Dumb question re: chain brake technique

[Gooserider]

I've done a search, and haven't found anything useful...

While I appreciate the safety added by the chain brake, (though I do my best to never need it!) I don't use it in normal operation as much as the "safety guru's" advise...

I would say there are three main reasons -

1. My Dolmar manual (which I did actually READ ):jawdrop: seems to imply that one shouldn't run the saw much with the brake on - I think this mostly applies to starting at part throttle, as I don't see what harm it can do at idle, but...

2. A carryover from the shooting world, where Cooper's Third Law of firearm safety advises placing limited faith in mechanical devices, says I really shouldn't rely on the brake...

3. And really my biggest concern, is that I feel clumsy and awkward taking the brake OFF, and less in control of the saw... All my instinct and pre-brake days training says you should be hanging on to the two handles for dear life, and not letting go

While putting the brake on is easy, just rock forward with the left hand, I haven't found a way to DISENGAGE it that doesn't feel like it involves a bunch of fumbling around. (It doesn't seem saw specific, I find it the case on every saw I've used)

Part of the problem is that to disengage the brake you have to pull the lever back almost to the top bar before it "catches" and goes back to it's working position. - I don't really have clearance to hold the saw with my left hand on the top grip and pull the lever back with my right w/o hitting my knuckles.

The other option seems to be trying to "bounce" the saw up while letting go with the left hand to pull the lever back and then making another bounce and grab to get back on the bar... This feels unsafe as only my right hand is controlling the saw, from an unbalanced position.

So what I'm really asking is: What is the best technique for disengaging the brake while still controlling the saw?

Am I doing something wrong, or is this sort of the "nature of the beast"?

Gooserider

 

[Erick]

Try holding the side of the front handle in your left hand and using your belly/legs/waist (whatever your most comfortable with) to hold the rear handle and use your right hand to pull the brake flag back.

I use the between the thighs starting technique and if you are doing it right it is pretty natural to leave the saw clamped between the legs and use your right hand to pull the brake flag. The saw is maintained under control at all times and it is a smooth natural motion.

Give it a try.

 

[Nailsbeats]

I set the tip of the bar down and hammer it with the left hand, or if the bar is small I just pull the saw against my body and hammer the brake quick with the left and back to business.

 

[SawTroll]

I use the left hand - same as pulled the rope - if I applied the brake to start with......

 

[Tzed250]

I have medium sized hands....I slide my left hand to the bend in the handlebar, then reach forward with my fingers and pull the brake bake while leaving my thumb locked around the bar. I have used this technique so long I don't even think about it. Setting the brake is done with either the left wrist or the palm of my right hand. If I take a hand off of the saw the brake gets set.

 

[computeruser]

I treat it like a handguard, nothing more. It doesn't get set ON unless inertia, kickback, or a stray sapling in the underbrush trips it.

 

[046]

doesn't really matter... so long as you remain in control... sit it down... flip your wrist... etc.

the most important part is that you USE it!

anytime I have to walk more than a few feet... brake goes on... before I start motor... brake goes on. if you slip and fall... and/or trigger gets caught on brush... etc..

this is coming from someone that used to almost never use the brake.
now days I treat it like another piece of safety gear.

just like I would not cut without chaps... I will not operate saw without using the brake.

 

[Slamm]

I don't even know what you guys are talking about???? LOL.

If my chainbrake is activated, a branch hit it by accident or I bumped it while setting it on the ATV or taking it off of the skidder. I don't purposely activate it, unless maybe I'm moving around in a tree or something. I certainly don't use it to the point that I have a routine down for it. If my saw is running, I am cutting. If I am not cutting for awhile then I turn it off.

Are you guys walking around the woods or going on hikes with the saws running and the idle set too high or something? I guess, I'm not use to using the chainbrake like a light switch with all the on and off procedures.

I thought I read once on here where one guy literally sets his brake between every cut or something to that effect, I have said before that it is more or less a loosing battle to argue against or for the decrease of certain safety equipment and procedures, but at some point in time you have to questions the "safety" of the person operating the equipment, and if you don't think you can make it from one cut to the next without cutting your head off then I question, your comprehesion and ability to safetly operate the saw in the first place, however illogical or unsafe that makes me sound, LOL.

Very interesting,

Sam

 

[Tzed250]

I don't even know what you guys are talking about???? LOL.

If my chainbrake is activated, a branch hit it by accident or I bumped it while setting it on the ATV or taking it off of the skidder. I don't purposely activate it, unless maybe I'm moving around in a tree or something. I certainly don't use it to the point that I have a routine down for it. If my saw is running, I am cutting. If I am not cutting for awhile then I turn it off.

Are you guys walking around the woods or going on hikes with the saws running and the idle set too high or something? I guess, I'm not use to using the chainbrake like a light switch with all the on and off procedures.

I thought I read once on here where one guy literally sets his brake between every cut or something to that effect, I have said before that it is more or less a loosing battle to argue against or for the decrease of certain safety equipment and procedures, but at some point in time you have to questions the "safety" of the person operating the equipment, and if you don't think you can make it from one cut to the next without cutting your head off then I question, your comprehesion and ability to safetly operate the saw in the first place, however illogical or unsafe that makes me sound, LOL.

Very interesting,

Sam

LOL...watch some video of the WLC, use of the brake slows those guys down not one bit...doesn't slow me down either. TEHO

 

[Slamm]

I am prepare to admit defeat on this subject from the getgo, as you can't ever "beat" someone who is arguing for more safety. I just think it is funny .... amusing ....... maybe "interesting" would be better word to describe the, in my opinion over use of the chainbrake, I don't have any other way of explaining it.

I don't object to the use of your brain, helmets, ear protection, gloves and chaps, but putting the chainbrake on between cuts just seems funny or odd to me. I have no better explaination than than for it. You are free to carry on and I would never make fun of anyone to their face for it, but inside I would be laughing a little, LOL.

Oh well,

Sam

 

[046]

your attitude mirrored mine not too long ago... I thought folks who flipped their brake on all the time was nuts... until I tripped and fell with my saw running.

no I don't flip the brakes on every other cut.... just when I need to move around and there's a danger of tripping and/or working in a brushy area.

starting a saw up with brakes on is always a good idea. especially up in a tree :monkey:

I don't even know what you guys are talking about???? LOL.

If my chainbrake is activated, a branch hit it by accident or I bumped it while setting it on the ATV or taking it off of the skidder. I don't purposely activate it, unless maybe I'm moving around in a tree or something. I certainly don't use it to the point that I have a routine down for it. If my saw is running, I am cutting. If I am not cutting for awhile then I turn it off.

Are you guys walking around the woods or going on hikes with the saws running and the idle set too high or something? I guess, I'm not use to using the chainbrake like a light switch with all the on and off procedures.

I thought I read once on here where one guy literally sets his brake between every cut or something to that effect, I have said before that it is more or less a loosing battle to argue against or for the decrease of certain safety equipment and procedures, but at some point in time you have to questions the "safety" of the person operating the equipment, and if you don't think you can make it from one cut to the next without cutting your head off then I question, your comprehesion and ability to safetly operate the saw in the first place, however illogical or unsafe that makes me sound, LOL.

Very interesting,

Sam

 

[Slamm]

your attitude mirrored mine not too long ago... I thought folks who flipped their brake on all the time was nuts... until I tripped and fell with my saw running.

no I don't flip the brakes on every other cut.... just when I need to move around and there's a danger of tripping and/or working in a brushy area.

starting a saw up with brakes on is always a good idea. especially up in a tree :monkey:

I agree, and I have set mine a time or two on steep creek banks or obvious weird situations, but the people who literally set it between two cuts of firewood, or walking around on flat ground, just seems a bit much.

I invision these people starting their saws up and just wandering around the woods looking for something to trip on or something. I mean when my saw is running it is in wood, when it is not in wood its probably off. Quite possibly I am more safe than they are, LOL.

But of course you can't logically argue against increased safety, but then you look like a raging lunatic so oh well, LOL.

Sam

 

[Gooserider]

Wow, seems like I started something...

I thank everyone for the suggestions on techniques - will definitely do some experimenting to see what works, though it may seem strange hauling the saw into the office so I can practice while waving it at the computer...

If it works for me, I particularly like Tzed250's suggestion of using the fingers of the left hand as that sounds like something that keeps the saw under good control...

In terms of the wandering around question, I definitely can see using the brake being a smart action - I help a friend w/ his firewood business, and we get a fair amount of wood down at a nearby municipal "tree dump" (w/ permission!) The trees that the town takes down or trims are brought to the dump in the back of dump trucks, and get dumped into random piles of logs of different sizes, all jumbled together in random directions.

The way we have to deal with these piles is essentially to work around them cutting whatever wood we can reach, including climbing on or over logs as needed. This means moving around a good bit, on footing that often isn't completely certain, so tripping is a definite hazard, but it isn't really practical to keep stopping and starting the saw... I figure this is the sort of environment where using the brake regularly could offer a lot of improved safety, IF I could figure a way to use it that left me feeling comfortable about putting it on and especially taking it off... (BTW, I won't cut w/o my chaps, Matterhorn chainsaw boots, logging hat, and gloves so I'm wearing the gear...)

While I'm not a pro, I try to operate as safely as I can, and think I don't do a bad job as is, but I'm ALWAYS interested in learning how to work safer...

Gooserider

 

[yo2001]

I'm usually working on a pretty steep hill with whole bunch of logs and rocks on the ground so I do use it just about every time I move to next location. I have come close to cutting myself moving around and tripping or falling back. I also try to keep my right hand away from the trigger if I'm not in the process cutting.

Once, I have left the motorcycle in 1st gear with clutch in talking to a friend. Next thing you know, I flew to a corner of the parking lot and to a curb. haha. SH*t happens. Just glad it wasn't a safety off on a gun.

Off topic but how do you guys use left hand to crank the saw and reset the chain break? I have to cross my arms to crank the saw with right hand on the pull rope and left hand on the handle. Same with the chain break. I'll set the nose of the bar on a log or hold the saw sideway against my belly and set it with the right hand while I'm holding the bar with left hand. I do get tennis elbow from using chainsaw since that's about the only time left arm gets the workout. (I should call it chainsaw elbow I guess)

 

[dancan]

I'm no "PRO" but do go through alot of mixed gas and have drug and chipped a fair amount of wood , more than three steps I set the brake (sometimes less) , 98 % of the time I start with the brake on and set the brake when I shut off .Pulling the brake off is second nature so I had to go cut today just to see how I pulled reset the brake , on the 361's the left hand thumb stays around the handle and my fingers pull the brake leaver back .

 

[juststumps]

I've done a search, and haven't found anything useful...

While I appreciate the safety added by the chain brake, (though I do my best to never need it!) I don't use it in normal operation as much as the "safety guru's" advise...

I would say there are three main reasons -

1. My Dolmar manual (which I did actually READ ):jawdrop: seems to imply that one shouldn't run the saw much with the brake on - I think this mostly applies to starting at part throttle, as I don't see what harm it can do at idle, but...

2. A carryover from the shooting world, where Cooper's Third Law of firearm safety advises placing limited faith in mechanical devices, says I really shouldn't rely on the brake...

3. And really my biggest concern, is that I feel clumsy and awkward taking the brake OFF, and less in control of the saw... All my instinct and pre-brake days training says you should be hanging on to the two handles for dear life, and not letting go

While putting the brake on is easy, just rock forward with the left hand, I haven't found a way to DISENGAGE it that doesn't feel like it involves a bunch of fumbling around. (It doesn't seem saw specific, I find it the case on every saw I've used)

Part of the problem is that to disengage the brake you have to pull the lever back almost to the top bar before it "catches" and goes back to it's working position. - I don't really have clearance to hold the saw with my left hand on the top grip and pull the lever back with my right w/o hitting my knuckles.

The other option seems to be trying to "bounce" the saw up while letting go with the left hand to pull the lever back and then making another bounce and grab to get back on the bar... This feels unsafe as only my right hand is controlling the saw, from an unbalanced position.

So what I'm really asking is: What is the best technique for disengaging the brake while still controlling the saw?

Am I doing something wrong, or is this sort of the "nature of the beast"?

Gooserider

I thank everyone for the suggestions on techniques - will definitely do some experimenting to see what works, though it may seem strange hauling the saw into the office so I can practice while waving it at the computer...

If it works for me, I particularly like Tzed250's suggestion of using the fingers of the left hand as that sounds like something that keeps the saw under good control...

In terms of the wandering around question, I definitely can see using the brake being a smart action - I help a friend w/ his firewood business, and we get a fair amount of wood down at a nearby municipal "tree dump" (w/ permission!) The trees that the town takes down or trims are brought to the dump in the back of dump trucks, and get dumped into random piles of logs of different sizes, all jumbled together in random directions.

The way we have to deal with these piles is essentially to work around them cutting whatever wood we can reach, including climbing on or over logs as needed. This means moving around a good bit, on footing that often isn't completely certain, so tripping is a definite hazard, but it isn't really practical to keep stopping and starting the saw... I figure this is the sort of environment where using the brake regularly could offer a lot of improved safety, IF I could figure a way to use it that left me feeling comfortable about putting it on and especially taking it off... (BTW, I won't cut w/o my chaps, Matterhorn chainsaw boots, logging hat, and gloves so I'm wearing the gear...)

While I'm not a pro, I try to operate as safely as I can, and think I don't do a bad job as is, but I'm ALWAYS interested in learning how to work safer...

Gooserider

i use my saws 40-50 hrs. a week... maybe instead of waving the thing in front of a computer screen ,using them might help !!!!

if you're cutting logs that are horizontal,, hold the rear handle with your right hand,,, rest the saw on the log,,, take the brake off with your left hand ,,, grab top grip with your left hand ,, lift the saw,, pull trigger,, cut !!!!

if you're cutting logs that a vertical,, hold the saw with your left hand on the side of the top handle,, with the saw against tree.... release the rear handle with your right hand,,,release brake ,,, regrip rear handle,, pull saw away from wood,, pull trigger,, cut !!!

kind of simple, if you don't think about it to much ,,and do more of it !!!

 

[juststumps]

I'm usually working on a pretty steep hill with whole bunch of logs and rocks on the ground so I do use it just about every time I move to next location. I have come close to cutting myself moving around and tripping or falling back. I also try to keep my right hand away from the trigger if I'm not in the process cutting.

Once, I have left the motorcycle in 1st gear with clutch in talking to a friend. Next thing you know, I flew to a corner of the parking lot and to a curb. haha. SH*t happens. Just glad it wasn't a safety off on a gun.

Off topic but how do you guys use left hand to crank the saw and reset the chain break? I have to cross my arms to crank the saw with right hand on the pull rope and left hand on the handle. Same with the chain break. I'll set the nose of the bar on a log or hold the saw sideway against my belly and set it with the right hand while I'm holding the bar with left hand. I do get tennis elbow from using chainsaw since that's about the only time left arm gets the workout. (I should call it chainsaw elbow I guess)

i start a my saws with my left hand,,,, chain brake on....see post above on dealing with the brake....if you can't start it with your left hand, get it going,, and deal with the brake after its running !!

 

[madpogue]

'Course, it also varies with the saw. My wife has very small hands, and mine are pretty medium. On the Huskys we tried, we both found the CB to be a too-long reach. On our two Stihls, I can reach the CB and click it off simply reaching with my left index and ring fingers, keeping my thumb locked around the front handle. I couldn't do that with a Husky. Julie can at least do this with the little Stihl 180. When I'm felling or girdling (typically holding the bar horizontally), I'll just keep my left hand on the "side" of the front handle, and click the CB off with my right hand. That idea of "bouncing" between the front handle and the CB sounds hinky; what if you slip or "miss"? Yeah, occasionally when I'm bucking (bar vertical), I'll put the tip on a stump to grab the CB to click it off, but then you've got your bar tip touching wood with the CB off, even if for just a moment, which probably isn't wise.

Neither our woods nor our field have so much as a square foot that could be called "level ground". And our woods have a LOT of cr@ppy cane/weed growth in the understory. So I kick the CB on every time I walk with the saw.

 

[mer66]

chain brake

gooserider,

you have read your owners manual, and in the back is the maintainance

pages, where it states about usage of the brake, MUST have the brake

checked at the dealer every 3 months at your professional level. using the

brake very often like you and I do.

believe me, that brake band wears consierably, over time. and needs replaced

I assume you are cleaning the drum each time you use your saw, especially

the outside where the brake band contacts the drum.

I was told this by alot of friends, so that is what i do, every time I use the

saw.

for safety of the saw and yourself, do what I did and have it checked by the

dealer.


mike.

 

[Slamm]

Perfect, now I will increase the use of my chainbrakes to every time I start it, take a step, come out of the cut, take hikes in the woods with my saw running and any other time or excuse I can use to set it, it will be set. I'm even going to set the chainbrake when they are turned off. Matter of fact, I'm going to walk out and check them right now.

I will then haul seven saws into the dealer to check the brake band for wear and any other safety risks or factors that I am unaware of every 3 months.

That should satisfy the safety association,

Sam