Helping a family choose another saw

[KMB]

Given your stipulations, I would choose the 390.

However, I think one thing about your original post makes me think buying new might not be wise. You said they weren't big on maintenance, air filter cleaning etc. If they crap up the filter or run it wrong and burn it up, what are the chances of getting to use the new saw warranty? Unless the dealer is a good understanding one and they have a good relationship with them then I would give the warranty consideration much less weight. If warranty was not a consideration but local parts and service availability was I would try for a used 361 or used 390, would save enough to probably get several loops of chain and a pair of chaps to share.

Good points. A used 361 would be perfect them...as far as performance goes...at least so I have read.... I've never ran one, only picked one up at a dealership. But I'd hate to see what it looks like after a few of their cutting seasons. They tend to only use one chain until it is very dull, and the air filter would be very dirty. They do seem careful about putting the right mix in the gas tank. I might would have to take on the responsibility of maintaining the saw...I'd hate to see such a nice saw not taken care of. I'll talk to one of the boys a little later this evening...if he's not out girlin'...

Kevin

 

[DanManofStihl]

What is there reasoning behind replacing the stihl ms 290 is it worn out, broken, to small for there application, do they just want a second saw? One of my first new saws was a ms 290 kinda slow yes but it was a reliable saw. I think if you have them upgrade from a ms 290 to a ms 390 they are not really going to be able to tell that much diference. If they are replacing the saw then why don't they sell the ms 290 and help put that money towards geting a bigger saw. If they want to keep it you can get a ms 361 stihl msrp with a 16inch bar for $579.00 then you can put the 16 inch bar on the 290 and put the 20 inch bar on the 361.

 

[KMB]

What's the status on the MS-290, would it be worth an aftermarket 390 P&C when Bailey's finally gets them in stock, maybe with a muffler mod?
(they do wear hearing protection, don't they?)
Do you want to get involved with working on their saw, or would helping them upgrade it leave you on the hook for the rest of your life?

I'm not a fan of the 310 and 390 if you're paying list prices. For a slightly larger piston making slightly more power, you pay a lot more money, despite everything else on the saw being exactly the same.

The 290 runs fine. I already have another friends 039 to work on (toasted P&C, not sure what happened), and I think after I finish with it, I wouldn't want to do another in that series of Stihl's. 2 saws would be good for them...one for each boy to use if they needed to, and having a backup is good.

I hear ya on the 390 and not much more over the 290. I'll pass all this along when I talk to them.

Kevin

 

[KMB]

What is there reasoning behind replacing the stihl ms 290 is it worn out, broken, to small for there application, do they just want a second saw? One of my first new saws was a ms 290 kinda slow yes but it was a reliable saw. I think if you have them upgrade from a ms 290 to a ms 390 they are not really going to be able to tell that much diference. If they are replacing the saw then why don't they sell the ms 290 and help put that money towards geting a bigger saw. If they want to keep it you can get a ms 361 stihl msrp with a 16inch bar for $579.00 then you can put the 16 inch bar on the 290 and put the 20 inch bar on the 361.

I'm not exactly sure, but I believe the 290 has been on loan to them from another friend after their Stihl 028 Woodboss quit on them years ago. They still have it and I think it'll turn over, but won't fire. Why they didn't get it fixed, I don't know (this was many years ago before I met them). Like I said earlier, the 290 runs good and they'll still use it. They just want a bigger saw that will pull a 20" bar better.

As I posted earlier, the 20" on the 290 is .325", .063". The 16" bar would have to be of the same gauge, and the rim on the 361 changed. Could be done.

Kevin

 

[KMB]

I just talked to one of the boys and it sounds like they'll have to all sit down and have a talk about when they'll do a saw purchase. It might be a while before they decide on what they'll do. I did gently nudge the 'used 361' issue. We'll see.

Kevin

 

[Nitro-Fish]

Good points. A used 361 would be perfect them...as far as performance goes...at least so I have read.... I've never ran one, only picked one up at a dealership. But I'd hate to see what it looks like after a few of their cutting seasons. They tend to only use one chain until it is very dull, and the air filter would be very dirty. They do seem careful about putting the right mix in the gas tank. I might would have to take on the responsibility of maintaining the saw...I'd hate to see such a nice saw not taken care of. I'll talk to one of the boys a little later this evening...if he's not out girlin'...

Kevin

OK let the bashing begin, but here goes........

Even going to the 361 you are still talking minimal gains .6hp as opposed to the 390's .5hp........yea, the 361 would probably be easier to find parts for if anything ever happened to it; I mean it is a Pro saw & it is probably easier to work on by not having to disassemble everything, but if you're looking for big gains, the 390 or the 361 will be a disappoitment. I ran a 361 for the first time this past weekend, I would compare it to my 357xp; yes both are excellent saws, but as far as major gains over the 290, I think there are better options out there (as I mentioned earlier in this post). Try sinking the 361 in the same piece of wood with a 440 (or an 044) or a 372xp, then you will see a gain worth the money. any of these three saws can be had in great shape (used) for the money you are talking about.

 

[KMB]

OK let the bashing begin, but here goes........

Even going to the 361 you are still talking minimal gains .6hp as opposed to the 390's .5hp........yea, the 361 would probably be easier to find parts for if anything ever happened to it; I mean it is a Pro saw & it is probably easier to work on by not having to disassemble everything, but if you're looking for big gains, the 390 or the 361 will be a disappoitment. I ran a 361 for the first time this past weekend, I would compare it to my 357xp; yes both are excellent saws, but as far as major gains over the 290, I think there are better options out there (as I mentioned earlier in this post). Try sinking the 361 in the same piece of wood with a 440 (or an 044) or a 372xp, then you will see a gain worth the money. any of these three saws can be had in great shape (used) for the money you are talking about.

I'll say it yet again...used saws around here locally are hard to come by. Bigger used saws are even harder to find. I know they come up here in the trading post, but when my friends are ready to buy, they may want it 'now', and said used saw might not be available. Ebay is out of the question. Pawn shops...I had said no earlier...but at least you can handle them, so maybe. But these folks are not saw enthusiast (spelling?), they'll probably not want to go picking through pawn shops like I would. I agree, I'm sure the boys would like a 70cc a lot. Right now I'll wait until they actually make the decision to get serious about buying rather than talking about it. Than go from there.

Kevin

 

[volks-man]

a new 361 can be had for less than $600 out the door.
i vote 361.

or...........................


they are hard on saws and need a warranty? echo. not sure what $ the new 530 is but i would bet it's less that $600. you might be able to score a 670 for that coin as well (pick your dealer). and, don't forget the 5 year warranty.


i'm just sayin' (runs and ducks the stones being tossed)

 

[Taxmantoo]

Hey, I know what would cut 3x faster than that Farm Boss!
A freshly tuned Wood Boss with a sharp chain!
And you might be able to do it for less than $50. Heck, make it four sharp chains while you're at it, but then the cost goes up.

 

[bill268xp]

brand new 361 in the trading post for $450.00. just thee power head. I have the 6401 and what a great saw and the have a great warranty but you will not need it!! good luck with your choice . best wishes Bill:greenchainsaw:

 

[kruege84]

What's the status on the MS-290, would it be worth an aftermarket 390 P&C when Bailey's finally gets them in stock, maybe with a muffler mod?
(they do wear hearing protection, don't they?)
Do you want to get involved with working on their saw, or would helping them upgrade it leave you on the hook for the rest of your life?

I'm not a fan of the 310 and 390 if you're paying list prices. For a slightly larger piston making slightly more power, you pay a lot more money, despite everything else on the saw being exactly the same.




That's because there was about a 40% price drop in the JD saws when they were discontinued. If I had my choice between a $580 CS62 and a $610 MS361, I'd have to take the 361, but if the price of the CS62 were lowered to $360... (does the idea of a 61.5cc Efco for 270 euros make you jealous?)

I was thinking along the same lines. Pick a 390 P/C, sell the old P/C for a couple bucks on fleabay, wake the saw up with a muffler mod. Then spend a little $$ that was saved on chaps, hearing protection, a new bar, and some chains. I would also swap over to a 3/8 pitch.

It won't cure cancer, but it'll be a helluva lot cheaper than a 361.

Just my $.02

 

[bill268xp]

just trying to learn how to load some pictures please ignore me!!! thanks!!!

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

Are they willing to learn maintenance?

Good points. A used 361 would be perfect them...as far as performance goes...at least so I have read.... I've never ran one, only picked one up at a dealership. But I'd hate to see what it looks like after a few of their cutting seasons. They tend to only use one chain until it is very dull, and the air filter would be very dirty. They do seem careful about putting the right mix in the gas tank. I might would have to take on the responsibility of maintaining the saw...I'd hate to see such a nice saw not taken care of. I'll talk to one of the boys a little later this evening...if he's not out girlin'...

Kevin

Kevin

I think that this is a wonderful thing that you're doing!

Are the boys Are they willing to learn maintenance? If they are as good of friends as you say, why not cut wood with them and teach them how to sharpen, .....clean filters?

Show them what a sharp chain cuts like....size of chip..when to stop and put out the file.... or at least put a sharp chain on..etc.... I can remember as a kid cutting with a dull chain. If someone came over and helped me I would have gotten a lot more wood cut.....in a shorter time...with less frustration!

I'd say a couple of saw jams together would help.

You mentioned that they have a saw that doesn't run. Would it be worth it to check that out? It might be something simple.....or not so simple...

Dan

How old are the boys?

Dan

 

[KMB]

a new 361 can be had for less than $600 out the door.
i vote 361.

or...........................


they are hard on saws and need a warranty? echo. not sure what $ the new 530 is but i would bet it's less that $600. you might be able to score a 670 for that coin as well (pick your dealer). and, don't forget the 5 year warranty.


i'm just sayin' (runs and ducks the stones being tossed)

A Echo 670 might just be better for them...5 yr. warranty...there is a close dealer. Of course not near the saw that the 361 is...again, as I have read...I've never ran either. Another option I'll pass along to them.

Kevin

 

[KMB]

I was thinking along the same lines. Pick a 390 P/C, sell the old P/C for a couple bucks on fleabay, wake the saw up with a muffler mod. Then spend a little $$ that was saved on chaps, hearing protection, a new bar, and some chains. I would also swap over to a 3/8 pitch.

It won't cure cancer, but it'll be a helluva lot cheaper than a 361.

Just my $.02

As I have mentioned already, I think 2 saws would be good for them. Besides, I think the 290 has been on a long term loan to them...so it's not actually theirs. It would be something I would do if I owned the 290, had found AS, money was tight, and had some mechanical skills.

About the PPE...the dad has already once been bit by the saw a few years ago...but I guess not enough to realize he needs chaps . They don't wear no PPE..."been doing it for years...". The few times I've cut with them (or they have seen me cutting), I'm in my chaps, safety glasses, hearing protection, gloves, steel toe boots. I think it's a matter of pride. I do know that my daughter (and if the Lord gives me a son some day) will be learning and wearing PPE when out with dad using OPE.

Kevin

 

[KMB]

Kevin

I think that this is a wonderful thing that you're doing!

Are the boys Are they willing to learn maintenance? If they are as good of friends as you say, why not cut wood with them and teach them how to sharpen, .....clean filters?

Show them what a sharp chain cuts like....size of chip..when to stop and put out the file.... or at least put a sharp chain on..etc.... I can remember as a kid cutting with a dull chain. If someone came over and helped me I would have gotten a lot more wood cut.....in a shorter time...with less frustration!

I'd say a couple of saw jams together would help.

You mentioned that they have a saw that doesn't run. Would it be worth it to check that out? It might be something simple.....or not so simple...

Dan

How old are the boys?

Dan

Good post.

The boys are I think 30 and 32 yrs. old. I'd like to do more cutting with them. And there might be an opportunity for that when they can get a problem tree down in their parents yard. The tree will have to be took down by a pro...and that will be a major factor in the new saw purchase. Once the tree is down on the ground, they/we can take care of the rest.

You are right, I should be passing along what I've learned here about saw maintenance and sharp chains and so on. I'll do what I can...but some of us are set in our ways.

As far as the 028 that doesn't run, I will look at it eventually. I just have to many irons in the fire right now. Hopefully it's just in need of a carb kit, fresh fuel, maybe replacing the fuel line/filter, impulse line and that kind of stuff.

Kevin

 

[blsnelling]

I know this sounds harsh and I don't intend to be mean but...if they refuse to take proper care of it, they don't deserve a nice saw. There's no excuse for abusing equipment, especially if they've been told. All they're going to do is tear it up. They need to learn to use and appreciate what they have before they get something nicer. Again, please don't take me wrong.

 

[orange fever]

Saw for the brothers

I read every post and agree with most of what was said. You mentioned that they cut mostly oak, same as me. I have ran most of the saws mentioned. My opinion is to make the most of the non-running Stihl by selling it or trading it in and to save an extra dollar or 2 if they need to and buy a 372XP Husky or 2171 Jonsered. When I cut with my 2 sons we go to the woods with 6 chainsaws in 3 different brands. My 2171 cuts the big stuff with a little help from my sons 2165. The other option would be for them to buy a 2165 along with a few loops of chain. The 2165 is a nice strong saw, just not as fast as the 2171. If the 2 brothers have been running mostly older or poorly tuned saws they may like the 2165 better, it's much calmer, lower rpm and seems to have a ton of "grunt". In comparison the 2171 is pure RPM and performance. In reality it's hard to have enough big wood to keep a 2171/372XP busy, they make short work of big wood. Nothing against Stihl (I own 1) but for big hardwood the J'red/Huskys in that 65-75cc range rule the class.

 

[KMB]

I know this sounds harsh and I don't intend to be mean but...if they refuse to take proper care of it, they don't deserve a nice saw. There's no excuse for abusing equipment, especially if they've been told. All they're going to do is tear it up. They need to learn to use and appreciate what they have before they get something nicer. Again, please don't take me wrong.

They are my good friends...but the way they look after their stuff (as well as other friends and neighbors near me) is sometimes, almost unbelievable. It's more the maintenance than how they use the equipment (as far as pushing a saw in a cut)...but lack of maintenance can (and will) cause equipment abuse. So Brad...you might have been harsh...but it is very, very true. I feel the same way, but it would be hard for me to tell them that they don't deserve a nice saw. It was not taken wrong. Good post. Maybe, hopefully, when they do get a new saw, I can TRY and show them about basic maintenance and care and see what happens. Now...I'm not saying I'm better than them...I just like to take care of my stuff, especially since my hard earned money paid for it...well my Shindaiwa trimmer was a birthday present, but I treat it like I bought. I do know that proper maintenance of anything mechanical will help it last longer.

Kevin

 

[blsnelling]

Thanks for understanding my point. I also understand that you can only do so much to emphasize the importance of maintenance. People talk about their cars, or whatever, wearing out when really all they did was refuse to repair it when it broke and it just slowly deteriorates. What they don't understand is that it's much cheaper in the long run to make those repairs and take care of their stuff. It's a viscious cycle that keeps them down.