Disastrous leaks....

[trialanderror]

With a non-pressured system, and excluding freezing damage

has anyone, or know of anyone, that went to check their stove, and discovered it was completely empty?

I need to find out how often this occurs; more or less if it's a serious concern.

leaks leaks leaks, everyone talks about leaks. I mentioned the idea about using oil, or if you wanted to be EPA happy and were money bags, use veg oil or something of that nature. But the biggest concern is a spill! So, who's lost hundreds of gallons of water in their system?

 

[Circle B MN]

:jawdrop:...you spoke of the unspeakable.





Can't say I have experienced or even heard of it, but the thought has crossed my mind. Unless you were around to try to contain the situation, I believe the end results would in fact be "other than good".

 

[swyman]

Had a hose clamp break and I lost about 250 gallons out of my CB 6048. Luckily I caught it quick and did not do any damage.

 

[trialanderror]

hose clamp? rubber? 375 degrees?

i was thinking threaded steel pipe, couplers, elbows and unions....not often does pipe and fittings break or become loose. steel because it's thick, sturdy, won't melt, won't temper with heat (what little is being generated for the application).


edit*
btw you said "a" hose clamp break. Murphys law never fails. always double clamp. two clamps snug is better then 1 clamp so tight it's on the verge of breaking.

 

[Circle B MN]

hose clamp? rubber? 375 degrees?

i was thinking threaded steel pipe, couplers, elbows and unions....not often does pipe and fittings break or become loose.

Unless you plan on not using PEX anywhere in your system, a clamp of some type will be used. Where is the 375 degrees measured at..? The circulating water is usually close to 180.

 

[trialanderror]

Unless you plan on not using PEX anywhere in your system, a clamp of some type will be used. Where is the 375 degrees measured at..? The circulating water is usually close to 180.

I'm not talking about water Oil my friend. Oil.

And i'm using Logstor pipe, and not 1 hose clamp is used. o-ring compression threaded fittings to threaded copper sweats. On the OWB side, lgostor pipe goes to steel threaded pipe.

 

[Valkyrie Rider]

Unless you plan on not using PEX anywhere in your system, a clamp of some type will be used. Where is the 375 degrees measured at..? The circulating water is usually close to 180.

There are many types of Pex connections. At work we use Stadler/Viega. They don't use clamps but rather a speave that is crimped sort of like a hydraulic hose is. It is NOT going to come loose. That system uses all bronze fittings and stainless steel "crimp" rings.

 

[Valkyrie Rider]

I'm not talking about water Oil my friend. Oil.

And i'm using Logstor pipe, and not 1 hose clamp is used. o-ring compression threaded fittings to threaded copper sweats. On the OWB side, lgostor pipe goes to steel threaded pipe.

Not familiar with what you are trying to do. Is this some sort of oil feed into an OWB setup? Being in the plumbing/heating world.... we either use pipe thread connections or flare connections. In 5 years, I've never had a leaky joint on either.

 

[trialanderror]

Everyone is confused.

I'm going to experiment with my small OWB to heat OIL instead of water.

The reason? Oil will take MUCH higher temps before boiling without the need of high pressures. To acheive water to 400F requires nearly 280PSI. I'd rather have a leak instead of an atomic bomb.

One problem is some oils will boil in the 400 degree range, and that's beyond melting points of some low temp solder joints.

another,the first thing that blasts out of peoples mouths is 'what if it spills on the ground?'

Alright. Is olive oil hazardous if it's spilled? No.
Problem solved.

Next up is leaks. If high quality fittings are used, chances of leaks are extreme minimal to none.

So, is there any reason to not try heating oil?

 

[trialanderror]

i guess my next question is beyond the scope of this site.

I'm going to have to do google and hit some other forums, and maybe irc channels to find out what happens with cooking oils as they're heated, if oxygen exposure changes anything, etc. I wouldn't think it would matter, not 'cooking' with it, just moving it around to exchange heat....

Or if extreme peroids of extreme heat will result in seperation and making of sludge, etc.

 

[ericjeeper]

I have to know.. What type of tubing/pipe are you planning on pushing this 300 plus liquid through. I mean from the OWB to the house?

 

[trialanderror]

I have to know.. What type of tubing/pipe are you planning on pushing this 300 plus liquid through. I mean from the OWB to the house?

ugh. again. steel pipe, steel couplers, steel elbows, steel unions. steel. Insulated with fiberglass.

 

[pinemartin]

Better hope you don't have a leak in your fire box EVER or your atomic bomb scenario will happen.

 

[trialanderror]

bah, it wouldn't explode. last weekend i experimented and threw in a gallon of oil and it just smoldered and burned. Threw in a qt jug that had a bit of gasoline in it, closed the door, nothing happened...
hours later opened the door, jug is burned up, wood is ashes,,,,no explosion...

 

[ericjeeper]

bah, it wouldn't explode. last weekend i experimented and threw in a gallon of oil and it just smoldered and burned. Threw in a qt jug that had a bit of gasoline in it, closed the door, nothing happened...
hours later opened the door, jug is burned up, wood is ashes,,,,no explosion...

Heck fire you have all the answers. Why ask us. By the way In this post. You mention logstor. steel pipe unions.. That is why I asked how you planned on getting it to the house.. I am done here

 

[howellhandmade]

bah, it wouldn't explode. last weekend i experimented and threw in a gallon of oil and it just smoldered and burned. Threw in a qt jug that had a bit of gasoline in it, closed the door, nothing happened...
hours later opened the door, jug is burned up, wood is ashes,,,,no explosion...

Of course, if you throw oil in your OWB it will just burn up. If it gets heated to 375F and sprays around some that might be different. Just like gas, it needs the right amount of air to go whooomph. Smoke point of olive oil is around 420F, varies some with quality, lowers with oxidation. Exposure to light, air, and heat oxidizes olive oil, I don't think it's a good heating fluid. A rather expensive experiment, I'd say, but go right ahead.

Jack

 

[Penguins87]

I bought an OWB so I have no need to buy OIL

 

[Circle B MN]

OK, I'll jump back in again....What is the need for such the high temp..? Does your OWB not heat well enough as designed...?

 

[oneoldbanjo]

Water is much better at storing and exchanging heat than oil is and will result in a much more efficient furnace. Water quickly absorbs heat and will also quickly release the heat - water absorbs and releases heat about 3-6 times faster than oil (the difference depends on the type of oil used). That explains why water and water/glycol solutions are used in radiators and heating systems instead of oil. Oil coolers do exist in some engine applications to help reduce the temperature of the oil - but not to cool the engine as it is much more efficiently done with water. There are also some applications were specialty oils will be used when the temperature of the coolant exceeds the temperatures where water can be used safely.

I have dusted off my heat transfer book I had in college, and the (k) value for heat transfer for water is 0.6, for oils it is 0.1 - 0.21, for stainless steel it is 12.1 to 45, for aluminum it is 120-180, and for copper it is 401. The higher the (k) number the faster the material will absorb and transfer heat, and I listed the above numbers just as an example of the different rates to show why stainless, aluminum and copper are used for cooking.

The bottom line is: Water is very good at absorbing heat in the OWB and then giving it up to the heat exchanger - oil will not absorb or give up the heat nearly as quickly and will not operate as efficiently. The result is that far less of the heat from the fire will be absorbed by the oil and far more heat will just go up the chimney as waste heat.

 

[trialanderror]

as i said, just an idea.


probably use a hydraulic pump, only thing i can think of to move anything of that temp....only limit is seals. maybe a vickers vane that moves slow....

i mentioned logstor because someone mentioned if using pex hose clamps must be used. I said my current 'water' OWB installtion uses zero hose clamps. Logstor has some brass double o-ring fittings that have a compression nut and a brass ring to bite down on the pex, with 1" male pipe threads.

As far as extreme oil temps, steel pipe must be used, unless there's something else out there.

This is all test theory, i haven't acutally done any fabbing yet. If i do, i' won't make a post of the results, as it seems everyone is shooting it down