Dumb question re: chain brake technique

[bump_r]

I'm not reckeless by any stretch, but it seems taking a saw to a dealer every 3 month for a check-up or setting the brake between cuts is overkill. Sorry, I'm with the ole Slammer here. I'd rather use common sense and attentiveness than rely on ANY habitual process. I try not ot let safety devices produce a false sense of security.

But I'm never going to argue against safety, either. If it works for you...

 

[N9WOS]

I may be A typical but, I have grown to dislike chain brakes. It’s one of my sore points.

The saws that I learned with my dad to use, never had one.

Most of the saws I use, don’t have one.

The two saws I do use that have one. I have never had a time when the chain brake operated in a way that would have possibly saved me from damage to life and limb.

The only time I have had them operate is when I am trying to cut my way through brush and one snags the brake and trips it.
But that isn't my reason for disliking them.

The biggest reason I dislike them is it promotes bad sawing habits. (From my point of view)

The majority of the time I have caught someone doing something stupid with a chain saw is when they was using a chain brake. I have caught people trying to remove limbs and other obstructions from a running chainsaw with a chain brake on, more than once.

I may be a sticky wicket on this one, but when ever the chain saw is running, you treat the blade as though the chain is running at full speed, Chain brake on or no chain brake on!!!!!! That way, if you accidentally hit the throttle at any time, then no damage is going to be done. You don’t turn on the chain brake and grab the chain with one hand and the twig with the other and start pulling the twig out.

Want to see me come unglued faster than anything, start messing with the chain of a running chainsaw.

It is kind of like a construction worker using a safety rope to repel from one level of the scaffolding to another level. That safety rope is there as a backup that is only to be used when everything else fails. It isn’t there to be the primary means of support.

That is what gripes me about people talking about safeing the saw with the chain brake while the engine is running. My mind just screams “WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!” The primary means of safeing the saw is by turning off the engine!!!!!! The chain brake is kinda like the safety rope. It’s there as backup when everything else screws up. If you rely on it as a primary means, that means that when it fails, then there is no backup!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are in any situation where you have to violate the zone around the bar, or if you put yourself in a situation where you can‘t protect that zone, then shut off the damn engine!!!!!! No exceptions!!!!!!!!!!!

The longest distance I have traveled with my chainsaw running is to the other side of the tree top. I have never went trekking through the forest with the saw going “put put put” beside me.

I cut in stages. Start the saw, cut the tree down, cut it up, shut off saw, load the tree up, then move to the next tree. I don’t shut the saw off till I finish cutting up the tree, or run out of gas/need to sharpen it. Once I finish with that tree, the saw is shut off till I get ready to cut the next tree.

And when it’s running, keep your eye on what is around the saw blade at all times. When cutting wood, people have an odd tendency to grab for limbs and stuff around you at odd times.

When I need to sit the saw down while it’s running to clear limbs, I put the saw down in a area that is clear of traffic. If there is no safe place to sit it down, and I have to use both hands for something, then I shut it off.

All other people on the site are fully aware that when it’s running on the ground, you don’t mess with it, or walk over it. That is the rules!!!!!!

As for as the primary use of a chain brake as a kick back guard. (IE) Where it kicks back with such speed that the chain brake will activate by inertia. Or if your hand comes off the front handle when it kicks back. The rule I fallow is two hands on the saw when ever you hand is around the throttle. No exceptions!!! And hold on to that handle like your life depends on it. If that saw comes away from you, that handle better still be in your hand, with the little throttle linkages dangling in the air. If you have a solid grip on that saw, then it won’t get you. If it catches with enough force to push it’s way up, then it will push you up with it. If you are not strong enough and skilled enough to restrain it if it tries to kick back, then you shouldn’t be using it.

Ow, and no dang drop starts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Slamm]

N9WOS,

That was excellent, and without fine tuning anything that is pretty much how I operate, and that being the case I have never known or been in the situation where I have had a chainsaw bar with a spinning chain close to my face or upper body region for any reason both on purpose or accidental, which is why I don't quite understand the whole position of purposely applying the chainbrake at other times.

If you are that unsafe or think that you are that unsafe during these times, then I question you ability to safe operate the equipment, but then again you run into that pesky little fact:

You can't ever argue against more safety and not look like a raging lunatic.

Oh well,

Sam

 

[cord arrow]

My wife and I cut eight or so cords this summer off the asphalt at a park being logged out.

Tops were dragged to the lot...

I've never been big on chain brakes...but they were a Godsend here. She really can't yank her saw time and time again...so I had her brake it when she'd set it down. Taught her to "swift kick" the the base of the lever with the heel of her right hand just as the saw leaves the ground with her left, then directly to purchase. Worked like a charm...you may have caught the thread about her cutting eight weekends with nary a rock out. On asphalt.

Have to admit...I've started doing this in the woods...found I can pretty much drop the saw at any time or place or attitude if the chain isn't moving...I kinda' like it.

 

[cord arrow]

She said to mention wearing a thick glove on your left hand...the brake lever will hit your knuckles I guess...never noticed. My hands are like feet...

 

[juststumps]

'Course, it also varies with the saw. My wife has very small hands, and mine are pretty medium. On the Huskys we tried, we both found the CB to be a too-long reach. On our two Stihls, I can reach the CB and click it off simply reaching with my left index and ring fingers, keeping my thumb locked around the front handle. I couldn't do that with a Husky. Julie can at least do this with the little Stihl 180. When I'm felling or girdling (typically holding the bar horizontally), I'll just keep my left hand on the "side" of the front handle, and click the CB off with my right hand. That idea of "bouncing" between the front handle and the CB sounds hinky; what if you slip or "miss"? Yeah, occasionally when I'm bucking (bar vertical), I'll put the tip on a stump to grab the CB to click it off, but then you've got your bar tip touching wood with the CB off, even if for just a moment, which probably isn't wise.

Neither our woods nor our field have so much as a square foot that could be called "level ground". And our woods have a LOT of cr@ppy cane/weed growth in the understory. So I kick the CB on every time I walk with the saw.

"I'll put the tip on a stump to grab the CB to click it off, but then you've got your bar tip touching wood with the CB off, even if for just a moment, which probably isn't wise. "

WHY ??? PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME ??? let me get this straight, you have a saw with the tip on the stump,,saw runing,,,brake off ,,, chain stopped,,, hand off the throttle... and you reach for the brake,,, and the saw is going to leap up and attack you ????

if you can't hold a saw with one of your hands ,, due to a strenght problem,, or a very large saw with a long bar,,,,and operate the brake with the other hand... you have to either , bend over and set the saw down, or put the tip on something to hold the saw up....preferably on something soft like wood, versus a rock !!!

 

[GASoline71]

All the safety nazi's are gonna come out of the woodwork on any thread like this... not suprising.

I myself cannot recall ever purposely setting a chain brake.

Gary

 

[Gooserider]

N9WOS, I agree with a lot of what you say, and if you go way back up to my original post, you will see that I talk about putting limited faith in mechanical safeties...

You are absolutely right that the only truly safe way to stop a chain is to shut the engine off. If I'm doing anything that wouldn't be safe w/o the brake, I'm going to turn the engine off.

That said, I find in my cutting situations, I have a lot of times where I would really like a "happy medium" - it isn't a situation that really rates turning the saw off, but does entail some level of risk - mostly moving around type situations, not of the "hiking through the woods" sort, but more the moving from one cutting location to the next - should be safe but you CAN fall... W/ the compression release my Dolmar starts reliably and easily, but I still don't want to pull it for every third cut, both for effort and the loss of time to do a safe starting drill (which includes it's own risks)

A fair bit of my cutting is on jumbled up log piles, where I cut whatever I can reach, moving around the pile, and sometimes between adjacent piles, until I'm out of gas or have done everything reachable. Then clear away the cut rounds and repeat... Doing this often means stepping around on somewhat uncertain footing. I step carefully, but still the added safety of the brake wouldn't be a BAD thing... (BTW I've never fallen while doing this, so I must be doing something right...)

At the same time, I agree with the "hang on for dear life" policy, which leaves me a bit conflicted about how to do that and work the brake at the same time - which is why I raised the question to begin with...

Gooserider

 

[Jacob J.]

I'm not reckeless by any stretch, but it seems taking a saw to a dealer every 3 month for a check-up or setting the brake between cuts is overkill. Sorry, I'm with the ole Slammer here. I'd rather use common sense and attentiveness than rely on ANY habitual process. I try not ot let safety devices produce a false sense of security.

But I'm never going to argue against safety, either. If it works for you...

I agree. I've been cutting professionally since I was 18...I've never had to engage a chain brake for any reason...It's all about handling and control and running a razor sharp chain all the time.

 

[mile9socounty]

As they teach you in the Marine Corps when you get your rifle. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger. If you have to pull the brake back, take your finger off the throttle. Simple as that. With all the thinning I've done and occasional logging. I can recall about 3 times I've tripped the brake. I also came to realize you don't walk over a buck skin not wearing Corks.

 

[GASoline71]

I also came to realize you don't walk over a buck skin not wearing Corks.

Learned that one the hard way didya?

LMAO... so did I... many moons ago...

Gary

 

[jimbo@stn23]

All the safety nazi's are gonna come out of the woodwork on any thread like this... not suprising.

I myself cannot recall ever purposely setting a chain brake.

Gary

I have no where near the saw time as Gary (and likely never will) but I can't recall a time where I ever set one on purpose either. Perhaps my time is coming, but I do know I've made a habit of sensing danger and paying attention. Been working well so far.

 

[logbutcher]

No S.N. here. Years ago after too many close calls, stitches, trips to the ground or face plops in the snow, I took the CPL training along with the Game of Logging programs. We often cut in thick brush or need to limb stepping around and on debris. They teach pros how to cut efficiently, AND safely.
The brake is there for a purpose: to stop the chain before it touches flesh. The programs teach you to use the brake:
1. Starting ( no drop starts which I did routinely ). Blipping the throttle immediately after it starts.
2. When stepping more than a couple of steps with the saw running. Now, I know that none of you has ever tripped and fell with the saw running. :jawdrop:

Yes, the saw is shut off when hammering wedges, measuring, or other.:censored:

Using the brake becomes a routine and habit. Press it on with the forearm. Pull it off with your fingers with thumb on the handle. It takes less than 1 second. I've never had to have the brake repaired on the old 440, or the newer 260, or the smaller tree saws Husky 142, 009L. Your choice. Pro saw brakes ( Stihl at least ) are rugged and reliable. Using the brake routinely gives you that extra margin and a check on the brake's operating.
No Safety Nazi.....I want to die in bed. Your choice. ( No Gary, I don't want you in my bed. :monkey: )

 

[southsoundtree]

I treat the chainbrake as the "emergency brake". Putting it on while the chain is running will wear the clutch, clutch drum and the brake band, potentially wearing it out when you need it. For homeowners this is an unlikely scenario.

I saw, make sure the throttle interlock, the thing that your palm presses with your pistol grip hand to lock out he throttle trigger, works. When that works your saw is protected (not fool-proof) from sticks/ etc from accidentally pushing the throttle. Provided the carb is adjusted right so that the chain doesn't run at idle, you should be good to go.

If I have to take a few step or walk across the yard or whatever, no big deal. I just keep holding the saw with my left hand, swing it around the left side of my body a bit with the sidehandle resting on my left leg (of my chaps), then when ready, grab the pistolgrip with the properly working throttle interlock/safety and start cutting. But I'm a pro with lots of experience.

Anytime you'd feel safer using the chainbrake, wait for the chain to stop, with both hands on the saw, pop your left hand forward to engage the chainbrake. Move to the new position. Holding the pistolgrip more or less upward, bar tip more or less downward, roll the side of the wrap handle onto your chap -earing left leg. Using your left fingers, thereby getting them out of the way, reach forward to pop the brake off, while still keeping your thumb around the wrap handle. IF you're doing it the way I do, the saw basically stays put on your leg with one hand.

This reinforces always using the left wrist to put on the chainbrake, helping to avoid over-smacking the brake lever with the rear hand, over wearing the mechanism, and for the times when the chain is spinning, the possibility of missing the lever with the back hand and putting the back hand on the spinning chain.

Also, if you're felling a sketchy tree with the bar on the top side, standing on the right side of the tree while facing the falling lane, your left wrist is ready to hit the chainbrake and run from the stump (this is especially where the miss- the- brake- lever- with- the- back- hand- scenario is more likely (though slim chances overall)). Also, from this position you should be able to flick the kill switch with your thumb (at least on Stihls) before you even leave the kerf to high-tail it down your escape path.

Maybe overly cautious, but the more times one is in the situation for injury, the more those little things can help.

 

[046]

this is exactly my attitude after tripping a few times with saw running.

not saying you cannot operate saw safely without using a chainbrake. loads of old timers have been operating without brakes at all.

without question it's safer to use a chainbrake when starting and when you need to move about, when in heavy brush and/or high trip hazards.

frankly what ever works safest is the best! for me using chain brake is the safest method.

this reminds me of similar threads on using chaps. some never use chaps and laugh at folks that do... that doesn't stop me from using chaps.

No S.N. here. Years ago after too many close calls, stitches, trips to the ground or face plops in the snow, I took the CPL training along with the Game of Logging programs. We often cut in thick brush or need to limb stepping around and on debris. They teach pros how to cut efficiently, AND safely.
The brake is there for a purpose: to stop the chain before it touches flesh. The programs teach you to use the brake:
1. Starting ( no drop starts which I did routinely ). Blipping the throttle immediately after it starts.
2. When stepping more than a couple of steps with the saw running. Now, I know that none of you has ever tripped and fell with the saw running. :jawdrop:

Yes, the saw is shut off when hammering wedges, measuring, or other.:censored:

Using the brake becomes a routine and habit. Press it on with the forearm. Pull it off with your fingers with thumb on the handle. It takes less than 1 second. I've never had to have the brake repaired on the old 440, or the newer 260, or the smaller tree saws Husky 142, 009L. Your choice. Pro saw brakes ( Stihl at least ) are rugged and reliable. Using the brake routinely gives you that extra margin and a check on the brake's operating.
No Safety Nazi.....I want to die in bed. Your choice.