Help me redesign my splitter

[cstamm81]

I picked up a burly home made splitter a few weeks ago off of craigslist. It has a 16 HP Onan, looks to be a 5" ram, old school single stage pump and the rest of the hydraulic system is antiquated as well. The guy who made it was a pro welder, and everything is real heavy duty with grease zerks everywhere. I got the engine running and test split a few pieces, very slow speed and the ram stalls fairly easy. Popped a gauge on the system and the rams stalls at only 1000 psi. There are no adjustments on the pump or the valve.
I already have a 22GPM Haldex pump, so my thoughts are to put it to use. I need to replace the hydraulics to utilize the pump. I know I need a 22 gallon or bigger reservoir, and all components should be rated to flow at least 22gpm. Where I get confused is here: the pump has a 1" NPT outlet. How much do I lose using a 1" line then reducing to 3/4" at the valve? It seems the biggest splitter valves have 3/4" ins/outs and work ports. Then, my cylinder only has 1/2" NPT fittings (I believe they are NPT), so that would be a further reduction in flow.
What is the best setup to use for fittings, valve, cylinder? How do commercially made splitters that use 22gpm pumps do the plumbing? I want to have a really fast cycle speed, I have even thought of going with a 4" cylinder to reduce cycle time. I will try to post some pics of the beast soon. Any and all help is appreciated.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

I picked up a burly home made splitter a few weeks ago off of craigslist. It has a 16 HP Onan, looks to be a 5" ram, old school single stage pump and the rest of the hydraulic system is antiquated as well. The guy who made it was a pro welder, and everything is real heavy duty with grease zerks everywhere. I got the engine running and test split a few pieces, very slow speed and the ram stalls fairly easy. Popped a gauge on the system and the rams stalls at only 1000 psi. There are no adjustments on the pump or the valve.
I already have a 22GPM Haldex pump, so my thoughts are to put it to use. I need to replace the hydraulics to utilize the pump. I know I need a 22 gallon or bigger reservoir, and all components should be rated to flow at least 22gpm. Where I get confused is here: the pump has a 1" NPT outlet. How much do I lose using a 1" line then reducing to 3/4" at the valve? It seems the biggest splitter valves have 3/4" ins/outs and work ports. Then, my cylinder only has 1/2" NPT fittings (I believe they are NPT), so that would be a further reduction in flow.
What is the best setup to use for fittings, valve, cylinder? How do commercially made splitters that use 22gpm pumps do the plumbing? I want to have a really fast cycle speed, I have even thought of going with a 4" cylinder to reduce cycle time. I will try to post some pics of the beast soon. Any and all help is appreciated.

You've pretty much found the limit of your system as it sits right now. It always comes down to the smallest diameter in the line runs, that being the 1/2" at the cylinder. If you want speed and less heat to deal with, I'd suggest taking your cylinder to a hydraulic shop and have them put new 3/4" ports on it. I'd have them replace the o rings and such while they have it as well.

Make sure to run a 1" suction line and use the good suction hose that is MADE for that. Get the good band clamps too, They are worth the money. Any good shop or Parker store will have JIC fittings which are the easiest to use and repair from my experience. Avoid the hard 90 degree bend and go for full sweeps. Hard 90's look cleaner but they'll heat your oil up a LOT more.

My 5 inch was bought with 3/4" ports. The auto cycle valve has all 3/4" hose with JIC fittings. The 2 spool run my outriggers and has 1/2" ports but I wanted that choked down as I'm running a 28 GPM pump.

Here you can see a long sweep 90 degree fitting that is feeding the auto cycle valve.

Do NOT put your filter(if using one) before the pump. It goes on the return side. You can use a flow rated strainer before as I did but no filter.

All the fittings and such are expensive so do your layout and planning carefully.

 

[Oliver1655]

Match the suction hose to the barb on the pump. 22 & 28 gpm 2 stage pumps generally use a 1-1/4" hose. As Kevin said, the larger 3/4" lines will be needed to allow the rated flow from the 22 gpm pump.

Using a 22 gpm pump & 2" dia. x 24" stroke ram for comparison, a 5" cylinder will have a cycle time of 10 sec. A 4" will be 6 sec. A 6 sec cycle time sounds real good to me. A 10 sec cycle time is still better than the box store splitters. My splitter is 8.8 sec using a 16 gpm pump & is able to split alot of wood an hour.

One challenge you will have is finding a 4" cylinder with 3/4" NPT ports. Lion from Monarch Industries in Canada has a 4" cylinder with 3/4" JIC ports.

I use a 4" cylinder with the pressure relief on the valve set at 2,500 psi, (15.7 ton) & I am able to use a 4-way wedge 95% of the time. (Elm, hedge, ...) If the piece is real gnarly I take the 4 way off. The key is to have a sharp wedge & not have it too wide. This will allow it to cut through knots instead of having to try & tear the knots apart. If you look at the commercial splitters / wood processors with multiple splitting edges you will see they are narrow/knife like edges. Also with muli-split wedges like a 4-way, have the vertical splitting edge approximately 2" in front of the horizontal edge so you are splitting in 2 stages. This decreases the force needed & the stress on the splitting components. Here are photos of my 4-way: Notice the horizontal edge is only sharpened/beveled on the top. If you bevel the bottom edge you will be pushing the lower splits down towards the beam/out feed table causing them to want to jam.

 

[Jim Timber]

What are the chain hooks for?

 

[OH_Varmntr]

What are the chain hooks for?

He can remove a stuck round with a chain that way.

 

[Oliver1655]

I really don't have problems with stuck pieces except on rare occasion but at times I have ones that twist/rotate to where they are out of alignment with the wedge. I have a pair of hooks with chains which are used to pop the culprit off the wedge using the ram as OH mentioned. Before I added the 4-way I was able to just wrap a chain but now I need the hooks. Just leave the push sled next to the round you want to remove from the wedge set the hooks in the end of the round then connect the chains to the push sled. Retract the ram & be ready for the round to pop/jump loose. It may slide right off but it is better to expect it to jump loose. I have some photos I took for illustration purposes. The round was not stuck.

Hooks for use with 4-way
Chained wrapped if no 4-way.

If you have a horizontal/vertical splitter & need to strip a large round of the wedge, wrap a chain around the end of the round away from the wedge & the beam. This will keep the round from flipping up & messing up your valve assembly or other components while allowing you to have better control of the round.

 

[cstamm81]

Thanks for the help so far guys. I have done a little hydraulics before, so I understand the basics. When it comes to maximizing a system from scratch that is where I look to you guys. Anyway, by the correct suction hose I am assuming you are referring to http://www.mcmaster.com/#hydraulic-fluid-hose/=pm9uqy
As for the proper band clamps, I am not sure what you mean there, link?
It seems like it is recommended to use JIC fittings, are there valves that use JIC or are they all NPT? I am assuming some places you just use a hose with NPT on one end and JIC on the other. Are you two getting all of your hoses made locally? It seems like it would be hard to order everything online and get everything correct.
Lastly, Oliver1655, do you have a link to the Lion 4" cylinder with 3/4" JIC ports? That really is what I am after, a 4" cylinder for really quick cycle times but the 3/4" ports are a must it seems. I know cycle speed is not everything, but I hate waiting and if I already have the big pump and larger engine why not?

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

Thanks for the help so far guys. I have done a little hydraulics before, so I understand the basics. When it comes to maximizing a system from scratch that is where I look to you guys. Anyway, by the correct suction hose I am assuming you are referring to http://www.mcmaster.com/#hydraulic-fluid-hose/=pm9uqy
As for the proper band clamps, I am not sure what you mean there, link?
It seems like it is recommended to use JIC fittings, are there valves that use JIC or are they all NPT? I am assuming some places you just use a hose with NPT on one end and JIC on the other. Are you two getting all of your hoses made locally? It seems like it would be hard to order everything online and get everything correct.
Lastly, Oliver1655, do you have a link to the Lion 4" cylinder with 3/4" JIC ports? That really is what I am after, a 4" cylinder for really quick cycle times but the 3/4" ports are a must it seems. I know cycle speed is not everything, but I hate waiting and if I already have the big pump and larger engine why not?

The fitting just convert the normal NPT thread to the JIC style fittings as you say. They just seal better and allow you some adjustment when tightening. In other words, just easier to work with.

Here are the band clamps I was referring to.

Twice as wide as normal hose clamps and the tighten with a socket wrench. VERY strong.

I had all my hoses made locally once I had it all set up. Just measure from the end of the fitting to the end of the other.

This is who I dealt with for parts on mine.

http://www.splitez.com/log_splitter_wood_splitters.html

This will give you some choices

 

[gulity1]

Here are some pics for suction hose, 3/4 hyd hose rated for 4000 PSI with JIC fittings I covered my hose with a nylon hose sock to prevent UV ray protection and as welll as rub/damage protection. Also I have inclueded some pic of a filter setup and how it should be plumbed Do not for get shut off vlaves at tank and before filter if you want

 

[gulity1]

View attachment 320584

 

[nathon918]

this is what was recommended to me by my local Parker store https://www.dixonvalve.com/search/p...t-field[0]=categoryName&facet-value[0]=Clamps dixon double bolt clamp theyre very heavy duty, mine are for 1-1/4" suction hose, the only draw back of these is that they are rather large so in tight spots it can be a ***** to tighten the bolts, but if you have the room id definetly recommend there over any type of "band" clamp...

 

[cstamm81]

Ok, I am familiar with those clamps for automotive uses, very heavy duty. Anyone have a link for a place to buy a 4"x24" cylinder with 3/4" JIC ports?
What type of valves to use, specifically for hydraulics?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nathon918]

highly doubt youll ever find a cylinder with jic ports, i think the only other ports a cylinder comes with other than NPT are Komatsu type fittings.
just buy JIC male adapters http://www.hydraulicsdirect.com/2404_SAE_070102_p/2404.htm.
look at surpluscenter.com for cylinders... usually the best prices around

 

[cstamm81]

I don't care if the ports are NPT, just looking for a 4x24 cylinder with some type of 3/4" ports. A quick search on surpluscenter showed only 4" cylinder with either 1/2" NPT or SAE 8 ports.

 

[kubotakid]

I've used bailey hydraulics, for most of my Hyd needs, the surplus center is very competive price wise.

 

[Oliver1655]

CStamm81, My error on the 3/4 JIC, it is 3/4 ORB (O-ring boss).

For the 3,000 psi rated cylinders:
http://www.monarchindustries.com/li...ers/lion/th/th-3000-psi-product-availability/
For the 2,500 psi rated cylinders:
http://www.monarchindustries.com/lion-hydraulics/tie-rod-cylinders/lion/tx/tx-product-availability/

 

[cstamm81]

I swear I had read that 3/4" ORB was the same as 1/2" NPT, not that that makes any sense. If I cannot locate an off the shelf 4" cylinder with 3/4" ports, how much is using one with 1/2" ports going to slow me down if that's the only 1/2" fitting in my system?

 

[rancher2]

We build two splitters both with 28GPM pumps and prince 3/4 pipe supply return and working ports valves both had 4in piston and 2in rod cylinders on cylinders one had 3/8 pipe so we took the cylinder apart cut the fittings off and welded on 3/4 NPT and put the cylinder back together the other cylinder had 1/2 NPT so we just left it and used adapters from the 3/4 to the 1/2 can't tell any speed differance between the two splitters. A four inch cylinder with a 28 GPM pump is a very nice splitter to run.

 

[cstamm81]

Thats great to know rancher2. So from your experience I can get away with 1/2" ports on a 4" cylinder and not have a noticeable loss in cycle time. I am sure this will heat up the oil more, but I will have a large oil reservoir and minimize other restrictions in the system. This should make finding a 4"x24" cylinder much easier, will save me a good bit of money too

 

[rancher2]

Thats great to know rancher2. So from your experience I can get away with 1/2" ports on a 4" cylinder and not have a noticeable loss in cycle time. I am sure this will heat up the oil more, but I will have a large oil reservoir and minimize other restrictions in the system. This should make finding a 4"x24" cylinder much easier, will save me a good bit of money too

Both of these splitters have the same size oil reservoirs [25 gals] and we have never noticed the one with the 1/2 ports running any warmer than the other one and we have run both at the same time when it was a hundred degrees out.