Fire

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I was just going to mention MacLean. Not to sound insensitive, I do hope he writes a book about this event. I always learn as much from his treatments of casualty fires as I do from the officially-released Incident Reports and "Lessons Learned", largely because he humanizes the events, which helps me to put into perspective what I would have done, and/or what I would have done differently. He does a real service to the Fire Community in that way, so that we have another tool to prevent repeating mistakes.
 
attachment.php
 
I read one rumor where they were sent there to build a safety zone, but the fire blew up before it was done.

I listened to a cat (dozer) guy talk about being on the Dude Fire, which also was in AZ and had fatalities.
He took a look at the fuels and immediately set about clearing a huge area as his safety zone. Nobody told him to do so.

He used it later on.
 
I have many friends who grew up with several of the fallen fire fighters. Good men on all counts.

On a side note. Is john MacLean related to Norman MacLean, who wrote an excellent book called young men and fire?
 
I have many friends who grew up with several of the fallen fire fighters. Good men on all counts.

On a side note. Is john MacLean related to Norman MacLean, who wrote an excellent book called young men and fire?


Norman was his dad.
 
I've whored myself out as a faller on wildland fires a few times. It's been my experience that, other than structure protection, the whole thing is a massive waste of time and tax-payer money (but hey, I put a down payment on my property and paid for a new truck in the process). It puts a bunch of folks out in the woods "working" that otherwise wouldn't be there. It's become an industry unto itself. Pretty pathetic for the most part. Flame away but it will fall on deaf ears. I've personally witnessed the BS that goes along with "fighting fire" out in the woods, in three different states.

Just wanted to respond (to myself) here. What I wrote makes it sound like I think wildland firefighting is a joke. It most certainly isn't. I was mostly commenting (poorly) on the lack of efficiency that I've seen on fires that I've been a part of. I definitely didn't mean to offend anyone.
 
Just wanted to respond (to myself) here. What I wrote makes it sound like I think wildland firefighting is a joke. It most certainly isn't. I was mostly commenting (poorly) on the lack of efficiency that I've seen on fires that I've been a part of. I definitely didn't mean to offend anyone.

I came away, in the 1980s, with the same opinion. In fact, it bothered me so much, that seeing what went on, plus having smoke sensitive lungs, made me reluctant to go anymore.
 
Budget cuts, even for fire, are the wave of the future, unfortunately. Adding to that, the burden of thinning should not fully rely on federal or state governments' shoulders. Land and homeowners need to take responsibility, too. More so than they have in the past.

However, the Granite Mountain 19 should not have died on that fire. Their deaths were totally unnecessary! No house, no patch of timber, and certainly no endangered wildlife habitat is worth firefighters dying over. That #### can burn to the ground. And it can be easily rebuilt. Those 19 lives lost will never be rebuilt.

How many South Canyon, Dude, Mann Gulch, and Yarnell Hill fires will it take for people to realize that their material things, when built in a fire-dependent ecosystem, become part of that ecosystem, and will, at some point more than likely burn? Accept it. And when will land and housing developers start being held partly financially responsible for firefighter deaths on wildland incidents? After all, it was their actions that indirectly caused a need for suppression. And when will we stop trying to "save" portions of wild lands that have a tremendous fire deficit? The effects of Smokey Bear's negative legacy are still churning.
 
Another thing to think about.

Some talking head was writing about "Why weren't the big air tankers called out."

That is where the wasted money starts. Talk to folks who have called the shots on the big fires. They'll tell tales about how they HAD to order air tankers even when the planes did not do any good because of public pressure. Laypeople think that unless you have expensive air tankers dropping retardent all day, you are not doing all you can to fight the fire. I've heard it over and over, that the IC had to order retardent drops even though it did no good.

IC is incident commander.
 
Hrmm, lookit what showed up in my e-mail this morning. It seems a bit early, yet not premature:

WADNR said:
Effective at 0001 (12:01) on Wednesday, July 17th 2013 the Industrial Fire
Precaution Level (IFPL) for Zone 659N will be changing to a IFPL 2, Partial
Hootowl.



Level 2. Partial Hootowl - The following may operate only between the hours
of 8 p.m. and 1 p.m. local time:

=Power saws except at loading sites;

=Cable yarding;

=Blasting;

=Welding or cutting of metal.

Also effective at 0001 (12:01) on Wednesday July 17th 2013 the Fire Danger
Rating for King, Kitsap, Pierce, & Mason Counties will move to Moderate.
Lewis County will remain at a Low.
 
we just got an pre-alert " are you ready" phone call. Any day now our truck should be going out. I won't be on the first few calls, my knee is not solid enough yet. Don't want to become "an incident within an incident". Not that sittin' around would be bad for my knee.LOL. last year we went on a fire and sat in staging for 19 days and the y sent us to anoyher fire to work for 3 1/2 days and sit for 1 more week. Gotta love the planning :hmm3grin2orange:
 
We are at that. I've got to decide if I am healed up or not in order to go on a trail thing Friday. I quit taking vitamin I today. We shall see if I walk normally in the morning. Well, I guess I should say normal for me.

We got about 6 drops of rain today.
 
Harrumph. I'll admit to "falling apart" when I can't heal any more. I got stuff to do still.

Yup. But sometimes the body has it's own agenda. As in, when you're faced with a task that you know you shouldn't do...your mind tells you "go ahead and do that" and your body replies "if you do I'm going to make you pay". And then it does.
Afterwards you're gimping around , encased in plaster, or bandages, or maybe some nice white gauze held firmly in place to hairy areas of your body with that special surgical adhesive tape known only to sadistic nurses (also used by aircraft mechanics to afix wings to airplanes) cussing and mumbling to yourself and swearing that you'll never ignore that faint small voice in the back of your head ever again. But you will. Count on it.
 
Yup. But sometimes the body has it's own agenda. As in, when you're faced with a task that you know you shouldn't do...your mind tells you "go ahead and do that" and your body replies "if you do I'm going to make you pay". And then it does.
Afterwards you're gimping around , encased in plaster, or bandages, or maybe some nice white gauze held firmly in place to hairy areas of your body with that special surgical adhesive tape known only to sadistic nurses (also used by aircraft mechanics to afix wings to airplanes) cussing and mumbling to yourself and swearing that you'll never ignore that faint small voice in the back of your head ever again. But you will. Count on it.

Hey, I've resembled that remark, on multiple occasions. Call me a slow learner.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top