** First climb to do real work, Want criticism **

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THC

ArboristSite Lurker
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Location
Georgetown, IN
This is a bit long and I hope it does not bore anyone. But if you don't ask, then how do you learn??

Gentlemen,

The ole Marine is back and I want to describe a first climb for you guys to criticize. This means, point out dangers, errors, where I could have improved technique, and anything else that comes to mind.

If you guys may remember, I had asked what to buy as a beginner for climbing into the trees that were damaged due to severe storms we had last spring.

I have read “The Tree Climbers Companion” by Jeff Jepson and am using the traditional climbing system. That is where the Sampson Blue line is thrown over a natural crotch, tided to a locking carabiner using a clove hitch, the carabiner is latched to the two saddle rings and the balance of the line is tied to the running line using a Blake’s Hitch with a Figure Eight stopper knot.

OK, now for the action.

The tree is a 50 year old wild Cherry that is some what diseased as smaller limbs are rotting and falling out from time to time. The base is a good 24 plus inches in diameter, with few horizontal limbs spaced at about 6 to 8 feet apart going up the main trunk which splits off at approximately 10 feet in to two near vertical trunks and then again into four verticle trunks at about 20 feet extending on up for another 30 feet to the top canopy.

The objective was to remove one of the four trunks that was broken and hanging at about 35 feet above the ground. The hanging limb is about 20 or so feet in length and at the base 8 inches in diameter. The break was about 30 inches above the nearest horizontal limb of which there were very few. Every foot rest was in a closing crotch that I had to place the heel of the boot into for what little comfort could be had.

Having inspected the tree and my equipment, my first task is to get the 12 oz throw bag tied to a throw line, using a Figure Eight knot, to fall over the natural crotch of the closest main trunk near the broken trunk. This crotch was about 20 or so feet up and after some 17 tries I finally managed to drape the line over the desired crotch. Of course, this was not perfect as the line snagged on a small stub about 30” from the crotch. I then pulled the throw line and bag up near the stub and dropped the bag to the ground. This removed it from the other branches and provided a vertical drop.

Now please keep in mind I have practiced on a small walnut tree in the back yard for a climb of 5 to 8 feet, so I only have a small inkling of how to do this. The climbing rope has been pulled over the limb, still caught on the small stub and both ends are in hand. I used the whipping technique Jeff describes to free the rope from the stub and it then rests correctly in the crotch.

I tied in as previously described, and began the ascent. The first thing I observe is that my feet barely reach the trunk and so the walking up the trunk is out. Here I have a question. How do you fellows pull your body weight upward to then slide the Blake’s Hitch upward for the next pull. I cannot grip the line tightly enough to pull up. The rope simply slides through my grip. I have fairly heavy gloves and so I made two wraps around the right hand and with both hands I was able to pull up say 12 or so inches each time before sliding the Blake’s Hitch upward.

As I progressed up the tree, I removed dead material and one small ½” live branch that was in the way. Nearing the natural crotch I was able to use the trunk to help the climb and then reached the first horizontal limb that was 5 feet or so below the tie in crotch. From here I used a rope lanyard and climbed/shinnied up to the working point slightly above the broken piece to be removed. Having arrived, I find myself with my back to the work and not much to hold on to for use to get turned around. I used the lanyard to keep me secured should there be a slip or limb break. The only foot hold was a closing crotch that was not great and reaching out on to the work branch/trunk, there was a small 2-1/2” diameter horizontal branch I could use.

The unusual thing about all this is that I did not fail to bring the Fanno saw with me. My first cut was to reduce the weight on the hanging branch. This was accomplished by cutting below the break by about 30 inches or so which permitted the maximum of material to fall away from me and leave me with a much lighter broken piece to handle.

Cutting these pieces from this cramped position was not easy. Three saw cuts later and about 45 minutes, the broken and rotted material fell away to the ground. My problem now is to get down.

I had not disconnected from the climbing line and carried it up the 5 or so feet that was needed to get to the work area. At times this was a problem as I would step on the rope, in turning the feet would get tangled somewhat, but I managed. From the safety point of view, this was probably not a good practice. However should I have slipped, the lanyard would have caught me.

After climbing down below the crotch in which the climbing rope was passed through, I checked the Blake’s Hitch and pushed back from the trunk. This is where I found that I could keep my left hand on the Blake’s Hitch and holding the running line, I could slide the Blake’s Hitch down, then hold the running line out near horizontally to control the decent speed. On the ground again, I laid out my climbing rope, recoiled it back into the bag, rolled up the throw line, which I need to find a small reel for easily rolling it up and I was ready for clean up.

That is it gentlemen!! Let me know your thoughts. I am an old fool, and will appreciate all of your comments. I have to say, this was a challenge, and actually fun to do. I have never used a rope to climb a tree before. It is really neat.

Best regards,
THC
 
Get one of those cheap folding cubes from Sherrills for your throw line and don't <i>coil</i> your rope into the bag, merely stuff it.

Try footlocking the tail, also.

Glen
 
:Eye: :Eye: :Eye: Maybe I misunderstood, but if tying the sharp end to your locking biner, maybe a clove hitch isnt the best pick, at least back it up with a half hitch. try a buntline ties easy, biner cant move around and its bomber and compact.
 
THC...welcome. Not all that long ago I was in your position, hungry for information on how to climb. Then it was how to climb better. Soon there will be a point that you'll come to and your realize this: "The more you learn...the less you really know". (re: tree work) This mentality will keep you humble as will as alive! In other words, don't take on more than your knowledge will allow. It will all come in time. Its good that your learning the basics before getting all the fancy gear, ie-foot locking before pantin foot ascender). Knowing your knots & their uses are another good thing to study up on. Good safety practices and wearing proper PPE is most important. Your life is worth the time & money you'll spend on proper safety equipment. You said you were having trouble while trying to position yourself at working hight. Have you looks into a "loop runner"??? Many many uses for them. ie-speed line chokers, line redirections, miniature false crotch, foot step where none exist, or a limb handle. This info is in the Sherrill catalog pg#69. Just another good source of information. This site is another. View it often and you'll be surprised what you learn. I commend you for asking members of AS questions regarding your recent climb. A humble approach is also wise. As far as my opinion goes...I like the anchor knot over the clove hitch and MI a big fan of friction savers. Look into the different positioning techniques and learn more about the trees you intend to climb. Good luck to ya & be safe up there eh! HC
 
THC said:
tided to a locking carabiner using a clove hitch,



How do you fellows pull your body weight upward to then slide the Blake’s Hitch upward for the next pull. I cannot grip the line tightly enough to pull up. The rope simply slides through my grip. I have fairly heavy gloves and so I made two wraps around the right hand and with both hands I was able to pull up say 12 or so inches each time before sliding the Blake’s Hitch upward.


Instead of a clove hitch, you might also try a bowline.



As for pulling up your weight, when i go up, like you described is basically it. As for gloves, have you tried the altas fit (grippers, smurf, etc) type? With the cold setting in, there are even lined ones. These will dramatically improve your grip on the rope.
 
"This crotch was about 20 or so feet up and after some 17 tries I finally managed to drape the line over the desired crotch"

Try using a 20' extension latter. I carry one on every job for entering the tree. When I first started there was no way I'd be seen on a latter .. It did'nt look professional. But now it's the norm. It save's time and energy. Also think about investing in a Bigshot from Sherrill.

Take it slow and easy. As your learning curve increase's so should your productivity.

Good job over-all. :)
 
i too am new to climbing, i'm currently at collage studying to become an arborist, we climb all day wednesday, i always use a bow line, its one of (if not the) oldest knots used in climbing, on the basis if it ain't broke dont fix it.
I found that if going up is tricky coz your not going into the trunk and can't get your feet on it, get your grounds man, to pull you into the trunk and keep some tension on the running line and as you pull up get him to pull down on the rope.
They started us out on a single 3 strand nylon rope and only allowed to use a prusik knot for the hitch. nowt like making life difficult for us.
 
Gentlemen,

Just want to thank all of you for the input. You are a great bunch of people!!

Best regards,
THC
 
When I climb I have the same problem of gripping the rope to pull yourself up as you note. I presume you are using the hip-thrust technique described in the Companion. I have tried a couple of things to help. First I used an ascender to grip the rope tail with, and cheaper yet, I have also taken a loop of about 2 feet of 1/4" - 3/8" rope and tied a Prussic to the tail below the Blake's hitch and slipped the open loop around my pulling wrist. The Prussic grips the rope when you pull, yet pushes up easily to get set for the next thrust.

The next step is to set a pulley or small key chain biner below the Blake's to advance it automatically as you go up. Again you can secure the pulley about 2 feet above your saddle tie in point on the other part of your climbing rope using a cord loop and a Prussic. The Prussic allows you to set the pulley at just the correct height to advance the Blake's as much as possible.

Gripping the rope and pulling up is something your body must condition itself to do. It is unlike any normal exercise.
 
Drape a short length of rope somewhere in your house or shop and with bare hands, do pull-up(s).&nbsp; When you get to where you can do it with the doubled rope, switch to a single.&nbsp; It can be quite tough but there is really no other exercise which will develop the necessary specific strength.

Even with the ability to do that, you cannot use gloves which are not adequately designed for the task.

Glen
 
Have Faith-

Get a supporing, but low friction crotch.

Pulling on one line of your system is a 2/1 - Friction system. So, odds are on your side.

Serve your hips up to lessen the load and reduce the friction agianst the 2/1 at the same time. Legs loose from upward 'pump'

In unison fall back with chest and headweight (head and shoulders tip down as hips up) to add that to arm pull; feeding into 2/1 with less friction and lightened load. Reverse, extend legs to help bring head shoulders back up to reset.

Get a knot tender, even have someone slowly, lightly on ground walking hitch up behind you so you don't have to stop or be distracted, nor at risk. Don't let them try to pull ya up, it changes the mechanics to 1/1 ! Or extend bridge from belt to friction hitch, and pull from below self tended hitch (instead of above), as hitch now self advances; keep bridge short enough to be able to reach hitch when system is stretched/loaded.

Taking leg weight out of equation agianst the trunk etc. even helping to lift on occasion. Extend legs deep over brances for more leverage, and kick down.

Try a Double Bowline with Yosemite Tie off (DBY); the Y-tie off serves the tail out the top of bowline and over naturally to grab the other leg of the line as host to your friction hitch. Really, go to split tail, get best crotch for working way up, that you can then gain best crotch for working phase easily. Working each phase module to maximum efficiency and safety seperately; as long as smooth transistion between the parts especially. Go for the easiest way up that resets to the best way to work, getting to a good scaffolding point in tree, that serves to work or a 10' throw from.

Or something like that,
i think i read oncet!
:alien:
 
When I read the original comment about not being able to grip the rope, then the very next comment about wearing stout gloves and just taking a couple wraps around you hands...it became clear.

I am guessing you are using leather gloves. Or something else with slippery palms. Switch gloves. Try the smurf-gloves, available at your local hardware store. You'll be amazed.

Regarding the clove hitch, the way you described it, the clove hitch is a perfect knot for what you need. It stays snug around the 'biner, can be adjusted if need be, easy to untie (just slip out the 'biner). No need to switch knots.

Look in Tree Climbers Companion on the pages(s) where they describe the traditional system and look at the split tail versions. Setup is nearly identical to what you described to us, with many advantages.

I don't like the fig. 8 for attaching the throwline to the bag. Tie a loop at the end and just girth-hitch the bag on. It's way faster. Less fussing. If you're up to the challenge, a little eye spliced on the end of the throwline is an even neater way to accomplish the same thing.

love
nick
 
NickfromWI said:
I don't like the fig. 8 for attaching the throwline to the bag. Tie a loop at the end and just girth-hitch the bag on. It's way faster.
My throwbags have solid rings for attachment. Using a girth hitch would require either adding a carabiner or pulling all of my throwline through the hitch, right? Adding a carabiner makes the bag+carabiner more likely to get stuck, and pulling all of the throwline is not quicker for me than just tying a figure 8 knot. What am I missing that makes the girth hitch a better alternative?
 
Make a loop on the end of the throwline (bowline or figure 8), slip the loop thru the ring and then drop the bag thru the loop.
 
CJ-7 said:
Make a loop on the end of the throwline (bowline or figure 8), slip the loop thru the ring and then drop the bag thru the loop.

There's the "earth shattering kaboom" you're looking for!

:cool:

love
nick
 
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