Fun with ethanol

[RiverRat2]

I'm a farmer and and can say with all sincerity THEY SUCK..in bed with monsanto and the profits of death, plus killing our engines with their crap fuel. Over priced crap food and crap fuel.

It's a scam, a pure harmful economic WELFARE scam, they are WELFARE BUMS, they are part of the scam, profiting from the scam, perpetuating the scam, hurting everyone else in the nation, helping cause obesity (look around the nation, just freeking look, freeking corn syrup walking!) with their corn syrup leftover crap stuck in just about every food out there now, part of monsanto controlling the seed industry and corrupting the ag department..just....we've talked about ethanol and the corn lobby before. I got no use for them at all. They are about as useful as them wall street scammer bankers or corrupt politicians.

As a general rule, of course I support our ag industry and farmers, how could I not?..just not the corn lobby, have to make a critical exception there. It is well beyond out of control, just off the charts.

Amen Bro!!!!!!! I iunderstand the farmers need to get a good price for their crops,,,, but this is totally out of hand,,, we should be putting the corn/soybeans in hungry bellies,,,,,, and not in our gasoline!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The lobbiest in DC,,, And Chicago futures mercantile marketers,,,, are getting filthy rich and we suffer the consequenses,,, hmmm let me see Chicago political machine mafia,,, No Bama,,,,, ???????? the emmisions from the ethanol motos are way overboard on the Green house gasses and other bad stuff,,,,, lets face it Pogo was right,,,, "We have found the enemy,,,, and he R us"

me too,, i only mix a gallon at a time,, if i know its going to sit to long then it goes in the mower

Luckily for me I live in rural farming/timber/pulpwood area of SE TX/SW La and Non ethanol is available,,, I have to drive a little bit to go get it so when I go I generally get 25 gallons @ a time,,, that last me a little over a week, (sometimes) mixing 2.5 gallons for each truck/crew per day, with the economy lately some days ony running one stump grinder crew,,,, and or one tree crew,,,, rarely both crews anymore has been the norm :bang::bang::bang:

 

[Rearden]

Bad gas is only getting worse here as well. Thing is, I have to tip toe about it as I'm in the center of corn country. Some guys get all kinds of mad when you say anything bad about gasohol.

They are precisely among the ones that need to hear it every day and sleep on it every night. Why enable their head in the sand attitude. This is just another part of the Welfare State problem, where as long as they get theirs everything's just peachy.

 

[aquan8tor]

looked into it myself a little (wow imagine that nowdays lol) and found you can separate them (phase separation) but that it won't take out all the alcohol, and that the fuel left isn't as volitle and will have a lower octane rating (didn't find hard numbers yet).

I'm sure there's got to be a method to separate them, but it may prove to be cost prohibitive. Although if I were able to do it for all my gas motors (car/truck etc) it may be worth it.

I've read the same stuff; I'm pretty sure that some hydrocarbons drop out along with the water and ethanol. Another guy was talking about doing the same thing, but after reading about the 2-3 point drop in octane rating, I'm not sure I'd want to even try. I'm fortunate to have a station about 15 miles away that sells pure 93 octane, no ethanol. Just for kicks I tried it in my car, and got at least 2-3mpg better on that tank than I usually get with gasohol. GRRR!!!!!

 

[Guido Salvage]

Funny how these threads always veer off towards a condemnation of government policy and our society.

For those of you that posted in that vein, what steps (other than complaining on this forum) have you taken to bring about a change in the policies you abhor? You live in a democratic republic, rather than complaining try becoming involved to make this country a better place.

Remember, you elect the individuals who make the rules....

 

[aquan8tor]

i maybe wrong,,but that looks like more then 10% to me

You can't judge the amount of ethanol by what drops out. The whole reason for phase separation is that the ethanol absorbs a fair amount of water from the air; this is what drops out. It just pulls ethanol with it. From everything I've read, what drops out is something like 50-75% ethanol (and 25-50% water), but some ethanol remains behind. So, it might be more or less than 10% depending on the temperature and how much water your mix has absorbed.

 

[J.W Younger]

looked into it myself a little (wow imagine that nowdays lol) and found you can separate them (phase separation) but that it won't take out all the alcohol, and that the fuel left isn't as volitle and will have a lower octane rating (didn't find hard numbers yet).

I'm sure there's got to be a method to separate them, but it may prove to be cost prohibitive. Although if I were able to do it for all my gas motors (car/truck etc) it may be worth it.

Pump gas nowdays is all pretty much straight run meaning all grades come tru the pipe the same. What happens after the distrubitor gets it can vary a lot. Different additives are added some for good reasons and some not so good. One of the not so good reasons is adding ethanol to arrive at the stated octane rating..Even the best pump gas will still be a chemical soup and I'm not sure but some of that soup other than the ethanol may be soluble in water, I know acetone is but don't think its used anymore. Anyhoo, if the ethanol is used to make that 87-90 etc. octane rating happen then you're definitely gonna lower it by water separation.If all that did'nt confuse you it certainly did me.
I think charcoal is one method used for drying ethanol.
Jdub

 

[TK]

Ouch! I love it when I drain tanks that look like that and they swear the gas is fresh, just got it yesterday! Which may be the case, but when there's 6 month old gas in the bottom of the can and you put fresh on top.....





One thing I don't understand about the gasohol is this, and hopefully somebody can clarify it - If I'm not mistaken, ethanol is about 120octane, right? So with 10% ethanol in the fuel, in order to achieve the desired 87, 89, etc. octane rating, it then gets mixed with gasoline that is far less than 87, 89, etc.?? Or does the octane of the ethanol not affect the octane of the gasoline and the average in the mix?
That would make sense to me that it did, and if you drain off whatever water/eth combination is in there, you're left with a way low octane gasoline still mixed with whatever ethanol that hasn't seperated yet. I should take the time to look into it, just haven't.

 

[Edge & Engine]

Ouch! I love it when I drain tanks that look like that and they swear the gas is fresh, just got it yesterday! Which may be the case, but when there's 6 month old gas in the bottom of the can and you put fresh on top.....





One thing I don't understand about the gasohol is this, and hopefully somebody can clarify it - If I'm not mistaken, ethanol is about 120octane, right? So with 10% ethanol in the fuel, in order to achieve the desired 87, 89, etc. octane rating, it then gets mixed with gasoline that is far less than 87, 89, etc.?? Or does the octane of the ethanol not affect the octane of the gasoline and the average in the mix?
That would make sense to me that it did, and if you drain off whatever water/eth combination is in there, you're left with a way low octane gasoline still mixed with whatever ethanol that hasn't seperated yet. I should take the time to look into it, just haven't.

Or it goes like this:
Does it have fresh gas? Customer: Yes, just filled it up yesterday. From your gas can? Customer: Yes. When did you fill your gas can? Customer: Oh, I don't know...I can't remember *gets sheepish look*

 

[Carl Anderson]

Funny how these threads always veer off towards a condemnation of government policy and our society.

For those of you that posted in that vein, what steps (other than complaining on this forum) have you taken to bring about a change in the policies you abhor? You live in a democratic republic, rather than complaining try becoming involved to make this country a better place.

Remember, you elect the individuals who make the rules....

You are right and I for one do vote and try to stay up on which candidates stand for what. Here are the problems (for starters):

1. They lie, each and every one of them. You vote for them based on what they say they will or will not do but they never live up to their word.
2. There aren't any good candidates out there anymore. We end up replacing crap with crap.
3. No decent, honest, hard working American can get elected to any significant office because it costs too much to run a campaign. So to get funded they all take part in the corruption, back room deals and are bought and paid for by someone before they even take office.
4. No politicians care about America, they only care about getting re-elected which means pandering to the special interests and lobyists, not doing what is best for the country.
5. Politicians don't do what their constituants want. Instead they do what they want because they don't care what we want and/or they think they are smarter than us so we need them to think for us. No thanks, I am smarter than 99% of every politician out there and so are most of the people on this site.

The solution? Blow it all up and start over from the Constitution and go from there with real campaign reform and a lot less benefits for elected officials. Bring it back to a job people do because they want to serve their country, not because it's a high paying gig with the best benefits imaginable for life.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread but I just had to say it.

 

[J.W Younger]

It needed to be said.
Course it'll probabley get it moved.

 

[WoodChuck'r]

VP fuel. D12

 

[sachsmo]

If ya can't beat 'em join 'em,

 

[BloodOnTheIce]

VP fuel. D12

Avgas

Both would prevent ethanol related problems, but I have to advise
customers with a solution that is both economically feasible, and easily
accessible.

Our dealership services everything from weedwackers, up to 30hp commercial zero turns.
And neither one of those answers, is a reasonable solution for anyone but
the enthusiast market that we have here on A/S.

I'd love to tell a women with a push mower to drive to the airport, (30 minutes away)
and attempt to buy avation fuel with a straight face. Or have the balls to
a commercial tree service to order 55 gallon drum of 100+ octane race fuel, to run
in their saws.

 

[WoodChuck'r]

I go for a nice cruise to Waterloo here in NY and fill up on 5 gallons of the D12.

I dunn mind spending the time and the money to get the fuel cuz it's a hobby (like you already said). I feel good about running the best fuel through my saws.


But yeah, the average customer in your store you probably punch you in the face if you said "Look just drive to Waterloo and spend $9.00 per gallon on some fuel that doesn't do this. You're also gonna need to spend $18 on a pint of Klotz two stoke oil. Good luck."

 

[PB]

How much does moto-mix go for? Can you get it in quantities larger than a quart? Do saws need to be retuned when running it?

I am tired of the VP SEF94 because of tuning issues and would switch to something else if I didn't have to buy it a quart at a time.

 

[Guido Salvage]

3. No decent, honest, hard working American can get elected to any significant office because it costs too much to run a campaign. So to get funded they all take part in the corruption, back room deals and are bought and paid for by someone before they even take office.

Ross Perot could have been the exception if only his execution had been better...

 

[BloodOnTheIce]

How much does moto-mix go for? Can you get it in quantities larger than a quart? Do saws need to be retuned when running it?

I am tired of the VP SEF94 because of tuning issues and would switch to something else if I didn't have to buy it a quart at a time.

Right now it's only available in quarts, 8$ a can is the price for it.
Just like other canned fuel you have to tune leaner than, running E10 fuel.
Tuning with the canned fuel is is usually pretty to close to factory suggested settings.

I've never run the VP SEF94, just curious what tuning issues you had?

 

[PB]

Right now it's only available in quarts, 8$ a can is the price for it.
Just like other canned fuel you have to tune leaner than, running E10 fuel.
Tuning with the canned fuel is is usually pretty to close to factory suggested settings.

I've never run the VP SEF94, just curious what tuning issues you had?

I had to lean it out initially, which was fine, but as the fuel aged it would run more and more rich. I am not sure why this is happening, but it was mentioned at the GTG that the fuel might be evaporating out of the carb leaving more oil. Every time I run my saw, it needs to be re-tuned. It is not just one saw, but 3 or 4 that get used semi regularly. I don't know what it is, but I am less and less impressed with it the older it is. The 2 year shelf life may be true, but it seems to cause the saws to run differently depending on the age.

 

[jimdad07]

I go for a nice cruise to Waterloo here in NY and fill up on 5 gallons of the D12.

I dunn mind spending the time and the money to get the fuel cuz it's a hobby (like you already said). I feel good about running the best fuel through my saws.


But yeah, the average customer in your store you probably punch you in the face if you said "Look just drive to Waterloo and spend $9.00 per gallon on some fuel that doesn't do this. You're also gonna need to spend $18 on a pint of Klotz two stoke oil. Good luck."

What kind of shelf life are you getting with that D12? I think that maybe Pulaski sells that as well, I might be wrong.

 

[MEATSAW]

So as the gas gets older does that mean that it makes the engine run leaner or richer?

I'll admit that I haven't got fresh gas in a while. And I noticed my saw started to run like crap and that I had to lean it out a bit to get it to run right. Then today my weedeater was running like crap too. It was running way rich and unfortunately it didn't have an adjustable carb. The only thing I can think that'c common between the two is the gas. But everything I've read here has made me think that old gas would make the engine run leaner, not richer.

In the end, what matters is I need to make up a fresh gallon of mix!