ethical question of sorts...

[stihl.logger]

i was approached by one of my log buyers today stating that he resigned from his job do to personal conflicts with his boss (wich i knew about and am ok with ) and wanted a job working for me on the falling crew

here are my concerns:

he is 58 years old (im not doging him or anyone else for not being my age) and hasnt been falling trees in twenty years. Does he still have it in him? What happens if he doesnt cut the mustard? I dont want any hard feelings over it. I think he could bring alot to the crew, but is he able to fit in with my other guys? I want him to do things my way, is he too set in his ways? Does he even remember half of what he knew?

Secondly, what is my customer gonna think if they see he cam to work for me, will i have shot myself in the foot? Will they be ok with it or is there going to be bad blood?

Anyone have any experiance with this delema? Or any input in general?

 

[fdoberman]

Real simple math here.
1, do you have work for him, and can he make you money doing that work?

2, As to what he knows and still remembers, you should be asking him not the forum

3, Doing it your way, seems like it would be smart to talk to the man before you hire him and see what he feels on the subject. Did you ever think he might know a few things you don't, and his way might be better or at least equal?

4, 58 don't mean sh!t in 2011, and it didn't mean much when I was 58. Heart crapped out when I was 62, and from then on things were different.

5, It ain't going to cost you anything but time to talk to the man.

6, Former employer is just that, FORMER! If they are children who will hold hiring him against you you best be looking for new customers yesterday, because that place will crash & burn.

 

[rmh3481]

I agree with doberman. As long as he is healthy and has a good work ethic, and you have the work, how can you go wrong?

 

[avason]

Recommendation

Why don't you go talk to his former boss to get a recommendation? Don't ask him about the personal business because it is not yours. Just ask him if he would recommend the guy. I don't think you should hire anyone unless you talk to their former employer. That goes with any business. You'll easily find out if the guy is a sh!t bag or a strong worker. The former employer has nothing to gain or lose by telling you how it is. Keep us posted.

 

[madhatte]

Why don't you go talk to his former boss to get a recommendation?

I get the impression from the OP that everybody already knows each other; however, this is probably the most diplomatic thing to do. If nothing else, it keeps Secret Societies from forming and causing rifts in otherwise-good business.

 

[BigGthetree]

Here's my two cents. I cut seasonally early spring to fall. I'm not quite as old as your buddy, but I know that after I have been out of the woods for a few months, it takes me at least a good month to get back in shape, and I have been doing this for years. If you hire him, he'll need some time to work the kinks out. Do you have time to allow for him to get back into shape?

 

[Rearden]

Tread lightly...

In today's lawyer driven, PC world ya have to be careful what ya ask of a previous employer. If there is a personal relationship you might get away with it, but there are lawyers a plenty that live for this stuff. According to most of the latest and greatest regulations to help you out of business, you can't ask much beyond his name and did he work for you. You can give the dates that he supplies and they can affirm or deny, and most places won't do anything at all unless you request the info in writing so their lawyer can check it out before they return it. It's nuts.

Other than that, my general rule is "If they ain't got grey hair they ain't gettin' in my truck". Probably explains why I have so few friends and work alone.

Most of the kids don't or won't make a full week, are always broke and borrowin' money "against next week's pay...or how'a bout the week after that?" Every time I turn around there's a cell phone and some kind of texting crap going on and they lose or break more tools than they own. I'll go to the woods with an arthritic old fart (my twin) before draggin' any late sleepin' pudd'n head. Then there's the hurt feelings... OMG! Say the wrong thing about him droppin' a saw in the mud and walkin' away and he's gotta be taken home and put back on mommy's teat for a neck rub and a lullaby. Last one I had I asked to work a little late to finish up a job so we could start another the next day without wasting another trip for a few hours work. Holy moly, you'd 'a thought I had asked for his first born and to sleep with his girl. When I told him I was gonna stay and finish with or without him he said he'd wait in the truck.

So help me, when I gave him his last pay a day later, he actually expected to get paid for the two hours he sat texting his girl friend while I finished up. :bang:

I think I may have lived too long.

 

[BigGthetree]

"I think I may have lived too long."

I hear you brother, boy do I hear you. Heaven help us if we ever get into a real knock-down drag-out war and we need everyone, not just the brave volunteers that serve today.

What really cracks me up are the kids that want to go from just being hired into an office with a nice chair. The idea of working hard and apprenticing just doesn't exist in their thinking. And then they whine if you hire some hard working guy from south of the border, that will work until he drops. Arrghhhh.

"Ballast, chief. We'll take'm along as ballast" Robert Shaw from Jaws.

 

[Rearden]

"I think I may have lived too long."

I hear you brother, boy do I hear you. Heaven help us if we ever get into a real knock-down drag-out war and we need everyone, not just the brave volunteers that serve today.

What really cracks me up are the kids that want to go from just being hired into an office with a nice chair. The idea of working hard and apprenticing just doesn't exist in their thinking. And then they whine if you hire some hard working guy from south of the border, that will work until he drops. Arrghhhh.

"Ballast, chief. We'll take'm along as ballast" Robert Shaw from Jaws.

You must've been sittin' just around the corner I swear. Had this little puke, big ring in his ear, I don't mean hanging, I mean inserted into his ear lobe like he was some kind of Ubangi tribal elder, not some little White kid smokin' dope in mommy's basement. He said he needed a job 'cuz he had a baby girl a year old and he had just gotten out'a jail...for smokin' dope? (I guess 'cuz while he didn't have money to buy diapers, he had plenty of money for weed, piercings, his new cell phone and some ink). Now I'm no prude, and I ain't never been no angel. The ink and the hair (it was jet black with blue - like some kind'a industrial accident happened on his head), and even the extra holes in the head and the weed. I'm a Libertarian soul who just wishes the gubmint would leave us all alone, but this 21 yer old kid didn't have screwy priorities... he had none.

First week on the job, he no stuff asked for a company truck and a cell phone. He had been employed for three days, made it to work twice, once he even got there on time, lost at least four pair of work gloves, two hearing protectors and a tape. The proud mother of his child was the 17 year old daughter of a friend, so I persevered. You can't make this crap up..., he expected an explanation for why he couldn't have my other pick-up to drive, since I had two, and like was I greedy or sumthin'? Truck #2, not that it's any of his business, is my Tundra. It's paid for, as is my other truck, my home and everything else that I own. When I tried to explain the ant and the grasshopper fable his eyes just glazed over. From that point forth his name was grasshopper... and he thought I was making a Kung-Fu reference (moron).

Two weeks later he finally managed to accumulate 40 hours of actual on site time. I really don't know what else to call it, 'cuz it sure as heck wasn't work. That didn't work out too good either. By the third week end he had already borrowed a day into the next week, and I was just sick of him. He, and his child, and his baby's muva are all living in perfectly happy squalor in her father's unfinished basement, on the dole and probably waitin' for him to kill himself at work. He tells me the basement always smells like weed, and Mikey had another new tattoo mysteriously appear, but they still never have money for diapers.

Be of good cheer..., they're the ones gonna be runnin' the world when we're all in Depends. Me...I think I'll keep the .45 loaded and close to my head. :msp_scared:

As for the illegals, I'm not down with that at all, but I did have a crew of legal Salvadorians that I used to use for hard-scape projects that were amazing. Not racist but it must be somethin' in their Mayan or Aztec blood lines the stone work that they did. As long as you kept puttin' work in front of them they'd keep workin'. Maybe we might be able to grab a couple of S.S. cards from the Mikeys of our world and deport them to Central America for a little capitalist appreciation boot camp?

 

[fdoberman]

It's just the inevitable result of the Welfare System put into place in 1968 by that Grate Society that's been grating on my a$$ ever since.
I refuse to take any responsibility for that crap because I was on the other side of the world at the time.

I keep hearing how we have an Illegal problem and how they take jobs away from Americans. BULLCRAP! Stop paying people on welfare to just exist and you can bet the Illegals will be gone in 60 days when the tater tickets quit feeding human wasteproduct. They'll damn sure learn what work is or starve figuring it out. There is a lot to be said for the ambition generated when hungry sets in.

 

[Sport Faller]

I get pretty pissed when I get lumped in with the rest of my lazy assed generation, I work my ass off when it's available, and yes, I do work for my Dad however he's not the "well he's my boy so I paved the way for him to have it easy" he's more like the "I've worked my ass off and you will too and I'm sure as hell not gonna have you labeled as the bosses kid" I get worked like a rented mule hooked up to a stolen plow

so for all of the cats who think today's kids are worthless ####heels, well you're pretty damn right for the most part but there are a few out there who try to make an honest go of it

 

[OregonSawyer]

I get pretty pissed when I get lumped in with the rest of my lazy assed generation, I work my ass off when it's available, and yes, I do work for my Dad however he's not the "well he's my boy so I paved the way for him to have it easy" he's more like the "I've worked my ass off and you will too and I'm sure as hell not gonna have you labeled as the bosses kid" I get worked like a rented mule hooked up to a stolen plow

so for all of the cats who think today's kids are worthless ####heels, well you're pretty damn right for the most part but there are a few out there who try to make an honest go of it

I reckon we are roughly the same age. It also drives me nuts seeing lame ass lazy kids these days. People always tell me that I "have an old soul". I guess that means old souls like work and have traditional values. I think I was born a few decades late....

 

[Rearden]

I reckon we are roughly the same age. It also drives me nuts seeing lame ass lazy kids these days. People always tell me that I "have an old soul". I guess that means old souls like work and have traditional values. I think I was born a few decades late....

And you are destined to endure a longer and more dis-spiriting existence than myself, hence my "Lived too long" comment.

 

[Sport Faller]

I reckon we are roughly the same age. It also drives me nuts seeing lame ass lazy kids these days. People always tell me that I "have an old soul". I guess that means old souls like work and have traditional values. I think I was born a few decades late....

Yeah I'm 27, I feel like I was born a bit too late myself however I do likes the technology of these days (we're talking on the internet after all) but it's pitiful when a Woolrich wool jacket (not even Filson!) cost 200 ####### dollars and a decent pair of Malone pants isn't that far behind

 

[BigGthetree]

Yeah I'm 27, I feel like I was born a bit too late myself however I do likes the technology of these days (we're talking on the internet after all) but it's pitiful when a Woolrich wool jacket (not even Filson!) cost 200 ####### dollars and a decent pair of Malone pants isn't that far behind

You will do well in life. You have the right attitude. Felt much the same when I was your age. Geez I sound old just typing this. Back to work!

 

[floyd]

Hire him with a 90 day review. That will give him enough time to get over the appendage dragging part & see if he still has it.

If he has a brain he will know if he can still cut it in a week.



Never underestimate the old men. They know the exceptions to the rule.

 

[madhatte]

When I tried to explain the ant and the grasshopper fable his eyes just glazed over. From that point forth his name was grasshopper... and he thought I was making a Kung-Fu reference

That's hilarious. I know the type for sure.

 

[Rearden]

Yeah I'm 27, I feel like I was born a bit too late myself however I do likes the technology of these days (we're talking on the internet after all) but it's pitiful when a Woolrich wool jacket (not even Filson!) cost 200 ####### dollars and a decent pair of Malone pants isn't that far behind

A'rightey now Jake... that'll be quite enough 'a dat. I actually have an old Filson Dbl, Back Mac that's older than you. Shudder to think what it woud cost me now.

I'd give the "old guy" a shot. Like was said, talk to him to make sure you're on the same page and don't sweat the customer. I don't get what you're a'feared of, they let him go. Unless you're afraid that whatever caused it might shine bad on you for not mindin' it.

 

[Rearden]

That's hilarious. I know the type for sure.

Yeah I guess. At least til we find out that he's got a new job approvin' Dept. of Energy Loans.

 

[redprospector]

You must've been sittin' just around the corner I swear. Had this little puke, big ring in his ear, I don't mean hanging, I mean inserted into his ear lobe like he was some kind of Ubangi tribal elder, not some little White kid smokin' dope in mommy's basement. He said he needed a job 'cuz he had a baby girl a year old and he had just gotten out'a jail...for smokin' dope? (I guess 'cuz while he didn't have money to buy diapers, he had plenty of money for weed, piercings, his new cell phone and some ink). Now I'm no prude, and I ain't never been no angel. The ink and the hair (it was jet black with blue - like some kind'a industrial accident happened on his head), and even the extra holes in the head and the weed. I'm a Libertarian soul who just wishes the gubmint would leave us all alone, but this 21 yer old kid didn't have screwy priorities... he had none.

First week on the job, he no stuff asked for a company truck and a cell phone. He had been employed for three days, made it to work twice, once he even got there on time, lost at least four pair of work gloves, two hearing protectors and a tape. The proud mother of his child was the 17 year old daughter of a friend, so I persevered. You can't make this crap up..., he expected an explanation for why he couldn't have my other pick-up to drive, since I had two, and like was I greedy or sumthin'? Truck #2, not that it's any of his business, is my Tundra. It's paid for, as is my other truck, my home and everything else that I own. When I tried to explain the ant and the grasshopper fable his eyes just glazed over. From that point forth his name was grasshopper... and he thought I was making a Kung-Fu reference (moron).

Two weeks later he finally managed to accumulate 40 hours of actual on site time. I really don't know what else to call it, 'cuz it sure as heck wasn't work. That didn't work out too good either. By the third week end he had already borrowed a day into the next week, and I was just sick of him. He, and his child, and his baby's muva are all living in perfectly happy squalor in her father's unfinished basement, on the dole and probably waitin' for him to kill himself at work. He tells me the basement always smells like weed, and Mikey had another new tattoo mysteriously appear, but they still never have money for diapers.

Be of good cheer..., they're the ones gonna be runnin' the world when we're all in Depends. Me...I think I'll keep the .45 loaded and close to my head. :msp_scared:

As for the illegals, I'm not down with that at all, but I did have a crew of legal Salvadorians that I used to use for hard-scape projects that were amazing. Not racist but it must be somethin' in their Mayan or Aztec blood lines the stone work that they did. As long as you kept puttin' work in front of them they'd keep workin'. Maybe we might be able to grab a couple of S.S. cards from the Mikeys of our world and deport them to Central America for a little capitalist appreciation boot camp?

Hahaha. I think this guy worked for me in 08, except there was no black in his hair (just blue) and he had a blue goatee on his chin.
I look back and I must have been needing help pretty bad in 08.

Andy