Grinding down depth rakers. Bad idea?

[Lonedrake]

I have been cutting some for about a year now. I am clearing/thinning about 10 acres. Mix of red oak,popple and black beech. Many of the red oak are dead/dying from oak wilt...some up to 30 inches.

I purchased a 455 Rancher and have since put on a 20 inch bar.

Anyways...wasn't cutting as good when the chain was new. Rakers are a pain to me to file so I got the grinder out and took them all off. I was curious to see how it would cut...and a little nervous about kickback. But...it nows cuts through 20 inch red oak like a dream.

So my question is....other than kickback what other problems can this cause?


It cuts so good when I wear this chain out(almost there) I am thinking of grinding off the rakers from the get go.

 

[Teddy.Scout]

The deeper (lower the raker) the more force on the chain!

I take then down a touch, but too much, you end up just bogging the saw!

 

[wigglesworth]

:monkey:


Hey Matt!!

 

[dingeryote]

All the way down?

Get a Carlton File o plate, or the Husqvarna roller doodad and use it.
Only takes a couple Minuites every 3-4 filings, and your saw will cut faster than without the Rakers.

All you're doing is stressing the living crap out of the Saw and cutters, while increasing the chances of unintentional decorative body modification.

The 455 isn't much for grunt to begin with when wearing a 20" Bar, so keep an eyeball on the clutch while running that suicide chain...it's likely to fall off still attached to part of the crank.

A distant cousin of mine got to thinking just as you have, and did the same thing with his old 10-10 back in the day. One day he was limbing out an Oak top and back barred a good sized limb, the chain grabbed, and he's still sleeping with his four front teeth in a Glass.


To each thier own, but you asked, and it's better to ask than to explain why folks call ya "Stumpy".

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[Teddy.Scout]

:monkey:


Hey Matt!!

WHAT! LOL!
I think!!!!, I said it right?
Kinda simple and to the point.
Was I that off?

Dingeryote hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am just tired and setting here bottle feeding a young lady that is a proud owner of a ms200T, the bride said she isn't allowed 2-cycle till she is 5? man that blows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She didn't say anything about those mini Bashlin hooks I got!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!

 

[wigglesworth]

WHAT! LOL!
I think!!!!, I said it right?
Kinda simple and to the point.
Was I that off?

Dingeryote hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am just tired and setting here bottle feeding a young lady that is a proud owner of a ms200T, the bride said she isn't allowed 2-cycle till she is 5? man that blows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She didn't say anything about those mini Bashlin hooks I got!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!

ROFL,

na, I was eyerollin the OP and his ridiclous post. 200T huh? I would think that would be too small of a saw for one of your offspring. You seem to like them Big'uns.

 

[arborjockey]

If your cutting dry oak taking the rakers off :jawdrop:well set your camera up while you cut so the rest of us canopcorn:. For the last year how were you sharpening your chain and rakers?:monkey:

 

[Teddy.Scout]

ROFL,

na, I was eyerollin the OP and his ridiclous post. 200T huh? I would think that would be too small of a saw for one of your offspring. You seem to like them Big'uns.

YA! The OP (original poster) I just learned that my self LOL!!!
Has a good crasp!

I don't want her to have my back problems!!!!
Plus I am getting a sore chest from my afternoon climbs!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think with the wifes brains she will make a good climber! (small and nimble like her parents!!!)

 

[dingeryote]

WHAT! LOL!
I think!!!!, I said it right?
Kinda simple and to the point.
Was I that off?

Dingeryote hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am just tired and setting here bottle feeding a young lady that is a proud owner of a ms200T, the bride said she isn't allowed 2-cycle till she is 5? man that blows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She didn't say anything about those mini Bashlin hooks I got!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!

5?
That's awfull old to be just starting. Maybe that Hotrod Dolmar 4 cycle will be out next year and you and the young lass can out Lawyer Mom.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[Teddy.Scout]

Let's get it right now guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MOMS IN CHARGE!!!

SHHH!!! mom don't know about the kms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ross_scott]

The rakers/depth gauges are there for a reason they not only control how much wood the chain can bite into but they also guide the teeth into the wood (Hence the curve at the front of a raker) to reduce stress on the chain as well as damage to the teeth (this part has already been pointed out by other posters) plus they also reduce the risk of kickback. like others have said go get a file-o-plate and use that to adjust your rakers. Please do us all a big favour go get a new chain and replace the one you have put into a dangerous state. Imagine your teeth going around at 13500RPM and getting whacked into something hard with nothing infront to guide them up and onto that object...that's how it is for the teeth on your saw after removing the rakers they is gonna break and chip.

 

[MCW]

I have been cutting some for about a year now. I am clearing/thinning about 10 acres. Mix of red oak,popple and black beech. Many of the red oak are dead/dying from oak wilt...some up to 30 inches.

I purchased a 455 Rancher and have since put on a 20 inch bar.

Anyways...wasn't cutting as good when the chain was new. Rakers are a pain to me to file so I got the grinder out and took them all off. I was curious to see how it would cut...and a little nervous about kickback. But...it nows cuts through 20 inch red oak like a dream.

So my question is....other than kickback what other problems can this cause?


It cuts so good when I wear this chain out(almost there) I am thinking of grinding off the rakers from the get go.

I ground the rakers off an old but resharpened chain once for the hell of it and it wouldn't cut at all. The chain will just dig in, stall, bounce, skip etc. Not only was it useless and a handful, it was dangerous. In fact I'm more than happy to do it again on an old chain and get a video.
Chains are not designed to run this way and if anybody thinks they can improve on a factory chain by removing basically 50% of a cutter's design features they are wrong.
When I ground them off I didn't understand what they were there for or how a chain worked. This was a long time ago and I thought I knew more about chain design and function than the manufacturers - I was wrong
If you think you need to do this to a chain to get it to cut then you must have an issue somewhere on how you're sharpening a chain to start with.

Also are you sure you are grinding the whole raker off and not just part of them like on guard link or bumper link chain?

 

[ronT2]

A distant cousin of mine got to thinking just as you have, and did the same thing with his old 10-10 back in the day. One day he was limbing out an Oak top and back barred a good sized limb, the chain grabbed, and he's still sleeping with his four front teeth in a Glass.

I just might have to use that in my sig.

 

[ShoerFast]

I have been cutting some for about a year now. I am clearing/thinning about 10 acres. Mix of red oak,popple and black beech. Many of the red oak are dead/dying from oak wilt...some up to 30 inches.

I purchased a 455 Rancher and have since put on a 20 inch bar.

Anyways...wasn't cutting as good when the chain was new. Rakers are a pain to me to file so I got the grinder out and took them all off. I was curious to see how it would cut...and a little nervous about kickback. But...it nows cuts through 20 inch red oak like a dream.

So my question is....other than kickback what other problems can this cause?


It cuts so good when I wear this chain out(almost there) I am thinking of grinding off the rakers from the get go.

Welcome to the site!

I am originally from just south of you, Watertown~Delano area.

As for the depth-gauges/rakers, picture trying to plow with-out anything holding or keeping the plow from digging too far into the dirt?

The DG (raker) sets how thick of a cut or chip the cutter will take. There is a ton of information if you use the search function, but in a nut shell, you only want to take off a little of the DG as your chain cutters get shorter over it's lifetime of sharpening.

 

[bartlanz]

hmmm... some good info here, I've thought and wondered about this, but being that every chain I have EVER seen had rakers, and I valued my... albeit so so... facial features, I just take em down a tad...

 

[Lonedrake]

I appreciate the constructive answers.

I have been sharpening with a hand file(on a guide) and a flat file on the rakers. I like to give each cutter a lick or two between fills. Not so often on the rakers.

Maybe I have my info wrong but I thought in years past the chain was sold without rakers(or at least minimal)?

I understand that by increasing the bite I am decreasing safety.

 

[demographic]

I appreciate the constructive answers.

I have been sharpening with a hand file(on a guide) and a flat file on the rakers. I like to give each cutter a lick or two between fills. Not so often on the rakers.

Maybe I have my info wrong but I thought in years past the chain was sold without rakers(or at least minimal)?

I understand that by increasing the bite I am decreasing safety.

I put a copy of the Carlton chain sharpening PDF file on HERE which I feel if very informative.
Well worth downloading and printing off to read at your leisure.

Regards Scott.

 

[striperswaper]

drake,
after reading what others have said I hope you buy a new chain and never use that rakerless creation!

 

[BigE]

It sounds to me like drake cut off the anti-kickback feature, not the actual rakers. I've done the same on one of my chains, and it now cuts almost as good as RSC.

-Steve

 

[Wolfcsm]

I tried two passes with a 10 inch flat bastard file every 3 sharpenings. Works great. I get that self feeding feeling back in the chain.

Hal