times (by hand so they are still 95%) you are welcome to them I will swap them for stihl any day Matt. As I said stihl might not be the hardest but they work and cut smoother, faster and better. I even tried another brand of chain which had a chamfered corner (like a semi chisel but with a 45 degree bevel instead of a round shoulder) and can say that it was one of the worst chains I have used, 2 cuts it was blunt in small redgum, despite the bloke I bought it off swearing how good it was and how long it cuts for (gave it away with a bar to a bloke who needed one, he couldn't believe how much better the stihl was when he put one on afterwards.)

Anyway I am a saw doctor/tool maker by trade and have seen it all as far as chain goes including about 4 different brands of carbide chain (which is a waste of time unless you are grinding stumps, not something I want to do with my saws thanks.)

stihl for me please.!! Gb, stihl or cannon as far as bars go.

 

[masculator]

The Windsor Matt has sent me in the past has held up really well in tough old Box.

I was sceptical at first as it sharpened more easily than Carlton but held up well in use.
It's also quite a bit smoother in the cut than Carlton, maybe on a par with RMC.

the windsor I have cuts well, it just doesn't stay sharp, the carltons I have cut crap but stay sharp longer. I reckon I could almost take the rakers off the carlton completely and still pull a 25 inch bar with an 034 (56.5cc) at full leverage (well maybe not but you get what I mean.)

 

[tdi-rick]

This is some info from Nik Bailey about eighteen months ago on here

Oregon/Carlton Chain Facts

Here is the skinny between the Oregon factory/Carlton factory.

As of today, almost all Oregon branded chain made in North America is produced in their Oregon plants in Portland and Guelph. The only exception is the new 91VXL in which the cutter is made in the Carlton plant in Portland. All Carlton chain is still produced in the Carlton plant in Portland, except for the 1/4" pitch chain, which is made in the Oregon plant. Some of the Windsor chain is a true hybrid, with some parts coming from the Oregon plant in Portland and much of the assembly taking place in the Carlton plant.

As of February 2008, all of our WoodlandPro branded chain is made in the Carlton plant, except the 1/4" pitch.

As far as I know, all Stihl chain is made in their Swiss plant, except some of their .404 chain, which comes from Brazil.

and from August last year

As of very recently, all Windsor is made in the old Carlton factory, except the low profile, which is made in the Oregon factory. So going forward, all Windsor branded chain and Carlton branded chain (except 3/8" lo pro) will be essentially the same.

 

[MCW]

If you want a few 84 dl 63a windsor and carlton chains that have only been sharpened about 3 times (by hand so they are still 95%) you are welcome to them I will swap them for stihl any day Matt. As I said stihl might not be the hardest but they work and cut smoother, faster and better. I even tried another brand of chain which had a chamfered corner (like a semi chisel but with a 45 degree bevel instead of a round shoulder) and can say that it was one of the worst chains I have used, 2 cuts it was blunt in small redgum, despite the bloke I bought it off swearing how good it was and how long it cuts for (gave it away with a bar to a bloke who needed one, he couldn't believe how much better the stihl was when he put one on afterwards.)

Anyway I am a saw doctor/tool maker by trade and have seen it all as far as chain goes including about 4 different brands of carbide chain (which is a waste of time unless you are grinding stumps, not something I want to do with my saws thanks.)

stihl for me please.!! Gb, stihl or cannon as far as bars go.

Nah that's fine mate. I've got heaps of chain Chain brand preference is certainly highly subjective. I even have some Chinese chain here that is right up there with some of the best chain I've used.
You're right about the carbide chain. I know a few people that have paid the earth for it then think it will cut through nails, steel posts, fencing wire etc but complain that they've snapped off a heap of tungsten inserts! I'm with you, I won't be using any of my saws as a trench digger that's for sure...

 

[masculator]

Sorry Matt didn't read your post correctly, The windsors I have are meant to be 63A.

 

[spike60]

I think Blount owns both Oregon and Windsor !?!?

Exactly, and a close inspection will reveal that Windsor and Oregon LG or whatever use the same exact cutter.

Granted, the OP got a soft loop of chain, but to imply that all Windsor chain is no good is real narrow minded IMO.

Sadly, this type of wisdom seems to happen all the time on the site anymore. Lot's of broad conclusions being drawn from very limited facts or experience.

 

[masculator]

Exactly, and a close inspection will reveal that Windsor and Oregon LG or whatever use the same exact cutter.

NO they are not the same and you are welcome to visit my back shed and I will prove it!!!! to the uneducated mug who cuts 5 cubic metres of firewood a year they might look the same, But I can show you quite distinct differences in the ones I have. These differences may seem trivial and may look like nothing but they make a big difference to how they perform.

 

[CentaurG2]

Never noticed much difference between winsor, Oregon or stihl chain in .375. They all cut wood, they all sharpen with a round file and they all wear out. I do notice a slight difference in price and ease of availability between stihl and the other brands.

 

[masculator]

OK Rick, your last post makes a difference the windsor I have was bought before last august and may have been made well before then. THUS it may be different again to the new stuff.

 

[MCW]

NO they are not the same and you are welcome to visit my back shed and I will prove it!!!! to the uneducated mug who cuts 5 cubic metres of firewood a year they might look the same, But I can show you quite distinct differences in the ones I have. These differences may seem trivial and may look like nothing but they make a big difference to how they perform.

There are likely to have been a few variations over the years though. You possibly have older stock as the cutters on the Windsor I have are also different to Oregon semi chisel. Windsor chain had an excellent reputation in the old days before being bought out and bastardised (in my opinion) by Blount.
It also pays to remember that a lot of people here also spend a lot of time on saws - there isn't always a right or wrong answer. Stihl chain may be your preference but in my experience Carlton and Windsor will outlast it (in semi chisel) when the going gets grubby. I am a long way from the only one with this opinion in our hardwoods too. A number of full time firewood cutters up the Darling in NSW have changed from Stihl RMC to Carlton EP. Not only because of a rip off Stihl dealer in Mildura but also on durability. In saying that a few guys have also stuck with Stihl chain. Horses for courses

 

[masculator]

There are likely to have been a few variations over the years though. You possibly have older stock as the cutters on the Windsor I have are also different to Oregon semi chisel. Windsor chain had an excellent reputation in the old days before being bought out and bastardised (in my opinion) by Blount.
It also pays to remember that a lot of people here also spend a lot of time on saws - there isn't always a right or wrong answer. Stihl chain may be your preference but in my experience Carlton and Windsor will outlast it (in semi chisel) when the going gets grubby. I am a long way from the only one with this opinion in our hardwoods too. A number of full time firewood cutters up the Darling in NSW have changed from Stihl RMC to Carlton EP. Not only because of a rip off Stihl dealer in Mildura but also on durability. In saying that a few guys have also stuck with Stihl chain. Horses for courses

Agreed, I spent a fair bit of time cutting Iron bark up around Coonabarabran years ago and we used to use everything out of the tree, the bark we would cut into totems for pot plants, the logs would be cut up into posts or firewood (depending on the tree.) the tops were all cut up for firewood down to about 3 inch diameter, so we needed chains that worked well, especially cutting the bark into totems. What I do now is quite a bit different to then and is even more different to what I did in western australia, south australia and the south coast of nsw. Nowdays I cut a lot of stringy, box and some ash for firewood but I also mill a large number of cubic meters of slabs of other things including bulloak, sheaoak, blackwood, redgum(when I can) silver wattle and other things. So I get to see a fair spread of timbers and with what I have seen of the lot of them I get the best overall performance from the stihl, not necessarily the most durable, but consistent, reliable, and I find in my slabs at least it gives a nicer finish, probably not something a firewood cutter would care too much about, but as I say I have tried the others and it is my preference, not to say the others don't work cause they do, but I have my reasons why I like it more than the others.

 

[spike60]

NO they are not the same and you are welcome to visit my back shed and I will prove it!!!! to the uneducated mug who cuts 5 cubic metres of firewood a year they might look the same, But I can show you quite distinct differences in the ones I have. These differences may seem trivial and may look like nothing but they make a big difference to how they perform.

Could be different over on the other side of the planet, but current production here in the states is as I've stated, at least on the 73 series chain. May not be across the board for all types.

 

[Bob Wright]

The whole brand tribality (is that a word?) thing is quite amusing at times, especially with a backdrop of buyouts and borderline incestuous tie-ups between factories, owners, and the brands they produce. Sure, I'm ranting off topic but it just shgits me there is so much fat (that we are all paying for) in the chainsaw market that owners X decide they can turn more bucks by having brand x, y, and z, all made at the same factory while also making brands A and B for brand D, and buying the company that makes brand C. Geeze, it's enough to drive a man to drink.

I am sure chainsaw chain is no different than anything else made today. My welding wire i use is made in the USA from parts from 27 other countries. The gasoline i made was shipped to 32 different brands and it all came from the same tank. The " American Made" motorcycle parts i weld at work have parts made in countries i can't pronounce. So nothing different. All the parent companies think is we have a factory and can do this, this and this and no one will know...Bob

 

[indiansprings]

We go thru a fair amount of chain in a year. Lot of dirty wood and a **** load of sharpening. As far as full chisel we like Stihl hands down.
When you get to the semi-chisel we use a bunch of Woodland Pro/Carlton, as some have said it is not the sharpest out of the box, but it will sharpen up and cut as good as Stihl semi chisel, it doesn't seem to be quite as hard as the Stihl but the longer tooth usually gives us more filings/chain life. I like the Carlton better than the Oregon, you can get oregon nasty sharp (lgx) but it seems soft to me, it doesn't last as long for us. It's pretty much Stihl for the chisel here and woodland pro for the semi chisel. I have got one or two loops of chain in my life that weren't up to snuff, but that's been over 30 years. I wouldn't let the expierence chase me off buying more loops of the Windsor branded chain.
I'd put it on a grinder and make sure I got the right angle going.
Although I a dang good hand filer, I've been off before on a bad day. The guys pick up on anything but a razor sharp chain pretty quick when it's what they are used too, they give me hell pdq.

 

[Justsaws]

Could be different over on the other side of the planet, but current production here in the states is as I've stated, at least on the 73 series chain. May not be across the board for all types.

Windsor brand chain quality is not what it was 10 years ago. I picked up some returned and refunded/exchanged loops and would have to say that dollar for dollar they are about even with Tri-Link chain. The Tri-Link/Silver Streak will hold the edge better but is a slower cutting chain.

Windsor 3/8 x .063 semi chisel or as it should be called compared to Oregon and Stihls newest chains, Windsor Fast Wear Chipper.

Might be the same cutter blanks but I think they skipped part of the finishing process.

What possible reason would Oregon have to sell equal quality chain to its newest Oregon grind under the Windors brand which typically retails cheaper?

Could be some bad batchs but I think it is simply the difference between a parent company maintaining it's primary brand value while offering a recognizable brand as it's generic to the people who will not buy the primary brand. That and it keeps the feds off their back.

 

[indiansprings]

Justsaws, don't doubt your expierence at all, but it would surprise me that they would change something in the mfg process as it would cost them money to shut down and do a different setup. I just say that based on being in crap loads of mfgs all over the world. When buying sporting goods for WM, I was surprised when I toured a leading brand of golf ball factory that the xxx outs were the exact same quality of the 1st quality ball. They explained they just added the xxxx stamp, as they had to maintain a specific volume to supply the demand. There was no difference at all. I've seen it as well on other products being mfg'd. The only thing I can think of that would explain the different performance if it is the exact same tooth is maybe a step in the tempering process.

 

[Justsaws]

I am not sure how much they would have to change if they were simply still making the same old Windsor chain.

Windsor and Carlton were good chains 10 years ago, however compared to the newest chains by the other brands they are dated, in both performance and durabilty.

Do not get me wrong, if I find a good deal on Windsor and Carlton, for that matter Tri-Link chains, I will buy it. What I am saying is, if I paid anywhere near the same price for those brands as I would typically pay for a Oregon or Stihl chain these days I would be dissappointed in the Windsor, Carlton and Tri-link.

Windsor prepacks are currently priced about the same as the Silver Streak(Tri-Link) pre-packaged chains, I have a hard time believing that is not a purposeful choice.

 

[SawTroll]

I got my first windsor chain on the way to cut a tree for my cousin... all the shop by her house had was windsor, figure it cant be that bad, buy one, put it wood, 3 cuts later dull... sharpen, then 3 more cuts... now Im confused.. its a decent sized cottonwood that Im cutting up, not full of rocks either.... went to the other shop 20 miles down the road, bought 2 LGX chains, far superior in edge holding...can actually go a full tank with the LGX.. is all windsor so soft?

That fits very well with my limited experience with Windsor chain (just a pair of .325 semi-chisel) - but that doesn't mean that all windsor chain is bad....

 

[MCW]

That fits very well with my limited experience with Windsor chain (just a pair of .325 semi-chisel) - but that doesn't mean that all windsor chain is bad....

That's very true Sawtroll. I rate Stihl's RSC as the best full chisel I've tried in 3/8". In 3/8"LP though the Stihl chain is garbage and Carlton kicks it's butt. In 3/8" semi chisel I rate all of them as adequate however am a big fan of Carlton and Windsor. I've been running these chains side by side with Stihl RMC day in day out and don't think that the RMC holds up as well. Still nice chain, pays it's way, but also too expensive here in Oz from 98% of Stihl dealers. I've also been running some non Tri-Link Chinese chain and it is really good stuff.
Despite what many people think or would like to believe not one single manufacturer has got all bases won and sewn up in either saws, bars, or chains...