Growing Organic Fruit and Nut Trees from Bareroot Stock

[Run Forrest Run]

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Hello All,

I am a newbie to the board and to the growing / nursery business. (My background for the business is basically being a dang good gardener and a decent business owner (non-growing related business) looking to move up into a “growing” business.)

I have 40 acres in northwest Arkansas and I want to specialize in “food” trees, i.e., trees that bear fruit and nuts, organically grown in containers on my land.

I came to the decision while hearing from others who took the UofA master gardeners certification this past go 'round who were interested in turning a profit from their work and that got the old wheels turning for me as far as what I could do viably.

(And since I don’t have the soil or the chutzpah to fight it out every week with those other dang good gardeners at the local farmer’s markets with their garden produce – but yet - I do want to make money and grow something that is important to me – and my heart and talents lay with “food” trees; so I have made my decision.)

My plan is simple, (sell’em for more than I got in them), by buying quality bareroot seedling stock and growing it up into profitable trees. (Easy enough, however, the devil always seems to be in the details between point a and point b – that’s why I’m reaching out to y’all.)

So I am open to Any and All advice about starting up. (From the do’s and do not do’s to the nuts and bolt of making this endeavor profitable from a growers stand point – as I think I have the legal and taxes down pat at this point.)

Thanks in advance,

“Run Forrest Run”

(And I would especially love to hear from any and all growers / nursery owners in north west Arkansas with help, advice, ideas, tips or whatever.)

 

[dakota]

Not much advice to offer, but one thing did stand out in your plan - Is it really viable to expect container plants to produce enough fruit to be profitable in the long run? Personally, I don't know for sure. But I'm skeptical. What would it take to have the surrounding soil certified organic so the plants could be planted?

 

[Run Forrest Run]

Whoops

Hi Dakota!!! Thanks for the reply.

My soil is already cert as well as grow methods.

I think I wasn't exactly clear as far as explaining my goal - goal is to "grow-up" the stock, (like Stark Bros.), not the fruit or nut produce - that will come from / with whoever plants the tree in the ground after it is purchased from me - very viable - my twist is to grow organic stock, (unlike the Stark Bros.), it is a very common practice to do this in containers - just not the organic part. (I grew up between Stark Bros. and Forrest Keeling watching them do it every day.)

Best.

 

[windthrown]

Growing up trees...

Several ideas come to mind reading your post. One thing you can do is propogate your own root stock and graft your own trees instead of buying grafted baby trees. Another is that you can grow non-grafted trees on their own root stock form cuttings. Most root stock today is used for dwarfing and disease resistance. But they are not really needed for full size trees. Here in Oregon there is another option of buying bare root baby trees and potting them up and putting on size. These are mainly forestry trees for the timber industry though, and not fruit trees. However, I buy vine maples and dogwood trees this way for really cheap (50 cents each in volume).

Here in Oregon there are many many companies that grow root stock trees and graft them up. A lot of trees in the US are grown here in Oregon. There are hundreds of tree fields between Salem and Protland in northern Oregon. They are lifted in winter and sold as bare root, or put in containers.

A final issue is where is your market to make your profit from? I have found selling nursery stock rather difficult here. We live in a remote area. There are several wholesale nurseries around here that supply all the retail outlets. The nurseries were not interested in my stock when I called around looking to sell my trees. I have Japanese maples, 5 types of western willows, alders, vine maples, redwoods, and bamboos. Bamboo I can sell directly. I have maybe 20 types now. I do not have a market for my other trees though. Oregon also requires a nursery license, and the fees vary on the amount of money you gross form sales.

 

[Run Forrest Run]

Hello windthrown, thank you for your excellent insights and helpful reply.

I think I will mainly go the direct retail route at this point and capitalize on the quality of my stock as well as my organic stock and grow methods. (I am and will pot bare root baby trees and propagate my own stock.)

Fortunately, financially, I am in a position where I have time on my side and can garner customers by ones and twos, building my up business very gradually at this point, letting my stock grow in the meantime.

There are no wholesalers of nursery stock, (or supplies), anywhere near me – particularly ones that deal in fruit or nut trees and very few retail nurseries.

So I have not investigated the wholesale side thoroughly yet as I am not really interested or large enough to sell stock wholesale. (Maybe as my nursery and reputation grow I will consider it.)

In Arkansas, where I’m located, (and regionally), the nursery business is a much, much less organized and established business arena than what you describe in Oregon. (More opportunities due to fewer growers, a great deal less competition, less variety, more open to newbies.)

Licenses here are very reasonable and are based on nursery size in terms of overall land used for growing, however, there is a “hobby / backyard” type license for $75.00 for those who have a small set-up, (maybe up to 500’ x 500’ of growing area give or take) and sell only to the public – those growers - particularly ones that deal with landscape plants and flowers / basket plants - seem to do anywhere from o.k. to pretty well. I think the next size is 1-3 acres of growing area, (it is a “Full / Regular” license and is $150.00) – so you can see it’s a whole different ballgame here.

Best of luck with what you are doing!!! As an aside, (and somewhat off-topic), I am very curious about your Bamboo. I have it and want to propagate it for food use. So I would like to hear all about what you are doing with Bamboo!!!

Best,

- David

“Run Forrest Run”

 

[windthrown]

Bamboo

Yah, this area has a high volume of commercial nursery plants of all types. Iris and tulip bulbs are big here, as are fruit and ornamental trees, berries, commercial forest trees, farm crop seed, grass seed, basic and specialty nursery stock. Oregon exports a large amount of plant material all over the US. There are huge nationally advertized commercial nerseries down to mom and pop operations. I am on the mom and pop scale here. I have sold a lot of orchids direct on Ebay, and sold a lot of seed garlic lately, as well as some bamboos and plant stock at 'insider' horticulture events. I do not have a store or public nursery. I would sell plants at farmer's markets, but the ones here are hard to get into to sell at and are 'politically' controlled.

I got a certificate in ornamental horticulture about 20 years ago before I went back to get my engibneering degree and work as a computer designer for 15 years. Now I am back to growing plants again... I got into bamboo after I was laid off and living with my brother for a while up in Hilsboro, Oregon (near Portland). Bamboo is funny. People either love it or they hate it. My mom grew it in our yard when we were kids. There are a few huge bamboo plant places in Oregon, California and Washington state.

I have a lot of bamboo now from several sources. This property has three very large stands of bamboo that the previous owners planted over 15 years ago. Black timber and two golden types. I also got a lot from a friend that had her yard relandscaped in Carmel, CA. She is babysitting my cymbidium orchid collection (too cold here for them here) and offered me all the bamboo in her yard that she was tearing out. So we filled my truck with bamboos last year and that started my collection. She had Arrow, varigated arrow, two types of golden, several types I have yet to ID, and vivax giant bamboo. I then traded some of those types to my brother for some others (he has 30 or more rare types). I also got a bunch more this summer when a couple in Eugene, OR posted a note on Craigslist saying that they wanted all their bamboo removed from they yeard. I expected trashy types, but we stopped by and they had 3 types of very rare giant bamboos and a lot of types I had never seen before. So out came the shovels and into my truck they went...

Bamboos have some great attributes that are good for this area. Most (but not all) are fairly cold tolerant, and survive well in Oregon. They are also deer-proof. Deer have no interest in eating them, nor do elk. We have both here, and they eat just about anything else outside the deer fenced areas that I have here. They are also evergreen. Outside of the conifers here, they are the only thing that is green in winter. They also make good screening plants, and they grow pretty fast. I also like them as plants, and they are fairly easy to grow. They really do not need much more than watering and repotting every few years. I feed them every now and then.

A most curious and interesting thing about bamboo that I have found is that they are currency in the nursery trade around here. Plant hounds and nursery people are always interested in trading plants for bamboos at plant shows and sales. If I ask sellers if they are interested in trades, they yawn and ask what I have. I say bamboo, and their eyebrows go up. They ask for types and size. I name a few and point to a plant the same size at the sale. Suddenly they are out of their chair and very interested... and I wind up with some pricey plants in trade or some cash in a deal. The prices for bamboos here at are really outragous. $100 for a 3 to 5 gallon pot sized common type is not an uncommon price. Rare types are easilly 3x that.

Anyway, I planted a lot here for landscaping my girlfriend's house/yard, and I have a lot in pots and in the ground that I can dig up to sell or trade. Most types are edible, but they are far more valuable not to eat them

 

[Run Forrest Run]

Thank You windthrown (re: bamboo)

I have 3 large stands (maybe an acre total) of Bamboo myself and found everything you say to be true about them. I propagate them by culm division and harvest the running shoots – seems to be an endless supply that doesn’t diminish the stand – in fact it will continue to increase without careful management.

However, I’ll have to disagree about the value of the plant vs. the value of the nutrition it provides.

My growing is dedicated to food plants / grasses / trees / edibles only, (must be the master gardener and nutritionist in me), so, though I feel there is nothing wrong with either approach, and both are certainly needed; as Bamboo and many of the most versatile woody grasses, plants, and trees can and do serve many duties, so my view is certainly biased towards Bamboo as a nutritious, abundant, almost self-renewing food source.

I also strongly believe that the cream always rises to the top, and it sounds like you have found a profitable, (in money and in plants), niche for yourself, so I would welcome the competition and the politics – it’s just part of the game – enjoy it and keep on keeping on.

Best,

- David

“Run Forrest Run”

 

[treeseer]

Espalier.

Train your trees into 2 dimensions and they will fit into any landscape.

 

[Run Forrest Run]

Thank you treeseer - I'm blown away!!!

Thank you for the reply. Though, I’m not sure I follow.

Would you elaborate please regarding organic fruit / nut trees container grown ultimately for produce? (If I follow - you would use the trellis / espalier method for design (very much a plus), and max produce per min. space (also comes in handy), this could be a great way to grow and market the trees – my question is can is be done / started in containers?)

Excellent idea – got the wheels turning and I’m looking forward to the reply!!!

Best,

- David

“Run Forrest Run”

 

[treeseer]

T use the trellis / espalier method for design (very much a plus), and max produce per min. space (also comes in handy), this could be a great way to grow and market the trees – my question is can is be done / started in containers?)

Definitely. Just have a big enough container to hold a saleable plant, including the trellis. I'm a beginner like you but I've seen enough espaliers to know it's doable.

http://www.henryleuthardtnurseries.com/main.htm

I have a 60' x 90' south-facing slope that I'm looking to plant on this fall. Looking to have a mix of vaccinium, figs, in the ground and pears and loropetalum espaliered in containers. looking for other fruit that can be grown without spraying in my part of zone 7.

o and re bamboo it's a crime to plant many kinds here--highly invasive and nearly ineradicable.

 

[Run Forrest Run]

Fantastic - Thank You treeseer!!!

Man that’s great. Excellent link and 1st class way to do this. Let’s stay in touch on this one.

I hate to gush but I really, really like your idea – it is something incredibly unique and definitely worthy of the attempt.

If nothing else it will create some great word of mouth for me – but I think it will also be very lucrative.

Thank you and best,

- David

“Run Forrest Run”

re: bamboo, it’s native “Canebreak” (Arundinaria giganteae) – and I inherited it with my land, thankfully I’ve been able to manage the stand well and market the shoots, (enough $ to make it worth my time by turning lemons into lemonade), but I’m always looking for a better way.

 

[treeseer]

Here the new trend is McMansions on postage-stamp lots. No room for 3-D trees, 2-D is the future for urban yards.

 

[Tree Machine]

I have to agree with treeseer, the value in the urban landscape (ie, the people with the money to buy your unique trees) want ornamentals that don't grow out of their ornamental status. Fruit trees can accomodate this very easily. Some early structural training will give the tree a 'personality' at the point of sale and you can get a better price on better-shaped trees.

The growing uniqueness of your farm could have public appeal. You mentioned you have time on your side, giving us the full impression that you're in it for the long run. You also have plenty of land. There are a number of ways to reach out to the public, or more importantly, how to get them to come to you, either online, or in person. This takes long-range planning and some bold marketing and implementation, but you could do very well, much better than your local competitors. You just have to not tap the channels that are theirs. You have to create your own channels.

 

[windthrown]

Espalier

You do not need a McMansion to want or need espalier. I had a house on a 6k sq ft lot in the bay area and not enough room to grow full size fruit trees, even dwarf ones. But I had spaces at the side of my house outside the kitchen about 2 ft wide between the sidewalk and the fence. So I bought some bare root semi-dward apples and pears and made 4 espaliers out of them. They never did all that great producing fruit, but they did grow and look nice next to the fence. When I sold that house the RE agents all went ga-ga over the espalier trees at the side of the house. I dunno if they helped sell the place or not, but I had an offer in 2 days after listing.

Supposedly in places like Israel all they plant is espalier orchards. Easy to manage with a tractor and pick the fruit. Higher yield of fruit per acre compared to standard trees. Not that hard to grow.

 

[Tree Machine]

Excellent example, Windthrown. The approaches that can be taken with trees are limitless. Woven stems on figs, super popular. Woven bamboo in pots, a lot of that is seen commercially. Bonsai. Pollards. Mini's. And on and on.

Diversity can be your strong suit, you're well on your way. With your existing bamboo stands and a few thousand interesting, unique and edible specimens, yours could be a veritable tree theme park.

You could maybe use that line within your written marketing, but the better approach is to establish yourself as an Arboretum and Nursery. Getting yourself listed as an Arboretum seperates you from the competition by light years. A lot of your marketing gets done automatically for you through tourism channels. By not having to spend time and resource on marketing and advertising, your efforts can be better spent doing what it is you do well, which is directing your project and working with people, volunteers, customers, etc. Free marketing and exposure, if it is what you want, is spontaneous and self-perpetuating and goes on auto-pilot, more or less. I'm talking solely about the tourism board, here.

The next wave of marketing comes in the form of alliances, which can also be free, but it pays to invest a little more in this area. Your alliances will be with other Arkansas attractions that are onboard the tourism train. A prudent strategy would be to visit these Arkansas attractions personally and meet the director/owners on their turf. Experience what it is they offer the public and in what ways they have found that spell success.

Dude, am I coming to bat for you, or what? We're building vacations into your marketing plan. You can expense the costs of these business visits through your corporation, using pre-tax dollars if what you're doing is truly business (and it is). Give the Attraction Owner a tree, you can expense the tree as cost, too, as well as sealing a relationship for a lifetime.

As an attraction yourself, make it your intent to support and endorse other attractions statewide. This is creating an alliance network on a rather large scale, but I see that your project can handle it. If you can keep visitors intrigued and interested for one hour, you have a public attraction. If you can keep them 'entertained' for three hours you're a 'theme park' could offer nourishment as an income center, mebbe get a license to serve wine and people could have romantical picnics out under the trees....

Sorry, I'm just dreamin. What a silly, silly thought.

Silly I tell you. Downright crazy.

heh, heh.

 

[Run Forrest Run]

Wow!!! (Again) Wow!!!

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I’m dumbfounded. (You guys rock!!!) That’s why I love this site and the people here.

This idea has a lot of merit, so I’ve been busy doing research and loving every minute of it – I will definitely be doing this on some scale – starting with this years growing stock.

I’m searching for self-pollinating dwarf fruit and nut trees currently and looking into what else will work while doing the homework on the methods I’ll need to implement everything. (And I wish y’all could see me grinning from ear to ear – I’m having too much fun and I really think it will be a blast to do this.) And any help for sources and methods would be much appreciated.

I think you both are right on track, (I can see the universal appeal windthrown and I believe it probably did help sell your place and more than likely your agent made it a point to highlight the trees to buyers), as far as tourism goes tree machine, it is not nearly as crazy as you think, ; ) more like crazy as a fox, the main income in the county and area I live in comes from tourism, (full disclosure – my property borders the Buffalo River National Park on two sides), I can walk to the river with my kayak and be in the water in 3 minutes tops.

My wife (I know) and the people (I’m sure) that are here would love to see an Arboretum particularly along these lines.

To give you an idea of where I’m at in relation to tourism; I can be seated for diner in Branson, Mo in about an hour depending on traffic, and within 90 minutes in three directions there are influxes of people, (and building booms), in Springfield, Mo, the Fayetteville / Rodgers area, and Mountain Home / Lakes area.

Here we have it all from the outdoorspeople,“foodies,” hippies, naturalists, tourists, retirees, and McMansions all within an area I can easily service or come to me.

(So yeah, I’m a little excited about this idea and all the different implications of it coming together to some degree.)

Lets keep this thread going or start another one just for Espalier and let’s all stay in touch on this one if y’all are game for it.

Best,

David

“Run Forrest Run”

 

[Tree Machine]

This is all very encouraging.

I’ve been busy doing research and loving every minute of it – I will definitely be doing this on some scale – starting with this years growing stock.

And starting with this year's business plan and the launching of the marketing campaign (all free so far, except travel and meetings).

I’m searching for self-pollinating dwarf fruit and nut trees currently and looking into what else will work while doing the homework on the methods I’ll need to implement everything. And any help for sources and methods would be much appreciated.

You're asking for all the right things. Sources and methods here in the Arboristsite NURSURY forum? We do that. Promoting tree awareness and propagation and the planting of thousands and thousands of trees??? Man, this one's a slam dunk.

I think you both are right on track

We think you're on track.

as far as tourism goes tree machine, it is not nearly as crazy as you think, the main income in the county and area I live in comes from tourism my property borders the Buffalo River National Park on two side. I can walk to the river with my kayak and be in the water in 3 minutes tops.

Since you have a perpetual water source, this is where we'll plant the Sequois and the giant redwoods and coastal cedar- 'course they're not really giant, they're in plastic tubes, 15 cm tall, but you can get these trees for dirt cheap. Plan to sell these 100-fold over today's price in 5-7 years. I'm not an investment guy, but those numbers would seem to work.[/QUOTE]

My wife (I know) and the people (I’m sure) that are here would love to see an Arboretum particularly along these lines.

There are 24 hundred kAzillion reasons why this project should succeed. Your passion is there. Your support is there. A setting only one could dream of in a climate that is temperate and ideal for hardwood trees and bamboo is there. Tourism is all around you. You just went from theme park to State Park.

To give you an idea of where I’m at in relation to tourism; I can be seated for diner in Branson, Mo in about an hour depending on traffic, and within 90 minutes in three directions there are influxes of people, (and building booms), in Springfield, Mo, the Fayetteville / Rodgers area, and Mountain Home / Lakes area.

Here we have it all from the outdoorspeople,“foodies,” hippies, naturalists, tourists, retirees, and McMansions

Double slam dunk.

If you want a triple slam dunk, tell me there is a cave somewhere close, across the Buffalo River.....

See, Forrest, Treeseer and I would both love to have our own Arboretums. We can't, so we're living vicariously through you. It's really quite selfish, on our parts.

I will definitely be doing this on some scale

Choose your scale. Personally, I would set the bar rather high. This is a better bet than a lottery ticket, and a much better bet than a 9-5 day job.

You're so on top of this in understanding it as a long-term plan. There is no hurrey, there is no rush. All there is is time to plan and time to implement. It's a perpetual and non-ending process, a living, dynamic community. You're creating miniature ecosystems, habitat, food. THIS HAS UNIVERSAL, PUBLIC APPEAL. You're a conservationist, a teacher, a steward to the environment and your arboretum fosters that in its visitors.


.....which, by the way, will be in the hundreds per day. We need to devise a logical, intuitive parking / in-out arrangement. If unpaved, a drain system of some kind because we don't want our guests dealing with puddles. It rains in northern Arkansas.

I think, in a lot of ways, you're already there, Forrest. You just need to add the formality of infrastructure and a plan for the future.

....a plan whose cashflow centers are many, and the sale of trees income, we hope, will reach in upwards of 10% of gross total this season (2010 projection).

Would you like to know what your reception / visitor's center will look like?

:biggrinbounce2: :biggrinbounce2: :biggrinbounce2:
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[Run Forrest Run]

Well, I'd say; here is to the future!

I’ll update as things move forward.

(But hit me with the triple slam-dunk – the area has plenty of caves and sinks – some well known and some not so well known.)

Best,

David

“Run Forrest Run”

ps – The reception / visitors center will be constructed of eastern red cedar after the fashion in the attached pics.



A man can dream anyway.........................

 

[Run Forrest Run]

And for the romantics:

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One last pic:

 

[Tree Machine]

Nice pics. Big, beautiful layouts are attainable. A plan to create cashflow can make such things possible. It is not a sin to make money. The more you make, the more of a positive impact you are able to offer back to your employees and community. Be a damn good tourist center and be proud of it.

The biggest cashflow center will likely be camping. Camping has a ripple effect in serving other income centers. Can you incorporate that? This is just an honest question.

Camping leads to a supply store and food service. I'm just coming from the tourism end of things. Cashflow is your life-blood. The more profitable you are, the better sevice and experience you are able to offer your customers.
Cashflow is really necessary in the overall success. It needs to be run like a business, offering visitors a valuable and pleasant experience. Leave them with a good memory. Camping allows extended time in the arboretum setting.


Ahhhh, the Arboretum setting; the main building and reception and tour gathering area, and video / slideshow theater, gift shop. The nursery. The propagation studios. The tissue culture lab. I love the pics of your 'dream' place. Keep aiming high.


To your advantage, this is for the benefit of the environment. Do it totally for the benefit of the environment in all ways possible and your naysayers will be few ( I had this same conversation 15 years ago with someone who took this advice and did real well). You will be untouchable. You are universally non-offensive as a tree farm and recycling center, and the benefit you can offer back to the community and the state of Arkansas is, potentially, great. There are many reasons the state of Arkansas would want you to succeed.

Your universal appeal is greater than you may think. People are all united and bonded by one thing, all humans are in various ways, touched by trees. People naturally gravitate toward the natural, and trees benefit and serve us all. Trees affect us all, in some way, almost every day. We humans will be happy to pay money if you take a bunch of trees and put em in a tree museum. Thrilled if we can keep the kids entertained for a block of time and relax among the exceptional geology you have around there, outstanding bluffs along the Buffalo River, all your Karst and natural springs and caves and the river and the mountains. Trout fishing in the crystal clear, spring-fed rivers. Canoeing, hiking. Your Arboretum can embrace all those things, and more, offer itself as a hub to other attractions. And we want those other attractions to be plugging you.

Your part of the state has so much to offer. An Arboretum is the missing link.