Does This Sound Right?

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Dang, I would say send it back to me and I will adjust it but it may be your area. It accelerated fine at Tom's in Va. and did great here at da house. I didn't get a full tank through it though, might be it breaking in.

I got 8 tanks on my 211 now, had to pull the L limiter cap and make a tiny adjustment. I need to pull the H now, it's breaking in good and needs to be slowed down alittle.

yea get me right, i have nothing but good to say about you, the saw just needed minor adjustments because it was laggy when it came to accelerating from idle which is most likely caused by our diffrent areas. also i would tune my own but i gotta get a tach and read up a lot, mainly on how to adjust the low because idle is easy, make it so the chain dont spin, and then high you just gotta put it to the owners manual spec. right?
 
I wouldn't be surprised, especially if the tech thinks that the limiters need to stay on, the saw needs to be set to OEM specs, etc. It is tough to hit the "sweet spot" on saws when in reality the caps should be pulled, muffler opened up, and the thing tuned properly.

Further, it is entirely possible that the saw simply bills all work in 1/3 hour increments, or something like that. I can't begrudge a shop for choosing to do this, though it would be nice to have it known beforehand.

In any case, I think that this whole situation illustrates the following:

1. Learn to tune your own saws.
2. This shop does not want your business.
3. If you're Harry Homeowner, that's one thing. But you are out buying $700+ saws and still can't tune your own? Learn to tune your own saws.
4. You don't want to do business with this shop in the future.

I agree that this may not be "fair" or that your expectations were not understood, met, or respected. But you know what, you're only out $20-the actual value of having your saw set up right, and got a valuable lesson out of the deal. It is frustrating, but the honest truth is that many OPE dealers (possibly the majority) are idiotic and marginally competent, whether as salespeople, as techs, or as businesspeople. I don't know why this is, somehow these folks are able to stay in business. Don't help them. No more splitting business with these folks. Take your business elsewhere, make sure friends/family are aware of your dissatisfaction, and vote with your feet and your dollars.

A couple years back, I sent an old snowblower in to get fixed. The shop called and said that they could do the work (quite a list, much of it ignition-related with NLA parts) but it would cost quite a bit. I asked what the cost of a repower would be, because I had a grip into a sandblast/repaint already. They said that they couldn't repower it because the machine had an oddball crank size. I didn't believe that, but deferred to their judgment - I wanted the thing finished and back, and they have a good reputation around town. So I paid a few hundred bucks and I had them do the work. When I got the machine back, I read the invoice - the engine had marginal compression and was on its way out, one of the valve guides was almost worn away, and the taper on the cylinder walls was incredible; the folks had not told me any of this over the phone. And best of all, I looked at the crank - normal size, but because the pulley was a closed-end pulley (1/8" lip, to set the depth on the crank) it made the 3/4" crank look like a 1/2" crank when viewed from the end. Idiots. Suffice it to say, I drive 20 minutes to the good OPE shop for my lawnmower parts, instead of 5 minutes to this one, and gladly let ANYONE who will listen know why I make this choice.

No 1` Learn how to tune the carb yourself, they need to be tuned for different temp, gas, too lean too start with etc. Steve
 
okay, I havent read any replies, just the 1st and I think 3rd posts...

You had a saw you bought on the west coast, and brought well inland, and needed it re-tuned. You took it to a local dealer and wanted to know what it would cost to re-tune it, left a note, etc...

They took a look at it, and the only way to confirm it needed a tune, was to actually tune it...which most likely involved removing the carb and removign the caps, making a wide adjustment and putting the caps back on, putting the carb back on, and putting it together. The tech then had to tach the saw out, and tune it in again...then make out an invoice, and clean the oil sling off and chips from his work bench...Id say 25 minutes labor is VERY resonable for this, and 20 dollars isnt a bad price either.

You didnt buy the saw from them...and just looking it over to see if it needed a tune would have triggered an automatic Check out FEE even iff you didnt want to pay them to have it tuned...10-15 dollars is common.

You leave the tech in a bad position with the "call first" deal. If he looks at it, and it needs a tune, he has time invested in it, and automatic mess cleanup. If he confirms a tune in will fix it, and you dont want to pay that much he wil leither have to give his time for free so you can take it elsewhere (which you were actually planning to do) or charge a check out fee, and piss you off. OR take a few minutes, fix it, charge the labor rate, and hope for the best..usually the latter is the way to go...

Unfortunately you were...

A: unwilling to learn how to do it yourself
B: Incapable of doing it yourself
C: Unwilling to pay to have a qualified, trained technician do it for you

So from a Technicians point of view, it makes you an undesirable customer...Customers like yourself cost shops hundreds and hundreds of dollars a year in lost revenue...

The owner was just as pissed off as I am right now....If you cant do it yourself, or wont do it yourself, and dont want to pay to have someone to do it..Get the **** out and dont come back.
 
woah there he's 16 maybe he hasn't quite learned yet go easy on him.

and yes i think we can all agree they should have called him first.
 
woah there he's 16 maybe he hasn't quite learned yet go easy on him.

and yes i think we can all agree they should have called him first.

They call him first he is going to pick it up and take it elsewhere with the technician already having his time devoted to it.

I mean, I drive a FullSize Jeep that gets 10mpg doing downhill in neutral, and a Dodge that may get 12mpg on a good day...I know about fuel costs and all that crap..but If Im dropping 700+ dollars on new saws, and putting 50 dollars in gas in my vehicle every week...I sure as sh** aint going to bitc* and moan over paying 20 dollars to have a specialist do what I couldnt.

If I took a vehicle to a tire shop that had a bad bad vibration in a tire/wheel and asked them to figure it out, but their tire machine was down for a couple days..and asked them to call me when they knew what was wrong...and they called 3 days later and said they unmounted itm rotated it 180 on the wheel and re-balanced it, and the vibration went away...the bill was 20 dollars...Id pay it..gladly, and never say a word.

I know that they are going to have to lift the vehicle, pull the tire and put it on the balancer at the very least, to tell me ANYTHING AT ALL. They would have to unmount it and try to re-balance it confirm the diagnosis of a badly out of balance tire/wheel...then go ahead and rebalance ot confirm it can be fixed.

There are times when the only sure way to confirm a fix, it to just fix it....Once you have so many minutes tied up in a simple repair, it's worth it to just go ahead and fix it, rather than fart around for 4 hours waiting to hear back from the customer, when all you can tell them is "Well, we took it off, and it wobbles real bad, do you want me to try and un-mount and rebalance?
 
The owner was just as pissed off as I am right now....If you cant do it yourself, or wont do it yourself, and dont want to pay to have someone to do it..Get the **** out and dont come back.

That's not the issue red. The shop told him they'd call before any work was done. They did not do this. If calling is impractical, as you've alluded to, then they should have never promised to call. People don't complain about the price, they complain about promising one thing and doing another.
 
okay, I havent read any replies, just the 1st and I think 3rd posts...

You had a saw you bought on the west coast, and brought well inland, and needed it re-tuned. You took it to a local dealer and wanted to know what it would cost to re-tune it, left a note, etc...

They took a look at it, and the only way to confirm it needed a tune, was to actually tune it...which most likely involved removing the carb and removign the caps, making a wide adjustment and putting the caps back on, putting the carb back on, and putting it together. The tech then had to tach the saw out, and tune it in again...then make out an invoice, and clean the oil sling off and chips from his work bench...Id say 25 minutes labor is VERY resonable for this, and 20 dollars isnt a bad price either.

You didnt buy the saw from them...and just looking it over to see if it needed a tune would have triggered an automatic Check out FEE even iff you didnt want to pay them to have it tuned...10-15 dollars is common.

You leave the tech in a bad position with the "call first" deal. If he looks at it, and it needs a tune, he has time invested in it, and automatic mess cleanup. If he confirms a tune in will fix it, and you dont want to pay that much he wil leither have to give his time for free so you can take it elsewhere (which you were actually planning to do) or charge a check out fee, and piss you off. OR take a few minutes, fix it, charge the labor rate, and hope for the best..usually the latter is the way to go...

Unfortunately you were...

A: unwilling to learn how to do it yourself
B: Incapable of doing it yourself
C: Unwilling to pay to have a qualified, trained technician do it for you

So from a Technicians point of view, it makes you an undesirable customer...Customers like yourself cost shops hundreds and hundreds of dollars a year in lost revenue...

The owner was just as pissed off as I am right now....If you cant do it yourself, or wont do it yourself, and dont want to pay to have someone to do it..Get the **** out and dont come back.

all the tech had to do is call me, if that was too much work and i am an undisirable customer, then dont touch my ####ing saw, and dont do the work without calling me and then flat out tell me its my fault and try to charge me even though he failed to hold up his end of the deal. if they even would have called me telling me it was done a week and a half ago like any shop should do i would of had the money even though i wouldent of been happy that they didnt call me before hand, but now spring break is over so i am not working everyday and i bought a new saw so money is tight.
 
Last edited:
They call him first he is going to pick it up and take it elsewhere with the technician already having his time devoted to it.

I mean, I drive a FullSize Jeep that gets 10mpg doing downhill in neutral, and a Dodge that may get 12mpg on a good day...I know about fuel costs and all that crap..but If Im dropping 700+ dollars on new saws, and putting 50 dollars in gas in my vehicle every week...I sure as sh** aint going to bitc* and moan over paying 20 dollars to have a specialist do what I couldnt.

If I took a vehicle to a tire shop that had a bad bad vibration in a tire/wheel and asked them to figure it out, but their tire machine was down for a couple days..and asked them to call me when they knew what was wrong...and they called 3 days later and said they unmounted itm rotated it 180 on the wheel and re-balanced it, and the vibration went away...the bill was 20 dollars...Id pay it..gladly, and never say a word.

I know that they are going to have to lift the vehicle, pull the tire and put it on the balancer at the very least, to tell me ANYTHING AT ALL. They would have to unmount it and try to re-balance it confirm the diagnosis of a badly out of balance tire/wheel...then go ahead and rebalance ot confirm it can be fixed.

There are times when the only sure way to confirm a fix, it to just fix it....Once you have so many minutes tied up in a simple repair, it's worth it to just go ahead and fix it, rather than fart around for 4 hours waiting to hear back from the customer, when all you can tell them is "Well, we took it off, and it wobbles real bad, do you want me to try and un-mount and rebalance?

in my last post to you i got pissed at ya, but i think now you dont understand that if he had called before doing any work, that he would of had no time invested other than a phone call (maybe 5 minutes) and that the work order stated that all that needed to be done is a carb tune, the saw ran fine, just needed a minor tune because it was laggy when accelorating, he didnt have to find if anything was wrong, because nothing was wrong really, just needed a quick tune.
 
They call him first he is going to pick it up and take it elsewhere with the technician already having his time devoted to it.

I mean, I drive a FullSize Jeep that gets 10mpg doing downhill in neutral, and a Dodge that may get 12mpg on a good day...I know about fuel costs and all that crap..but If Im dropping 700+ dollars on new saws, and putting 50 dollars in gas in my vehicle every week...I sure as sh** aint going to bitc* and moan over paying 20 dollars to have a specialist do what I couldnt.

If I took a vehicle to a tire shop that had a bad bad vibration in a tire/wheel and asked them to figure it out, but their tire machine was down for a couple days..and asked them to call me when they knew what was wrong...and they called 3 days later and said they unmounted itm rotated it 180 on the wheel and re-balanced it, and the vibration went away...the bill was 20 dollars...Id pay it..gladly, and never say a word.

I know that they are going to have to lift the vehicle, pull the tire and put it on the balancer at the very least, to tell me ANYTHING AT ALL. They would have to unmount it and try to re-balance it confirm the diagnosis of a badly out of balance tire/wheel...then go ahead and rebalance ot confirm it can be fixed.

There are times when the only sure way to confirm a fix, it to just fix it....Once you have so many minutes tied up in a simple repair, it's worth it to just go ahead and fix it, rather than fart around for 4 hours waiting to hear back from the customer, when all you can tell them is "Well, we took it off, and it wobbles real bad, do you want me to try and un-mount and rebalance?


Red, you certainly give me a chuckle.

I happen to run a couple of service calls this week.

Monday a customer asks me to take a look at some plumbing problems. Turns out it was a horrible install, by another plumber. Fixed her up as best I could and barely charged her 1/2 my regular rate.

Today, went to a call that turned out to be an electrical issue. Phoned the electrician to get help diagnosing and even helped schedule the call for the sparky. Customer asked me how much? $5.00 to cover fuel.

The above two folks are good customers and I am/was able to do that for them. Would they have gladly paid my regular rate? Sure, but I didn't see the need.

This kid had an understanding with the establishment. They didn't uphold their part of the bargain. Simple as that.

I do know what you are saying, still, it sounds like an understanding was reached BEFORE the saw was left.
 
yea get me right, i have nothing but good to say about you, the saw just needed minor adjustments because it was laggy when it came to accelerating from idle which is most likely caused by our diffrent areas. also i would tune my own but i gotta get a tach and read up a lot, mainly on how to adjust the low because idle is easy, make it so the chain dont spin, and then high you just gotta put it to the owners manual spec. right?

Yup, read up alot and get ya a tach. You got the last part right also. The "LA" may need some tweaking in some cases for correct idle and acceleration. Once you get a feel for what the saw needs and how it responds to those adjustments, it will be like clock work.
 
Red, Red, Red :buttkick:

First off shop is BSing... most shops (including yours) have a rate for such things. For most it's a flat fee 10.00, 15.00 whatever, for some it's a "shop minimum" rate and that’s what you tell the guy when he comes in. Don’t give him some cock and bull story about not knowing how much you charge for what is probably the most frequent repair the shop makes.

Customer: "How much to tune a carb"

Shop: "10 bucks to clean filter and adjust carb" --OR-- "shop minimum is a half hour labor gonna be $27.50"

If he agrees then you do the work if not send him on his way.... everybody’s happy.

If it turns out that adjusting the carb wont get it done then a phone call is in order to explain to the customer what needs to be done and what it's gonna cost him..... simple as that.
 
Red, Red, Red :buttkick:

First off shop is BSing... most shops (including yours) have a rate for such things. For most it's a flat fee 10.00, 15.00 whatever, for some it's a "shop minimum" rate and that’s what you tell the guy when he comes in. Don’t give him some cock and bull story about not knowing how much you charge for what is probably the most frequent repair the shop makes.

Customer: "How much to tune a carb"

Shop: "10 bucks to clean filter and adjust carb" --OR-- "shop minimum is a half hour labor gonna be $27.50"

If he agrees then you do the work if not send him on his way.... everybody’s happy.

If it turns out that adjusting the carb wont get it done then a phone call is in order to explain to the customer what needs to be done and what it's gonna cost him..... simple as that.

this is deffinently the way they should do it, they charge 1.00 a minute/60.00 an hour and so they said they would charge me what ever time it took by that, so thats what worried me. the tech could turn this into some fiasco and take 45 min to look at things when all i wanted done is the quick carb adjust, the filter didnt even need to be cleaned because i got it from 2000 and ran it 10 minutes, saw it wasent quite right so i used the 180 to finish because if the low was off, the high might be too (im really catious about my saws, hell i have no excuse when i have 4 others to use) so it was litterally brand new.
 
also on most newer saws (like mine listed) will i have to pull off the limiter caps to adjust the carb, these would most likely be minor adjustments. and how do you take them off cause the dealer was saying a lot had to come off in order to take them off,
 
Red, Red, Red :buttkick:

First off shop is BSing... most shops (including yours) have a rate for such things. For most it's a flat fee 10.00, 15.00 whatever, for some it's a "shop minimum" rate and that’s what you tell the guy when he comes in. Don’t give him some cock and bull story about not knowing how much you charge for what is probably the most frequent repair the shop makes.

Customer: "How much to tune a carb"

Shop: "10 bucks to clean filter and adjust carb" --OR-- "shop minimum is a half hour labor gonna be $27.50"

If he agrees then you do the work if not send him on his way.... everybody’s happy.

If it turns out that adjusting the carb wont get it done then a phone call is in order to explain to the customer what needs to be done and what it's gonna cost him..... simple as that.

We dont do the set rate thing, havent for a long time. So many different carbs are in play, and installed in some of the oddest ways, tag on the fact most now have some type of limiter and many require the carb to be removed to safely extract the limiters and not destroy them.

Then there are OPE's that are difficult to adjust by design, like the Zama Rotary valve carb on most ECHO peices now, you have to remove the carb in some cases to extract a low end limiter cap, and on the high end limiter you have to use a special threaded tool to extract a soft metal limiter cap recessed in the adjustment hole, it takes some time to do it right because you only get one shot to remove it, if it strips, you have a fixed jet carb now...

I know on many Stihl saws the access holes to the limiters is very small, and I dont always feel comfortable not being able to see the progression of the limiter as it is being extracted by the drywall screw...so I remove the carb.

Then you have your carbs a few years old...no limiters...2 scres on the top of the carb, adjust with a flat blade screwdriver, takes a couple minutes at best.

If I charge 20 dollars flat rate, Ive got angry people that had the old style carbs...if I charge 10 dollar flat rate, Im losing on the newer style carbs.

I dont give a quote on anything until Ive looked at it first, every time I do give a quote without giving anything a once over, it gets broken off DEEP in my anus.

Also, the tech has no way of knowing that a simple adjustment is all your saw needed to make it right...you say "it ran perfect except it stumbled on acceleration". Well most likely it needed to be richened up on the bottom end, may only have one screw (L) and an (LA) for base idle. Regardless it was AT the richest possible setting against the limiter cap...so he had to pull it to confirm that that is all it needed.

Ive had equipment that I could have sworn all it needed was a quick tune, and quoted 10-15 dollars to do the regular tune, clean filter, check gas, etc.. Only to find that the saw needed a carb kit and wouldnt tune in..be it a stumble on acceleration, or a loss of fuel up top, or a lack of idle..whatever it may be.

But the customer sh*ts bricks when the 10 dollar repair becomes a 50 dollar repair...

The most frequent repair in our shop is a carb rebuild, and that IS a flatrate charge.

35+ parts for 2 stroke

55+ parts for Single cyl Riders

65+ parts for V-twin riders

35+ parts for push mowers.

55 + parts for Generators

65+ parts for 5hp L-head briggs (on account I hate the fkkcers and their rusted tanks too)

A typical carb adjustment RARELY fixes a poor running problem, it may make it managable, but it rarely fixes it and makes it run like it is supposed to. We are at sea-level here pretty much...no real hills or any real impressive elevations anywhere near here.

As far as the Shop owner saying he'll call you before he fixes it...the Tech most likely came in, looked it over, found the limiter was maxxed out. He could have called you right there and said "Well I'll have to remove the limiter, and carb, to tune it...gonna be 20 dollars". The OP would have balked at that..and taken it to the free shop...and balked at any type of service fee..regardless of what he says.

The tech did what probably most techs this day and age would have done. He couldnt give an accurate read on if the carb adjustment would have fixed it or not...he removed the limiter and fixed it, and made a bill out. Most customers would have paid the bill and used their now perfectly running saw...but this one was fishing for a freebie.

I get freebie fishers every day, they come in all shapes, sizes, creeds, etc...they bring in something and want you to see what is wrong with it, but they want an estimate before they do any work to it. You bust your ass and find out the machine needs this, this and this...they get their estimate, dont want it fixed...pay a 15 dollar service fee, pick it up, but the parts off line and do it themselves, or take it, and the parts to another shop for installation (no diagnostic time).

My guess is the shop in question has a sign posted "service fee 20.00" or sometihng like that...
 
also on most newer saws (like mine listed) will i have to pull off the limiter caps to adjust the carb, these would most likely be minor adjustments. and how do you take them off cause the dealer was saying a lot had to come off in order to take them off,

Just take it to the guy that weas going to do it for free. You start taking stuff off and removing limiters you'll roast your saw.

And yeah, you got to pull the carb off to remove them. I dont know about your specific model, but some limiters only allow 1/16 turn of movement, while some allow up to 3/4 turn of movement. Some allow no movement at all...

Oh, and you'll need a digital tach that reads up to 15,000 rpms with an inductive pickup, and a 1spark/1rev setting.
 
also on most newer saws (like mine listed) will i have to pull off the limiter caps to adjust the carb, these would most likely be minor adjustments. and how do you take them off cause the dealer was saying a lot had to come off in order to take them off,

Use a tiny screw, thread it into the cap's center opening, line up the cap's tab to the slot in the carb body and pull it out. Try not to damage it in the process, when it's out, cut off the big tab and reinstall. Now you can adjust the carb without pulling the caps again and your carb screws stay in place.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top