escape routine

[hammerlogging]

I was thinking about how I tend to emphasize a "get out of there, then look up" routine where some of you west coasters emphasize visual over distance. (think moderately closed canopy selective felling situation) And I thought about why, because ya'll know whats up and I think I know whats up. We all do the same basics enterring the felling situation, visual checkout, ID the escape route(s), etc., but once the tree is committed, you're done, time to get away, definately 2 different techniques. And I know bolting 15 or so feet (preferably to behind a tree, and preferably the next one you're going to fall), then turning and looking up, has its faults, but there's a reason I do this and maybe ya'll don't:

TREE FORM

We have limbs that can easily stretch over 30 feet from the stem. My supposition is that we need a little more space, cause when we break off one of these limbs and it swings around and detaches as it or the whole tree is is coming back at you and it is sent your way, lets say we're glad we gave it some space.

In a clearcut or opening situation, I think my escape routine mimics the westcoast tendency much more, a few steps back while looking up. Just thinking about our different technique.

 

[056kid]

there are times to beat feat & times to sit on your ace. I usually do not step away until my tree has commited, even then there might be some sawing left to do. Having been smashed into the ground on several occasions, I like to observe what might be coming to get me. i have also made the mistake of sawing a small tree & being trapped right there & getting pummled.. If I deem things safe, then i wont go far, usually to the next tree. When I am in a hurry I will be facing up my next tree as the last one falls. All I know is watch whats going on, I didnt do that once and about lost my hand along with my saw. Usually all you gotta do is jump back 2 yards and watch the show, sometimes you have to really move but I think for the most part it is a waste of energy. Sometimes you run 30 feet only to have a big piece of wood come slamming down a foot away from you. Usually its cause some damn ass grape vines(they make good snacks Il give them that...) .

you learn as you go. . .

 

[fmaglin]

I was thinking about how I tend to emphasize a "get out of there, then look up" routine where some of you west coasters emphasize visual over distance. (think moderately closed canopy selective felling situation) And I thought about why, because ya'll know whats up and I think I know whats up. We all do the same basics enterring the felling situation, visual checkout, ID the escape route(s), etc., but once the tree is committed, you're done, time to get away, definately 2 different techniques. And I know bolting 15 or so feet (preferably to behind a tree, and preferably the next one you're going to fall), then turning and looking up, has its faults, but there's a reason I do this and maybe ya'll don't:

TREE FORM

We have limbs that can easily stretch over 30 feet from the stem. My supposition is that we need a little more space, cause when we break off one of these limbs and it swings around and detaches as it or the whole tree is is coming back at you and it is sent your way, lets say we're glad we gave it some space.

In a clearcut or opening situation, I think my escape routine mimics the westcoast tendency much more, a few steps back while looking up. Just thinking about our different technique.

I hear where you're commin from on this one hammer. Had an Ash tree about 2 weeks ago that had a 20 ft or so dead branch hanging off to the left. I figured I might need to retreat further than usual and sure enough, as the tree committed, that branch broke off, swung back, and fell within 15 feet of the stump.

 

[gwiley]

there are times to beat feat & times to sit on your ace. I usually do not step away until my tree has commited, even then there might be some sawing left to do. Having been smashed into the ground on several occasions, I like to observe what might be coming to get me. i have also made the mistake of sawing a small tree & being trapped right there & getting pummled.. If I deem things safe, then i wont go far, usually to the next tree. When I am in a hurry I will be facing up my next tree as the last one falls. All I know is watch whats going on, I didnt do that once and about lost my hand along with my saw. Usually all you gotta do is jump back 2 yards and watch the show, sometimes you have to really move but I think for the most part it is a waste of energy. Sometimes you run 30 feet only to have a big piece of wood come slamming down a foot away from you. Usually its cause some damn ass grape vines(they make good snacks Il give them that...) .

you learn as you go. . .

Could it be that you have gotten pummled due to your technique? I put space between the committed tree and my body - as much space as I can safely (there is a difference between a dignified scoot and a mad dash).

I have seen so many trees behave in odd ways, especially when the canopy gets tangled or poor wood in a hinge fails prematurely that I simply don't want to be any where near the stump during the big event.

 

[redprospector]

My theory is if you don't look first, how do you know that you're not running into the path of what you want to run from?

Andy

 

[forestryworks]

My theory is if you don't look first, how do you know that you're not running into the path of what you want to run from?

Andy

Good theory

 

[huskyhank]

I was thinking about how I tend to emphasize a "get out of there, then look up" routine where some of you west coasters emphasize visual over distance. (think moderately closed canopy selective felling situation) And I thought about why, because ya'll know whats up and I think I know whats up. We all do the same basics enterring the felling situation, visual checkout, ID the escape route(s), etc., but once the tree is committed, you're done, time to get away, definately 2 different techniques. And I know bolting 15 or so feet (preferably to behind a tree, and preferably the next one you're going to fall), then turning and looking up, has its faults, but there's a reason I do this and maybe ya'll don't:

TREE FORM

We have limbs that can easily stretch over 30 feet from the stem. My supposition is that we need a little more space, cause when we break off one of these limbs and it swings around and detaches as it or the whole tree is is coming back at you and it is sent your way, lets say we're glad we gave it some space.

In a clearcut or opening situation, I think my escape routine mimics the westcoast tendency much more, a few steps back while looking up. Just thinking about our different technique.

I don't know anything but I think you got it.

There is often a larger area of "beaten ground" within 20 feet of the stump of a shorter tree with a broad canopy than with a real tall tree with fewer and smaller branches that are farther away from you. Then add in the other shorter broader trees right near by and there's lots of stuff to go flying.

I think standing 5-6 feet away from the stump and watching would just be asking for it in the situation described above. Getting some distance and taking cover sounds like a great idea to me.

 

[Spotted Owl]

You have something that is working well for you, keep it going. I've never been to your side of the world so I can't/won't say anything about it. Here with the height keep a look up and if you are paying attention and see something coming you will have time to back away if you have a path or two ready to use. Granted we don't have many limbs that will spread 30 foot from the stem, that would indeed change the game especially in a lower canopy. I know when I get into an oak patch I prefer that look up and live while in a controlled retreat. Seem like every time an oak comes down there is always crap in a 8'+ radius around the stump, some of it isn't small either. With our stuff however sometimes it seems as if the safest place is right at and behind the stump and then sometimes not.

Red has a strong theory that I like and follow myself. Two industries I have worked in now that this works in. "LOOK UP AND LIVE"

Every tree and situation is different. About the time you get lax about what can happen is when you are reminded. Hopefully though it won't be your last reminder. That said close calls are a part of this game and will never be totally avoided, but getting your bell rung should not happen if you are paying close attention a we should all be doing every step of the way. Until that stem you are working is on the ground and the crap is done falling with it, it deserves our utmost respect, then and only then do I continue on to the next.

I don't consider myself seasoned yet if ever. However when I was still very green we had a young bull snorter show up and show us how things are done in production. The old timers getting me cut in said give that cull a wide birth so I did. About two weeks into it he started another before the one before was done. Turned his back on the first to start the next, well that first one laid slow("leave a big hinge so you don't have to pay attention once they commit") into another top and rolled, pulled the straps and that chaired. The chair flew up and cracked him in the hip and sent him on his way. He tossed into a vine maple mess that he just angle stobbed and ran a stob thru his thigh when he landed with the same side that the chair dislocated his hip and on landing he compounded his femur along with that stob. That was his last day walking normal again, damn lucky that wasn't his last day period.

You aren't done until the dust settles on what you are working on at the time, then you can take your eyes off of it.If you have a system that works well keep it going. Remember Burvol and his #1. Stay safe and healthy, your no good to anyone if you can't get anything done, or something like that. Do what ever it takes to follow rule number 1. Run and scream like a school girl if you need too. If you have a cutting partner he'll have a good time watching you do it.



Owl

 

[056kid]

Could it be that you have gotten pummled due to your technique? I put space between the committed tree and my body - as much space as I can safely (there is a difference between a dignified scoot and a mad dash).

I have seen so many trees behave in odd ways, especially when the canopy gets tangled or poor wood in a hinge fails prematurely that I simply don't want to be any where near the stump during the big event.

Possibly, but I think everyone that has been in the biz has been whacked at least once or twice. like I was saying about grape vines, thsy can pull stuff out of trees that are 100 feet away, all kinds of crazy stuff happens when they get involved.

 

[coastalfaller]

You have something that is working well for you, keep it going. I've never been to your side of the world so I can't/won't say anything about it. Here with the height keep a look up and if you are paying attention and see something coming you will have time to back away if you have a path or two ready to use. Granted we don't have many limbs that will spread 30 foot from the stem, that would indeed change the game especially in a lower canopy. I know when I get into an oak patch I prefer that look up and live while in a controlled retreat. Seem like every time an oak comes down there is always crap in a 8'+ radius around the stump, some of it isn't small either. With our stuff however sometimes it seems as if the safest place is right at and behind the stump and then sometimes not.

Red has a strong theory that I like and follow myself. Two industries I have worked in now that this works in. "LOOK UP AND LIVE"

Every tree and situation is different. About the time you get lax about what can happen is when you are reminded. Hopefully though it won't be your last reminder. That said close calls are a part of this game and will never be totally avoided, but getting your bell rung should not happen if you are paying close attention a we should all be doing every step of the way. Until that stem you are working is on the ground and the crap is done falling with it, it deserves our utmost respect, then and only then do I continue on to the next.

I don't consider myself seasoned yet if ever. However when I was still very green we had a young bull snorter show up and show us how things are done in production. The old timers getting me cut in said give that cull a wide birth so I did. About two weeks into it he started another before the one before was done. Turned his back on the first to start the next, well that first one laid slow("leave a big hinge so you don't have to pay attention once they commit") into another top and rolled, pulled the straps and that chaired. The chair flew up and cracked him in the hip and sent him on his way. He tossed into a vine maple mess that he just angle stobbed and ran a stob thru his thigh when he landed with the same side that the chair dislocated his hip and on landing he compounded his femur along with that stob. That was his last day walking normal again, damn lucky that wasn't his last day period.

You aren't done until the dust settles on what you are working on at the time, then you can take your eyes off of it.If you have a system that works well keep it going. Remember Burvol and his #1. Stay safe and healthy, your no good to anyone if you can't get anything done, or something like that. Do what ever it takes to follow rule number 1. Run and scream like a school girl if you need too. If you have a cutting partner he'll have a good time watching you do it.



Owl

Well said. Another thing is you absolutely have to, I repeat, have to, keep your mind on the game, the task at hand. Start thinking about other things, a fight with your wife, your bills, anything, and you're asking for it. You also have to go to work in the morning with a clear head. I don't mind a guy tying into one, but plan on staying home the next day. And the key word there is plan. Tell me you won't be there the next day so I can plan for it, make sure your partner has a partner for when you're not there.

 

[2dogs]

To change the question just a little bit how many of you bring your saw all the way to your safe spot or just pull it off the stump? I now tend to leave the saw as soon as it is free from the cut, that is just out of harms way, and the scamper to my hidey hole. I am going to use the 090 on some bigger trees in a few days and I sure can't run and drag that boat anchor at the same time.

 

[coastalfaller]

To change the question just a little bit how many of you bring your saw all the way to your safe spot or just pull it off the stump? I now tend to leave the saw as soon as it is free from the cut, that is just out of harms way, and the scamper to my hidey hole. I am going to use the 090 on some bigger trees in a few days and I sure can't run and drag that boat anchor at the same time.

All depends, if it's iffy I leave it, it's out of the cut and up high & hopefully out of harm's way. If not, I usually pack it back with me or at least part way. If there's ever a choice, it's me over the saw. They make those every day.....only one of me!

 

[bitzer]

I try to keep one eye on the tree at all times. It depends on the tree if you gotta bust ass out of there or just step a few back. Sometimes there is sawing to do yet as the tree commits or sometimes you can go as its just starting to move. Two weeks ago I had a limb that split off of a nearby tree and rocket at me like a spear. I had to duck quick so I didn't have my head taken off. If I had had my back to it, who knows. I usually drag the saw along unless I've got to wedge to finish then I tuck it in somewhere. I think there are a hell of a lot of factors that go along with hardwood felling in tight canopy.

 

[fredmc]

I case out every tree before I start to cut. I look for vine and dead hangers. I visualize the fall and proceed from there.
Although anymore I'm more worried about grain pull and checking. I've learned more from the fallers on AS than any of the guys I'm workin around.

 

[hammerlogging]

To change the question just a little bit how many of you bring your saw all the way to your safe spot or just pull it off the stump? I now tend to leave the saw as soon as it is free from the cut, that is just out of harms way, and the scamper to my hidey hole. I am going to use the 090 on some bigger trees in a few days and I sure can't run and drag that boat anchor at the same time.

I'll leave it about 1 step and uphill from the stump if the escape route ground is tough, or if there is something else to make the situation a little extra dangerous. I like to take it with me, but not always, thats for sure.\

To clarify, my actions from the moment I'm finished cutting is turn, stride stride stride, maybe one more, turn and look up. That gets me atleast 15 feet away and the tree has still only just begun to fall by the time I'm looking up. Still its just that turning away for those few steps I know can be way different than others technique.

I went canoeing in a flooded Mobile River delta 2 days ago, saw MANY cypress 4' plus on the stump. Beauties. Back to work tomorrow.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i get teased

but i haul as fast as my fat will let me till i'm sure whats up. to quote a wise old man " a good run beats a bad stand everytime" i had a kid who ragged on me about how i took off. next tree was a dead 80 plus foot leaner on a slope. i took off and as it started over it hit the tree next to it and the top 30 foot broke off and came down a couple feet from the stump scared him and he was 50 foot away.i remember the way ther ground shook and it motivates me

 

[huskyhank]

snipped.....

to quote a wise old man " a good run beats a bad stand everytime"

Hard to argue with that.

But there is this "matador" thing about standing at the stump watching it fall.
(not me though)

 

[wvlogger]

I usally bite the bullet till the last minute then run unless i know there are over head hazzards. Then i haul ass as soon as it starts over. But i am always looking up. I never leave my saw at the stump unless i am on steep ground. Then it easier to just leave it.

 

[bullbuck]

You have something that is working well for you, keep it going. I've never been to your side of the world so I can't/won't say anything about it. Here with the height keep a look up and if you are paying attention and see something coming you will have time to back away if you have a path or two ready to use. Granted we don't have many limbs that will spread 30 foot from the stem, that would indeed change the game especially in a lower canopy. I know when I get into an oak patch I prefer that look up and live while in a controlled retreat. Seem like every time an oak comes down there is always crap in a 8'+ radius around the stump, some of it isn't small either. With our stuff however sometimes it seems as if the safest place is right at and behind the stump and then sometimes not.

Red has a strong theory that I like and follow myself. Two industries I have worked in now that this works in. "LOOK UP AND LIVE"

Every tree and situation is different. About the time you get lax about what can happen is when you are reminded. Hopefully though it won't be your last reminder. That said close calls are a part of this game and will never be totally avoided, but getting your bell rung should not happen if you are paying close attention a we should all be doing every step of the way. Until that stem you are working is on the ground and the crap is done falling with it, it deserves our utmost respect, then and only then do I continue on to the next.

I don't consider myself seasoned yet if ever. However when I was still very green we had a young bull snorter show up and show us how things are done in production. The old timers getting me cut in said give that cull a wide birth so I did. About two weeks into it he started another before the one before was done. Turned his back on the first to start the next, well that first one laid slow("leave a big hinge so you don't have to pay attention once they commit") into another top and rolled, pulled the straps and that chaired. The chair flew up and cracked him in the hip and sent him on his way. He tossed into a vine maple mess that he just angle stobbed and ran a stob thru his thigh when he landed with the same side that the chair dislocated his hip and on landing he compounded his femur along with that stob. That was his last day walking normal again, damn lucky that wasn't his last day period.

You aren't done until the dust settles on what you are working on at the time, then you can take your eyes off of it.If you have a system that works well keep it going. Remember Burvol and his #1. Stay safe and healthy, your no good to anyone if you can't get anything done, or something like that. Do what ever it takes to follow rule number 1. Run and scream like a school girl if you need too. If you have a cutting partner he'll have a good time watching you do it.



Owl

very good read,and lots of good advice there,a fella that taught me alot told me and i quote"saws are replaceable but log cutters are hard to come by"i always took this thinking to heart and it has saved me numerous times,and generally the saw doesnt get hurt when left behind either?but if it does theres a new one waiting,kinda hard to build a new you though

 

[Gypo Logger]

For the most part, the safest place to be is at the stump when the tree falls, but that's only 99% of the time. For that reason I always cleared out of the way.
Lingering at the stump is more of a west coast thing, mostly because of a clearcut situation and because softwood in general is not as brittle as hardwood.
Hardwood has alot bigger crown than softwood and because hardwoods are generaly taken down in a selective process, it's important to get the hell out of the way and not stand near the stump waiting to get pummeled.
I believe that someone who falls hardwood can also be very adept at falling softwood, but not the other way around. Hardwood is a whole different learning curve.
Gypo