Here's a few thoughts about this forum's wood burners
- Thread starter CrappieKeith
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Marc
Addicted to ArboristSite
Heat is heat, no matter how you slice it.
That being said, humans and other opaque objects are heated faster by woodstoves and inserts because they primarily radiate the heat, while radiators, despite their name, are primarily convectors. So for a human to be warmed by a radiator, the radiator must heat the air, which then must convect to the human, which takes longer.
KsWoodsMan
Addicted to ArboristSite
I stay with a stove instead of a furnace because the stove runs on smoke. No electricity required.
If I could get it to make its own electricty to power a blower I might consider a furnace in addition to the wood stove or as a replacement.
If I could get it to make its own electricty to power a blower I might consider a furnace in addition to the wood stove or as a replacement.
Larry Ashcraft
ArboristSite Operative
Not quite. Radiant heat heats objects. Central air heats air (blows warm air around). Big difference.
My shop has central air. 72 can feel drafty and cold there. At home we have the stove. 72 at home and I'm opening the windows.
Laird
Nemo me impune lacessit
Obviously its a personal decision for everyone. Everyone's circumstances are different.
I love cutting wood. I did not keep track but I suppose I went through 8-10 cords this winter to heat the house, DHW and my shop/garage. I cut and stacked 3 times that amount and am set for the next 2-3 years, But I will probably cut the same amount next year. For me the wood is free as the family farm has over 300 acres of timber.
If I only needed 3-4 cords per year I would not be in as good a shape physically as I am right now.
My nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away.
My house will not burn down because I choose to heat with wood. Something indoors would cause me to worry about that.
When I bought my OWB I needed a new furnace anyway.
I own a Vermont Castings woodstove but it is not installed. My homeowners insurance would go up if it was. But it can be put in fairly easily in the event I lose electricity for an extended period.
Personally I have not once wished I did not have to go out and load the OWB, and have mixed feelings about warm weather coming!
An OWB might not be the most efficient user of fuel, they are rather expensive initially, but knowing what I know now I would do it again in a heartbeat.
I love cutting wood. I did not keep track but I suppose I went through 8-10 cords this winter to heat the house, DHW and my shop/garage. I cut and stacked 3 times that amount and am set for the next 2-3 years, But I will probably cut the same amount next year. For me the wood is free as the family farm has over 300 acres of timber.
If I only needed 3-4 cords per year I would not be in as good a shape physically as I am right now.
My nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away.
My house will not burn down because I choose to heat with wood. Something indoors would cause me to worry about that.
When I bought my OWB I needed a new furnace anyway.
I own a Vermont Castings woodstove but it is not installed. My homeowners insurance would go up if it was. But it can be put in fairly easily in the event I lose electricity for an extended period.
Personally I have not once wished I did not have to go out and load the OWB, and have mixed feelings about warm weather coming!
An OWB might not be the most efficient user of fuel, they are rather expensive initially, but knowing what I know now I would do it again in a heartbeat.
trailmaker
ArboristSite Operative
Keith, I assume you are talking about furnaces that use wood gasification technology. I'd love to have one of these and I looked into it, but a couple of things have held me back so far. The units are generally pretty expensive, and the install would be beyond me so I'd be paying for that. And from what I understand, these units aren't much more efficient than stoves unless you have storage tanks which is another expense not to mention space for the tanks. All this adds up and for me personally, if I'm going to spend that kind of money I'd probably have a masonry heater installed. I know that furnaces have some advantages over masonry heaters but to me they are the holy grail of wood heating. Like the wood gassification furnaces they are efficient but they appear to be much simpler. Simple and low maintenance is key for me. With two cars, two dirtbikes, a blower, chainsaw, utv, etc. to maintain, I think I'd go with the masonry heater technology that's tried and true since the middle ages. I love the concept of wood gasifiers with storage and, who knows, maybe I'll have one some day, but I'm just a little leery at this point about the costs and maintenance. If I'm wrong about my assumptions, please correct me, I'd love to know more.
trailmaker
ArboristSite Operative
I actually started a thread recently that's relevant to this one.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=94738
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=94738
Spotted Owl
ArboristSite Guru
Stove for us, a Lopi Liberty(refurbished) is what we have for our upper and main levels 2400+ sq ft. The basement is Fishers biggest(being refurbished) that smoke dragon does great for the 1500+ sq ft basement. When that burns it takes a load off the upper stove. Both crank and both are all we have for heat.
We go down every year for sometimes up to 2 and a half weeks. A safe bet is that we will be down 2 - 3 times for at least 4 days. The stove will do our cooking, works with no power, gives light off after sun down, the fire being in the house makes everyone feel more secure when the power is out and I'm out turning it back on, sometimes not home for a week or more. Generator 4 hours a day for the freezers and nothing else. To bring in wood is nothing, back the P/U to the wood shack fill and drive back to the house and unload. With a 14yr old boy, 11 yr old daughter and mom getting wood in is no problem when I'm not able. There is no wood mess in our house. You can have as much mess as you like or a little. Our wood box is a 6X2X2 galv stock tank, contains a duff nicely and for us with dry wood there is very little if any in the bug dept.
2 neighbors have OWBs one is getting rid of theirs. Both dislike them. Lots of smoke, lots of wood, lots of hassle in many ways. From what I see of theirs I will never go with an OWB. Between the 2 they have had 3 OWBs. Not at all happy but stuck, other than the neighbor that will be using his early 60s wood forced air furnace.
I have been around stoves my entire life. Here is what I have come up with.
Wood heat is warmer
You are warmer when you can see the fire.
Wood is time + $13 per cord for us
The only mess in the house is what you deem OK. We have no mess(vacuum)
No moving parts as said above it's a metal box that all it has to be is a box
No payment of $500+ a month minimum to the power co. I unhooked the elect furnace after the mortage co did their appraisal. All we have is wood.
I don't want to give it back to them.
Wood heat, Stove or OWB to each their own for their own reasons.
For us:
Stove = $1400, moved with us twice
Wood = $13 X how ever many cords, average 9 per year at 80* inside
Saw = $ ?, don't know, saws are for work, firewood and fun
Warm winter and great times and memories made with my family = Priceless
Time not included above, see priceless line
Owl
We go down every year for sometimes up to 2 and a half weeks. A safe bet is that we will be down 2 - 3 times for at least 4 days. The stove will do our cooking, works with no power, gives light off after sun down, the fire being in the house makes everyone feel more secure when the power is out and I'm out turning it back on, sometimes not home for a week or more. Generator 4 hours a day for the freezers and nothing else. To bring in wood is nothing, back the P/U to the wood shack fill and drive back to the house and unload. With a 14yr old boy, 11 yr old daughter and mom getting wood in is no problem when I'm not able. There is no wood mess in our house. You can have as much mess as you like or a little. Our wood box is a 6X2X2 galv stock tank, contains a duff nicely and for us with dry wood there is very little if any in the bug dept.
2 neighbors have OWBs one is getting rid of theirs. Both dislike them. Lots of smoke, lots of wood, lots of hassle in many ways. From what I see of theirs I will never go with an OWB. Between the 2 they have had 3 OWBs. Not at all happy but stuck, other than the neighbor that will be using his early 60s wood forced air furnace.
I have been around stoves my entire life. Here is what I have come up with.
Wood heat is warmer
You are warmer when you can see the fire.
Wood is time + $13 per cord for us
The only mess in the house is what you deem OK. We have no mess(vacuum)
No moving parts as said above it's a metal box that all it has to be is a box
No payment of $500+ a month minimum to the power co. I unhooked the elect furnace after the mortage co did their appraisal. All we have is wood.
I don't want to give it back to them.
Wood heat, Stove or OWB to each their own for their own reasons.
For us:
Stove = $1400, moved with us twice
Wood = $13 X how ever many cords, average 9 per year at 80* inside
Saw = $ ?, don't know, saws are for work, firewood and fun
Warm winter and great times and memories made with my family = Priceless
Time not included above, see priceless line
Owl
AOD
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have to agree that a big wood furnace is the way to go, it's much more efficient than an OWB. My buddy has a Norseman furnace and it roasts him out of his place, and my grandmother burns in an old Holland gravity coal furnace with huge 20" cold air ducts feeding it. That thing fired hard on a cold, windy night will roast out her old, uninsulated farmhouse, all with no electricity.
johnnydel29
ArboristSite Lurker
Very well put.
It come down to personal preference. I love woodstoves - we use ours all the time,and, it come in real handy when the power goes out (owb are uselss then).
IMO we would not be saving much w/ an owb. They are quite expensive, eat quite a bit of wood and smoke lingers pretty low, unless you have it set on high ground. In my parts - many famers own owb, which makes sense. They are on the property all day long, heat mutiple out buildings & shops, and cut all of the wood on their land and process using their own equiptment. If you have to purchase wood, load your pick up or trailer for wood for owb - I do not think it is worth owning. My neighbor has one - he paid 14k for it, cuts 20 cords a year and now he is crying that he will be dead by the time it pays for itself.
Good points everyone. I currently am heating with a Hotblast Add-on that I am happy with for a few reasons:
1.) Fairly inexpensive initial investment(important because my wife was leery if it would work for us. I grew up with wood heat but its new to her.)
2.) Walk-in basement/garage.(huge plus. I load up the trailer once a week and back it into the garage where the wood stays dry and close to the furnace)
3.) Mess stays in the basement and garage.
4.) Don't have to walk outdoors(bigger deal for the wife) to feed the furnace.
After two years it has worked well but could be set up better. I wish I knew 3 years ago when we replaced our fuel oil furnace that this set-up worked so well. I would have without a doubt installed a duel-fuel unit. I still may.
The OWB is great if you have your own unlimited wood source.
I miss the insert I grew up with for the ambiance and the quiet warmth of sitting next to a crackling fire.
To each his own... They all beat paying the oilman!
1.) Fairly inexpensive initial investment(important because my wife was leery if it would work for us. I grew up with wood heat but its new to her.)
2.) Walk-in basement/garage.(huge plus. I load up the trailer once a week and back it into the garage where the wood stays dry and close to the furnace)
3.) Mess stays in the basement and garage.
4.) Don't have to walk outdoors(bigger deal for the wife) to feed the furnace.
After two years it has worked well but could be set up better. I wish I knew 3 years ago when we replaced our fuel oil furnace that this set-up worked so well. I would have without a doubt installed a duel-fuel unit. I still may.
The OWB is great if you have your own unlimited wood source.
I miss the insert I grew up with for the ambiance and the quiet warmth of sitting next to a crackling fire.
To each his own... They all beat paying the oilman!
Justsaws
Addicted to ArboristSite
I use a Clayton 1600 furnace and have no real complaints. It can get a tad toasty/freaking hot if I am not paying attention but that is not the furnace that is me. It is easy on the wood and with forced air there are no cold spots in the house. That was my biggest complaint with stoves, toasty in the living room and a bit brisk in the bathroom. I should add that I am a diligent door closer and to old to change that habit.
OWB required way to much wood and way to much of an initial investment to be cost effective for my needs. It would have been over a ten year pay off.
OWB required way to much wood and way to much of an initial investment to be cost effective for my needs. It would have been over a ten year pay off.
dingeryote
Blueberry Baron
A wood furnace would be interesting as I would have to put it somewhere.
Basement is out. Hauling wood indoors to the basement means either stairs, or one mean slope covered in snow and sometimes Mud.
That means Garage where we park the vehicles. Nope, that would just be silly pilling wood where ya park your vehicle so it dosn't get snow drifts over 'em.
That leaves the fireplace or an OWB.
OWB is out. I hate plumbing, and the wife wont have anything that looks like an outhouse in the backyard.
The hybrid fireplace works just fine, and the propane bill is next to nothing.
Volume of wood burned IS a bit of a pain, but IS made up for in asthetics and the radiant heat on COLD nights where no furnace will make a house feel "Warm".
We lose power often here. All I gotta do is wait it out, or switch over to 12v backup power for the blower if I don't feel like getting the Gennie out.
A Wood furnace that could burn coal, might interest me in the future though.
I gotta have a backup and if Propane keeps going nuts, I'll dump it all together.
Stay safe!
Dingeryote
Basement is out. Hauling wood indoors to the basement means either stairs, or one mean slope covered in snow and sometimes Mud.
That means Garage where we park the vehicles. Nope, that would just be silly pilling wood where ya park your vehicle so it dosn't get snow drifts over 'em.
That leaves the fireplace or an OWB.
OWB is out. I hate plumbing, and the wife wont have anything that looks like an outhouse in the backyard.
The hybrid fireplace works just fine, and the propane bill is next to nothing.
Volume of wood burned IS a bit of a pain, but IS made up for in asthetics and the radiant heat on COLD nights where no furnace will make a house feel "Warm".
We lose power often here. All I gotta do is wait it out, or switch over to 12v backup power for the blower if I don't feel like getting the Gennie out.
A Wood furnace that could burn coal, might interest me in the future though.
I gotta have a backup and if Propane keeps going nuts, I'll dump it all together.
Stay safe!
Dingeryote
carvinmark
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have a wood/oil furnace. I've never used the oil side, it's not even hooked up. I put the furnace next to my house and inside a 10'x10' metal shed and ducted return and hot ducts into my existing duct work from the propane furnace. This was a used furnace I got for 100.00 on Craigs list. The shed was a freebie on C.L.. I burned about 8 full cord this winter in our extremely cold and long winter keeping the house around 75 with windows open most of the time. I have no mess or smell in the house, a great plus for me. No gas for heat at all this year!!! I have about 350.00 invested, not counting wood. I buy a permit from the DNR for 20.00 and cut all my wood.
I have had fireplaces, inserts and wood burners and enjoyed them but never got the performance I get now.
Two of my close friends installed OWB's last year and I honestly was jealous because I had to cheap out. They are both very unhappy with the wood consumption but have no complaints other than that.
I have had fireplaces, inserts and wood burners and enjoyed them but never got the performance I get now.
Two of my close friends installed OWB's last year and I honestly was jealous because I had to cheap out. They are both very unhappy with the wood consumption but have no complaints other than that.
Marc
Addicted to ArboristSite
You must have missed the second part of my post
1 joule of heat is always equal to 1 joule of heat, no matter which of the three modes of transfer you're dealing with. The type of transfer, however, does affect how a human feels the effects of heat. And how a house is warmed, etc.
Most people intuitively can't separate the distinctly different but related concepts of temperature and heat. Which is understandable, but leads to a lot of confusion.
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Coldfront
Addicted to ArboristSite
My inside wood furnace works just fine and even if the power is out the heat still rises up through the vents. I went through about 7 cords this winter and it was a long cold winter here in northern WI. I use about $35 per month on cooking and hot water, nat. gas oh well. My friend down the street same style and size house got the same 10 cord load as I did with his OWB and he only has about a little less than 1 cord left, so at $85 per cord I came out better, and he still had to pay for his cooking gas. Never once all winter has the gas side of my furnace kicked on, zero gas for heat.
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MJR
ArboristSite Guru
Newer wood stoves are the way to go, cleaner burning, look pretty, less parts to have problems with, no electrical thirst, and most important to me is that it gives a house a very home”ie” feel. Woodstoves appeal to all the senses even taste – put the cast iron pan on with some fresh ice pulled walleye or some venison pepper and onions and I am a happy man.
Why don't people who live in colder climates move to somewhere move moderate?
Its' an equally valid question.
sbhooper
Addicted to ArboristSite
I live in a 2300 sq ft, two-story house. It was not built real tight and so is drafty when we have high wind. I installed a Norseman 2500 wood furnace last summer because I have access to lots of wood and I got sick of paying propane bills-it would have been around $2500 this winter at contracted price. The furnace cost us less than $3000 including the 27 foot chimney. I have paid a total of $310 for propane since September-a savings of approximately $2200. The furnace will have paid for itself in about half or less of one more season.
The furnace has a 24" firebox and you can get a 10+ inch log in the door. It has a double blower and we hooked it into the existing duct work of the house. The furnace keeps the living area of the house pleasant and when the temp outside is 25 degrees or more, it will run you out. The furnace takes lots of wood. It is necessary to have a roaring fire to get the best out of it because the heat box has to hit 200 degrees before the blower force the heat into the duct work. Even if the power is off, the heat will raise from the heat box and exit the vents into the house. There would not be any threat of freeze-up. An extension cord can be run into the basement from a generator to keep the blowers active also.
This is the best money I ever spent on my house. As long as I can keep cutting wood I will be in good shape also.
One more good thing about a furnace is that the smell of the wood is not an issue. You can burn any wood, because unlike a fireplace, the smell is not going into the house. If it is available, it goes into my furnace, so most of the wood from my tree-cutting contracts is salvaged no matter what kind it is.
The furnace has a 24" firebox and you can get a 10+ inch log in the door. It has a double blower and we hooked it into the existing duct work of the house. The furnace keeps the living area of the house pleasant and when the temp outside is 25 degrees or more, it will run you out. The furnace takes lots of wood. It is necessary to have a roaring fire to get the best out of it because the heat box has to hit 200 degrees before the blower force the heat into the duct work. Even if the power is off, the heat will raise from the heat box and exit the vents into the house. There would not be any threat of freeze-up. An extension cord can be run into the basement from a generator to keep the blowers active also.
This is the best money I ever spent on my house. As long as I can keep cutting wood I will be in good shape also.
One more good thing about a furnace is that the smell of the wood is not an issue. You can burn any wood, because unlike a fireplace, the smell is not going into the house. If it is available, it goes into my furnace, so most of the wood from my tree-cutting contracts is salvaged no matter what kind it is.
bowtechmadman
Addicted to ArboristSite
If that furnace is inside your going to get the smell...every time you open the door to feed it your going to get some smoke coming out.
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