Ever hit a sprinkler line with a stump grinder?

[mattfr12]

You cut the wire, but you were not electrocuted through the grinder?

ya i cut the wire it sparked and everything but it was a regular 110 line it would be like cutting and exstension cord so the electricity dispersed through the machine was probably not enough for me to feel it and if you did it would be like sticking your finger in a light socket just hurt like hell. a larger voltage line could be fatal.

 

[treeclimber101]

No irrigation repair is done in 5 minutes. Even by the irrigation specialist parked beside the injured pipe.

Yes! There are ways of locating even a PVC pipe. Unless you specialize in irrigation, it will be cheaper to hit the line and then fix it.



Others have said that you can find a pipe with a probe, while preparing to do stump grinding. I won't say it's impossible, but it is sure unlikely to work in the root flare of an established tree. How would you tell a tree root from an irrigation pipe? Sound? Not real likely, since the roots will all interfere with hitting the pipe to begin with.

Well that just a little literal , but I installed and have repaired irrigation systems they a joke , even a valve is a half hr. job really you can probe all day long and punch holes in the pipes looking for them ....

 

[treeclimber101]

Heres one I know a man who doing a job at an old farm house close to my shop , he pulled into the side yard and set up his truck , he took the boom out of the cradle rotated to the left and the truck flipped over, I 've seen the pics , come to find out that someone covered an old well with a thin layer of concrete and topsoiled over it , the outrigger went through the concrete and fell in, but heres the thing the truck was paid for and he only had collision , the homeowners wouldn't pay for it because it was a business vehicle the guys own business insurance would only give him 2,000 towards replacement of the truck, so long story short he was screwed , and the kicker is the HO at the house when he saw what had happened said he knew it was there but never thought the truck would break through it .....He had the nerve to sue the guy for the damage to his yard and also wanted the hole filled , I mean come the hell really..

 

[pdqdl]

Boom trucks are notorious for flipping when the soft ground drops an outrigger.

If he was in the business, he knew the risk.

 

[treeclimber101]

Boom trucks are notorious for flipping when the soft ground drops an outrigger.

If he was in the business, he knew the risk.

Oh so hidden well holes are a normal thing , really you sound like a insurance adjuster and frankly thats the stupidest thing that could be said , plain and simple if that happened to me I would sue the homeowner , and guess what I could not care less about it , I would never do work in his yard again because he's an idiot and I'll pass on the referral too cause birds of a feather flock together..

 

[pdqdl]

Oh so hidden well holes are a normal thing , really you sound like a insurance adjuster and frankly thats the stupidest thing that could be said , plain and simple if that happened to me I would sue the homeowner , and guess what I could not care less about it , I would never do work in his yard again because he's an idiot and I'll pass on the referral too cause birds of a feather flock together..

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, so lighten up. If you want to start a pissing match, I think I will be happy to accommodate you. If you mean to say that insurance adjusters are intelligent people, and that I sound like one...Gee! Thanks.

Stupid is, as stupid does.



Aerial devices flip for two main reasons: overload (operator error) and unstable ground. That's it! Any real crane operator knows all about trying to eliminate risk by stabilizing the outriggers with extra padding.

Sometime bad things happen. Good luck finding a lawyer willing to prove that a homeowner should know more about the safety risks to a boom truck than the operator.

 

[treeclimber101]

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, so lighten up. If you want to start a pissing match, I think I will be happy to accommodate you. If you mean to say that insurance adjusters are intelligent people, and that I sound like one...Gee! Thanks.

Stupid is, as stupid does.



Aerial devices flip for two main reasons: overload (operator error) and unstable ground. That's it! Any real crane operator knows all about trying to eliminate risk by stabilizing the outriggers with extra padding.

Sometime bad things happen. Good luck finding a lawyer willing to prove that a homeowner should know more about the safety risks to a boom truck than the operator.

I highly doubt that a real crane operator or any other operator pulls into a property expecting to fall into a void , and you wanna have a pissing match about cranes that fine too, cranes bucket highreaches work on unstable ground more often than not , the trick is proper cribbing and site understanding a 4ft. wide hole that is hidden by some kinda wyley coyote boobey trap is not something that any operators plan on , and there are plenty of lawyers that would see that the well was halfassed dealt with , so frankly you are slightly slow on the uptake...Frankly I probably have forgotten more situations than you where cranes and our man lifts have been set up in areas less than ideal ..

 

[BC WetCoast]

When it comes to hitting irrigation lines, I seem to be attracted to them. I've hit them a fertilizer injector, ground them with a stumper, hit them with a pick while hand digging out a stump and put a shovel through it while digging out a shrub.

I've never had an HO give me a diagram of their system, although some have shown me generally where they think they are located. We also do condo complexes and commercial properties, so there is no one who knows where the system is located. Also you have to accept the fact that sometimes the irrigation system was install by previous homeowners and the new owners have no clue where the lines run. (Do you know where the electrical or plumbing lines are in your wall?).

Our policy is: if we break it we fix it. Although there have been situations where the HO has voluntarily accepted responsibility because they didn't previously inform us.

I have seen a situation where an irrigation line was pressurized but the system wasn't on. It was in a condo complex and the main trunk lines appeared to be pressurized permanently, but there were electric operated valves that shut the distribution lines when the sprinklers weren't operating. This was the one we got with a shovel digging up a shrub. It was down about 8".

For you irrigation pipe repair pros, what is the best way to repair a line when it isn't really feasible to dig back (due to roots, walls, rocks etc) along the line so you can bend it to get the coupling to install. When I worked for a muni waterworks, we had a bolt on coupling to repair water main breaks, but have never seen anything like this for PVC.

 

[Treetom]

I carry extra hose, clamps and couplers just in case, for hitting the irrigation lines. Sometimes you just can't avoid it and do an adequate stump grind. Also have hit gas lines, wheel hubs from old cars, glavanized pipe, electrical lines (no live ones, yet), a lot of concrete. Just part of the job.

 

[lone wolf]

"I highly doubt that a real crane operator or any other operator pulls into a property expecting to fall into a void"

I sure do expect it and I would be foolish not to expect a septic to be in a yard! OK maybe I would not expect one to be under someones driveway.

 

[treemandan]

In NC, they will only gurentee location of public utilities. Sprinkler lines aren't included. Getting the HO involved is a GREAT thing to do!

Anyone with stumper experience should carry a ground probe on their truck and be familiar with looking for sprinkler heads and locating probable line directions / locations.

He is lucky that's all he found was a sprinkler. Between the 811 call and what the client tells me I feel OK about going subteranean. This is the first thing that comes up when stumping.

But FTA has a point, if those people started in on me I would have been more pissed too. A sprinkler? That's nothing! You should see what I am really capable of destroying.

 

[beastmaster]

Sometime bad things happen. Good luck finding a lawyer willing to prove that a homeowner should know more about the safety risks to a boom truck than the operator.

There's such a thing as gross negligence. Having a lightly covered hole in your yard camouflaged with a thin layer of soil could possibly fall under that .
I am pro, "except responability", but I still use to have on my work orders/bid sheets in small print,under stump grinding; Not responsible for underground utilitys, I haven't been informed about in advance.
I never had to invoke that clause, and wouldn't unless it was a case of gross negligence.

 

[ForTheArborist]

PDQL, maybe it was a different line. There were three of them on top of each other, 3/4" pvc, I busted two, and at least one was running.

So its the stupid homeowners fault you caused this damage huh? do you blame everything that happens on someone else if you did that to me and did not accept responsibility you better run away fast!

I know you're kidding us. I'm know you would regret "stepping" on something more live than you can handle, brainiac.

___

I would sue the guy for having an unsafe structure under the lane where boom trucks can fall in. It's weird, but in this state people can sue you for being injured on your property. I suppose this all goes the direction of "if you operate, manage, own it, you better make it safe." Somebody sued McDonalds for damages by their coffee. Slips and falls on the property because of unsafe structures are in too. Now the guy has a empty spot below the lane of all places, and he says he knew about it - NOT going to hold up in his favor in court except in some countries.



___
They pipes aren't that big of a deal. I just need to get 'em to sign the dotted line before I start stumping. I hate giving people an unfair advantage over me even if it's just heckling rights. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Double_Diamond]

To answer WetCoast’s question regarding PVC repair when you are not able to expose a sufficient amount of pipe to bend it into a standard coupling you can use a “PVC Expansion Repair Coupling”. Just Google it and you can see what it looks like. Hands down it is cheapest and easiest way to repair a PVC line with a hole. You will never have to uncover a bunch of pipe again.

While I am not an arborist I am a civil engineer and deal with contractors and underground utilities all the time. It should be everyone’s standard practice to call the local utility locator service (a free service in the US) prior to any type of excavation. While this doesn’t help with private utilities it will delineate any public utilities and absolve you of any responsibility if a public utility is damaged that was not marked. Just as an example, we had a contractor hit a marked 2” gas main. By the time it was repaired he was on the hook for $20,000 for lost gas and repair costs for the gas company. You never know when there may be a pubic utility easement running across someone’s yard or when previous construction activates have removed a significant amount of soil so instead of a gas or electric line being 42” deep it is 6” deep. We have seen that on a few occasions too.

 

[millbilly]

I posted a couple of questions; no answer yet!

1. How did you hit an irrigation line with pressure in it.
(irrigation lines DON"T have pressure in them unless the system is turned on. Since you wouldn't be grinding while the sprinklers were running, I suspect a problem)
In other words, how do you know it was an irrigation line? I'll bet it was a service line to some other water supply on the property.

2. How deep were you digging when you hit the pipes?


Non-answers to these important questions don't inspire us to have confidence in you.

irrigation mains have pressure. The lateral runs dont have pressure

 

[DavidBrown1212]

I broke a irrigation line the other day when I dropped a large spare on the yard. The guy wanted "rock bottom economy" removal, and I told him that there would be collateral damage to nearby trees, turf, ect. I swallowed the repair with a smile on my face, because the HO went through a similar reaction, and ended up landing a mulch job out it. Anything you hit while digging or grinding is always your fault, your cost.

 

[lone wolf]

:agree2:

I broke a irrigation line the other day when I dropped a large spare on the yard. The guy wanted "rock bottom economy" removal, and I told him that there would be collateral damage to nearby trees, turf, ect. I swallowed the repair with a smile on my face, because the HO went through a similar reaction, and ended up landing a mulch job out it. Anything you hit while digging or grinding is always your fault, your cost.

 

[pdqdl]

irrigation mains have pressure. The lateral runs dont have pressure

Do you do irrigation as a professional service? I do.

Lawn sprinkler systems in the US must have a backflow preventer and a master valve. Nothing beyond that point is "live" unless the system is turned on. I suppose it would be possible to get some jackleg installation that did it wrong, too.

Unless there is a separate and unusual installation, water to operate the system is drawn from somewhere close to the meter for the best pressure performance, but generally inside the structure on the property. Any "live" water lines should be buried lower than a stump grinder would hit under normal grinding conditions.

Hence, my comments.

 

[Arbordocs]

A question I had brought me to this discussion. Unfortunately, what helpful advise I gained from your postings was, Don't ask a question or you will be made to feel stupid and inept. In an industry where many of us operate in states where no education is required, we can all benefit from sharing accurate information with each other. Some day you may benefit from someone else's charitable advise. My question had to do with this same issue. In a litigation happy world, it is my desire to post disclaimers and helpful advise on the back of my estimates. Does anyone have a disclaimer they use for stump grinding, root barriers, etc. in regards to digging. Yes, I ask my clients to contact 811 before digging. Thank you good kind sirs for the valiant knights you are.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Oh so hidden well holes are a normal thing , really you sound like a insurance adjuster and frankly thats the stupidest thing that could be said , plain and simple if that happened to me I would sue the homeowner , and guess what I could not care less about it , I would never do work in his yard again because he's an idiot and I'll pass on the referral too cause birds of a feather flock together..

Yes, hidden well holes are a normal thing.