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Look at the oil ratings on whichever brand. You want synthetic, with an FD rating, designed for air cooled two strokes, not outboards. Then mix it anyplace you want between 40-50 to 1, your choice, doesn't seem to matter a whit there. Use the best freshest non ethanol gas you can find.

After that it gets into voodoo and one person's anecdotal against another, with everyone swearing by and swearing at whatever brand/ratio/color/perceived infitesmal power difference/ etc is being dis-cussed and cussed out any particular day.
 
My boss has a concrete saw I think husqvarna/partner k757 I've said this before on another thread but it is interesting so bear with me. He doesn't visit AS and he doesn't care what kind of oil gets put in that thing. He gets it on the in at any gas station that has it. This thing cuts a lot of concrete! Long and hard and HOT cutting out curb or what have you. Runs good and strong bu I can't say it runs like brand new because it never gets serviced. We dusted out the breather one day because it had no throttle response and was low on power, and we got the curb cut out. Just because it works for this rank bad a$$ cutoff saw doesn't mean that I would put that mix in my saws. It wouldn't hurt a thing I'm sure but my ways are set wih the ultra and that's what I want. I've seen it completely clean up a bad carbond up piston skirt over a little over 3 hard weedeating sessions on a hand me down homelite. I'm sold on the stuf. It's all high dollar if you ask me and I haven't seen any major difference in the prices for the small 1 gallon mix jugs. I guess it's just a piece of mind thing when your in a long cut knowing you have some insurance that you have one of he best.
 
Synthetic will clean up your carbon issues. That is not just ad hype. The bottom line is use what you want, but for my money it will be the synthetic because it is just plainly a superior product.
 
Synthetic will clean up your carbon issues. That is not just ad hype.

But using regular Stihl HP at 50:1, good fuel, properly tuned, I don't have any carbon issues??
I've never even fouled a plug in well over 20 years... pretty sure my 20 year old leaf blower and weed whip still have the original plugs in them.
 
But using regular Stihl HP at 50:1, good fuel, properly tuned, I don't have any carbon issues??
I've never even fouled a plug in well over 20 years... pretty sure my 20 year old leaf blower and weed whip still have the original plugs in them.

--fairly useful if you score a lot of used gear and get them running. I've seen some nasty top ends on some used saws I have gotten and they clean up nice running a few tanks with syn oil mix through them.
 
OK, that’s an actual observed tangible and specific reason to use synthetic oil, sort’a “special purpose” though. In these types of threads I’ve often said I believed there were “special purpose” applications where synthetic oils offered certain advantages… although I was usually referring to crankcase oils, transmission oils, hydraulics and such.

So I acquire a used two-cycle that’s been run too rich, or with too much oil and all carbon/gummed up, and run a “first” container of synthetic pre-mix through it to clean it up… why shouldn’t I switch back to regular HP that I’ve never had any issues with, what’s my advantage to continue using synthetic after that?

And I’m not trying to tell anyone what to use for oil… A guy has to do what he’s comfortable with, after all, I do. I just wanna’ know what, if anything, I’m actually gaining for the extra buck (not advertizing claims, actual experience). Again, why should I fix what ain’t broke?
 
I run synthetic oil in my vehicles so I have no problem paying a premium to have a cleaner engine. But I only go through 5 or 10 gallons of mix a year. The guys that go through that much in a day or two might not think the price difference is worth it.
 
After using synthetic to clean an engine why keep using it? If its that good why wouldn't you want to keep using it? Because it costs .50 cents more than the other stuff? Myabe think of it as preventive maintenance, it keeps not just the carbon at bay, if it does a good job at cleaning piston skirts than it Probly keeps the carb and everything else nice and clean also. Thats just my reconin though. :)
 
Why would anybody want to take the carbon off of yer piston dome and combustyon chamber, that's just extree compression going out thee muffler? It's like bathing with soap. Crazy talk!
 
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
Saber™ Professional Synthetic 100:1 Pre-Mix 2-Cycle Oil (ATP)
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
13.5
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
99
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
136
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)
-36 (-33)
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92)
114 (237)
Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92)
114 (237)
DANGER: harmful or fatal if swallowed. Contains synthetic lubricant and petroleum distillates. If swallowed do not induce vomiting. Contact a physician immediately. Keep away from fire, heat and open flame. Use with adequate ventilation. Avoid frequent or prolonged skin contact. Flush eyes with water for 15 minutes in case of contact. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.
 
I'm sure the same "why change, it ain't broke" arguments were had when some fool actually made a specific 2 stroke oil. I'm not buying that expensive junk; just add 8 ounces of 30wt into a gallon. lol...

One area where syntheticic wins over regular oil is carbon. Some carbon I care about is on the valves on 4-mix engines, and now and then BEHIND the rings of 2 strokers.

I've been inside more engines than I care to remember- it's really obvious who has been running synthetic. "Which" synthetic is much more subjective, unless it's the brand that make wild claims on mix ratios ;)
 
I'm sure the same "why change, it ain't broke" arguments were had when some fool actually made a specific 2 stroke oil. I'm not buying that expensive junk; just add 8 ounces of 30wt into a gallon. lol...

One area where syntheticic wins over regular oil is carbon. Some carbon I care about is on the valves on 4-mix engines, and now and then BEHIND the rings of 2 strokers.

I've been inside more engines than I care to remember- it's really obvious who has been running synthetic. "Which" synthetic is much more subjective, unless it's the brand that make wild claims on mix ratios ;)

Do you see seizures with cheap petroleum base oils? Does the synthetic hold up to heat better or is it all about cleaner ?
 
Fedaburger,
I understand that thinking, I guess… but it’s not how I think.
I don’t automatically think that “slipperier” is necessarily better; it only needs to be slippery enough.
I don’t automatically think that “cleaner” is necessarily better; it only needs to be clean enough.
I don’t automatically think that “cooler” is necessarily better; it only needs to be cool enough.
And-so-on…

I’ve had my current saw for something over 20 years now and it’s never seen anything but the regular ol’ Stihl dino oil in the 50:1 pre-mix (first few years it was 40:1 until Stihl changed). I use 12-15 of the orange (2.5 gallon) bottles a year, so around 30-35 gallons of pre-mix, most of which gets run through the saw (although, admittedly there was about five years where I didn’t use the saw much). I’ve never had the carb off it, never replaced a fuel line, never replace a fuel filter, and I’ve only replaced the spark plug maybe three, possibly four times (on principle only, I’ve kept the old plugs as spares because they still looked fine). Compression feels strong when pulling it over, always starts, idles and runs perfectly (occasional carb adjustment for ambient changes). I take the muffler off maybe every two years or so to have a gander at the piston, rings and cylinder walls… ain’t no problems and ain’t no carbon of any consequence. Even the inside of the muffler has never required any attention… heck, I don’t remember ever cleaning the spark arrester screen.

Hey, I’m not attempting to extend an argument here… just convince me why I should spend the extra buck to fix what ain’t broke.
 
Fedaburger,
I understand that thinking, I guess… but it’s not how I think.
I don’t automatically think that “slipperier” is necessarily better; it only needs to be slippery enough.
I don’t automatically think that “cleaner” is necessarily better; it only needs to be clean enough.
I don’t automatically think that “cooler” is necessarily better; it only needs to be cool enough.
And-so-on…

I’ve had my current saw for something over 20 years now and it’s never seen anything but the regular ol’ Stihl dino oil in the 50:1 pre-mix (first few years it was 40:1 until Stihl changed). I use 12-15 of the orange (2.5 gallon) bottles a year, so around 30-35 gallons of pre-mix, most of which gets run through the saw (although, admittedly there was about five years where I didn’t use the saw much). I’ve never had the carb off it, never replaced a fuel line, never replace a fuel filter, and I’ve only replaced the spark plug maybe three, possibly four times (on principle only, I’ve kept the old plugs as spares because they still looked fine). Compression feels strong when pulling it over, always starts, idles and runs perfectly (occasional carb adjustment for ambient changes). I take the muffler off maybe every two years or so to have a gander at the piston, rings and cylinder walls… ain’t no problems and ain’t no carbon of any consequence. Even the inside of the muffler has never required any attention… heck, I don’t remember ever cleaning the spark arrester screen.

Hey, I’m not attempting to extend an argument here… just convince me why I should spend the extra buck to fix what ain’t broke.

I think you are good to go if it aint broke dont fix it! But if you have any fourmix motors they say it helps with them with the carbon.
 
Do you see seizures with cheap petroleum base oils? Does the synthetic hold up to heat better or is it all about cleaner ?


I've seen burned motors with all oils... but believe the synthetic provides an extra margin of safety (like for "old" gas, or for the guys that insist on running the saw out of gas while at full power). Also, you have less issues with phase separation when used with ethanol gas. Cleaner is good; carbon is very abrasive, and it doesn't just sit nicely on top of the pistion/chamber.

if you are a careful homeowner with 30 hours a year of cutting, it won't matter much. If you are a pro it might extend the life of your saw significantly. If you mill logs... use synthetic...
 
You'll never hear arguments out of me Mr.Whitespider.:) If it ever does sound like I'm argumentive then it's just how I'm wording things I don't meen to be. My first saw the (wood shark) died on me with little hours because of my lack of knowledge for carb tuning. It left me in a bad situation because I needed firewood. Thank god for good friends they're hard to come by, we got some wood. And my next purchase was the ms180 new with the warranty deal for a six pack of ultra. Thats the only reason I use the ultra. I'm just scared of smoking another saw that's why I have three runners now just in case. I did us the regular hp before my new purchase in my weedeater. I know your saws will continue to give you good service with the hp oil because thousands of saws still run it. I'm just a big fan. Keep em screaming guys wide open!!!
:rock:
 
I've seen burned motors with all oils... but believe the synthetic provides an extra margin of safety (like for "old" gas, or for the guys that insist on running the saw out of gas while at full power). Also, you have less issues with phase separation when used with ethanol gas. Cleaner is good; carbon is very abrasive, and it doesn't just sit nicely on top of the pistion/chamber.

if you are a careful homeowner with 30 hours a year of cutting, it won't matter much. If you are a pro it might extend the life of your saw significantly. If you mill logs... use synthetic...

That is what I suspected.
 
I ran regular orange bottle for 25+ years and then switched to Ultra Synthetic due to our commercial use of saws and ethanol gas. I've had several saws apart and there is less carbon with Ultra. I'm convinced Synthetic Ultra is the only mix to run, during peak season we'll run 5+ gallons a week.
 
Hmmmmm……. Ethanol blended fuel?? Now that could be a convincing argument, but I don’t know. I guess, if synthetic oils are all they claim to be, they could possibly offer some added protection with ethanol… under certain specific conditions. Don’t believe they could be a “fix-all” to ethanol related problems, but maybe, just maybe under the right circumstances…..?? That may be worth a little investigation.

No matter to me though… I don’t use Ethanol blended fuel in anything. :msp_w00t:


I'm sure the same "why change, it ain't broke" arguments were had when some fool actually made a specific 2 stroke oil. I'm not buying that expensive junk; just add 8 ounces of 30wt into a gallon. lol...
Oh, I know there was such people… growing up I remember older relatives with that attitude. But I’ll take the other side on that one and say they were dead wrong. Before “specific 2 stroke oil” small engine RPM was limited to 5000, maybe 6000 tops… within a few short years after “specific 2 stroke oil” engine performance had more than doubled. That can’t be said for synthetics, after more than a decade of affordable, readily available synthetic oils, small engine performance has remained virtually the same. Yes, there have been gains in power-to-weight ratio, but that can’t be attributed to synthetic oils in any way, shape or form. Your high performance saw engine or outboard boat motor won’t last 10 minutes using 30w as pre-mix (well, maybe it would for 10 minutes, not 12)… but it doesn’t require synthetic oil to keep running past 10 minutes either.
 
Hmmmmm……. Ethanol blended fuel?? Now that could be a convincing argument, but I don’t know. I guess, if synthetic oils are all they claim to be, they could possibly offer some added protection with ethanol… under certain specific conditions. Don’t believe they could be a “fix-all” to ethanol related problems, but maybe, just maybe under the right circumstances…..?? That may be worth a little investigation.

No matter to me though… I don’t use Ethanol blended fuel in anything. :msp_w00t:



Oh, I know there was such people… growing up I remember older relatives with that attitude. But I’ll take the other side on that one and say they were dead wrong. Before “specific 2 stroke oil” small engine RPM was limited to 5000, maybe 6000 tops… within a few short years after “specific 2 stroke oil” engine performance had more than doubled. That can’t be said for synthetics, after more than a decade of affordable, readily available synthetic oils, small engine performance has remained virtually the same. Yes, there have been gains in power-to-weight ratio, but that can’t be attributed to synthetic oils in any way, shape or form. Your high performance saw engine or outboard boat motor won’t last 10 minutes using 30w as pre-mix (well, maybe it would for 10 minutes, not 12)… but it doesn’t require synthetic oil to keep running past 10 minutes either.

Worked in a xl12 I still have carpal tunnel to prove it!:hmm3grin2orange:
 
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