He-Man has a bent rod

[bobt]

....opcorn:...just grabbing a seat here on the lawn ...waitin for the fireworks show to start

Well Angelo, Looks like it's just me and you and I don't even have any sparlers much less fireworks! Haha!

Bob

 

[dingeryote]

Just a silly observation.

I always put a drop of oil or a dab of grease on the threads, when putting the clutch back on. Usually the clutch comes back off with just a nudge on the scrench or blip of the impact.

I gotta wonder about shearing a flywheel key with an impact, when it isn't an issue cutting with a grabby skip chain, as the same sort of forces are at play, and greater really.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[Fish]

So anyone have an extra crank they could sell to the guy?

I looked around the shop, and didn't turn one up.

 

[GA_Boy]

Dont put in too much rope piston could end up below the transfers and chop off a bit of rope....

That happened to me on a 460, never knew it happened until a few white fluffy chunks came flying out the muffler.

 

[MnSam]

It took an average of 5 rounds of removing a clutch and reinstalling it on 017/018 Stihls to break the flywheel loose while using an impact on the clutch. The flywheels were supposedly at Stihl's specs. I did not do those.

Three different saws with multiple times though the test. Very boring test.

Sparkplug in.

There was no other damage.

Safest bet is to remove the flywheel first if you care about the key and are uncertain about the flywheels torque/condition.

Test was done to settle a mild dispute.

Becareful settling disputes or you might end up with a bunch of 017/018 flywheels without keys and probably an 017.

Lots of damaged pistons and rods from those that fear impact wrenchs.

Without a doubt, the safest way. And stay away from the piston stop tool, on these little saws anyway.

 

[simonUK]

Yep those steel rods sure do suck
Brad bent one on his 180 removing the clutch aswell I think
Ive had a ms171 that blew the rod on the rod bearing. Very annoying.

 

[blsnelling]

Nothing new here. You're not the first, second, or third person to bent one of these stamped "sheet metal" rods. I won't own one.

 

[blsnelling]

If the nut holding the flywheel is tight then there shouldnt be any load on the key...the nut, crank, and flywheel all move in unison until the nut is loosened, and any taper is unlocked. Once the nut is loosened the impact gun no longer imparts any torque into the crank, so shearing the key should prove difficult.

Trust me, it will shear the key. Always remove the flywheel first.

 

[NPKenny]

Sounds like the ideal time to upgrade the 210 to a 250. Ebay usually has 2-5 250 engines at any given time. I think the ms250 has an improved crank set-up as well.

I'm always on the look out for a low cost unit to upgrade my little 210. Only reason I even have this saw is it was a $50 flooded saw in great shape on craigslist :hmm3grin2orange:.

 

[ranchcutter]

Thanks for the upgrade idea, NPK.

I had an 021 that provided many years of service, so when it came time to replace it I went for the 210. It has "low mileage" so it really hurts to scrap out the engine (or the whole saw) because of my inexperience with servicing a lightweight saw.

 

[cbfarmall]

This is sad. I've used clutch spider tools and ratchets with a 12" cheater and never broke any piston or rod or flywheel. Only damage I've ever done to a saw was using an impact on an 090--cracked the piston skirt. I suspect it was badly hammered and worn before I ever started working on it and the impact was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Chris B.

 

[angelo c]

This is sad. I've used clutch spider tools and ratchets with a 12" cheater and never broke any piston or rod or flywheel. Only damage I've ever done to a saw was using an impact on an 090--cracked the piston skirt. I suspect it was badly hammered and worn before I ever started working on it and the impact was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Chris B.

Chris,
what kind of an impact gun were you using when you cracked that piston skirt? I use a battery powered dewalt impact driver with a socket attachment dialed down low and have never damaged anything. If I used my IR 1/2 gun I would still dial it down. Maybe someone can enlighten me as to why side forces are greater "impacting" then a 12" cheater bar attached to a 300lb tech and a 1/2 drive ratchet "cranking".

 

[Fish]

What is the part number of the 021/210 crank? the 025/250?

 

[pinemartin]

I got an extra 210 crank assembly I will send the guy just for you fish.

 

[Fish]

Naw, not trolling for charity, give the guy a p.m.

 

[ranchcutter]

Fish:

the MS 210 crankshaft/rod is 1123 030 0411
the MS 250 crankshaft/rod is 1123 030 0400


pinemartin:

Thanks! I'll pm you.

 

[Old Crosscut]

If the nut holding the flywheel is tight then there shouldnt be any load on the key...the nut, crank, and flywheel all move in unison until the nut is loosened, and any taper is unlocked. Once the nut is loosened the impact gun no longer imparts any torque into the crank, so shearing the key should prove difficult.

I've read this reply over and over, also a number of follow-up comments. Either I'm confused or openloop is—or all of us are. I think openloop is talking about using an impact wrench to loosen the nut on the FLYWHEEL SIDE, not the clutch side.
After punching a hole in a perfectly good piston while trying to remove a clutch (using a piston stop) on an MS460, I’ve gone to the rope-in-plug-hole technique. I position the piston just above the exhaust port, then fill the plug hole as full as I can. The trick, I think, as mentioned by bobt, is “to apply even, steady pressure.” Anyway, since using this stop method I’ve had no further issues—and I’ll tell you what: The old saws I’m working on (for a lumberjack friend) have never had the clutches removed, so over the years they’ve been hammered about as tight as anything I’ve ever tried taking apart.
Also, I think the suggestion made by dingeryote is a great one. He suggests putting “…a drop of oil or a dab of grease on the threads when putting the clutch back on.”
Have learned a bunch from this thread—just great stuff—thanks all!

 

[cbfarmall]

Chris,
what kind of an impact gun were you using when you cracked that piston skirt? I use a battery powered dewalt impact driver with a socket attachment dialed down low and have never damaged anything. If I used my IR 1/2 gun I would still dial it down. Maybe someone can enlighten me as to why side forces are greater "impacting" then a 12" cheater bar attached to a 300lb tech and a 1/2 drive ratchet "cranking".

A rather lame 1/2" impact. Pretty much the last time I used one on a saw.

Chris B.

 

[spacemule]

Chris,
what kind of an impact gun were you using when you cracked that piston skirt? I use a battery powered dewalt impact driver with a socket attachment dialed down low and have never damaged anything. If I used my IR 1/2 gun I would still dial it down. Maybe someone can enlighten me as to why side forces are greater "impacting" then a 12" cheater bar attached to a 300lb tech and a 1/2 drive ratchet "cranking".

Same reason your 300 pound tech could stand on top of hammer resting on your head and not seriously injure you, but a 5 year old kid could take that same hammer and swing it, killing you. Impact/shock forces are spectacular.

 

[angelo c]

Space,
I'm not following your analogy but I'm sure its coming from good intent. With that in mind, when I remove a flywheel nut I can hold the flywheel dead steady with no movement in one hand and the impact driver with the other. How are all those damaging p-loads traveling up through the crank and to the rod when my bare hand gets none of them? Its obvious I played Football and not Physics but I always thought more stress is loaded on the crank when your using the piston stop as the counter point for the force needed to free the flywheel/clutch. Maybe the argument here is more applicable for the clutch removal as it is NOT isolated like the flywheel. But I can still grab the flywheel in one hand and hold the clutch with the impact driver and free it with what i'm seeing as no loads up the rod.

I'm open ears guys. I know we have this argument often and maybe I just haven't seen the logic. i also listen real close when some pro wrenches (tommy hall for one) say don't use the gun.

thanks guys, still learning on this end of the keyboard (and saw).