How rescueable are we?

[sgreanbeans]

It is nasty stuff, never used it myself, but I had a bunch of Marines that had. It burns the skin around the wound and the scares are raised and really nasty looking, BUT, it stops the bleeding. They carried that stuff and tampons on their flak. From what I was told, tampons saved alot of lives, perfect for bullet wounds. The clotting agents where used for IED wounds mainly. Again, not speaking from experience, but the majority of kids I had working for me at OCS where in the "****" alot. Had one kid that did 131 vehicle recovery's, they try and limit a wrecker operator to 30, as most of the time, he is picking up his friends. This kid was blown up and shot several times, and he swears by that QuickClot..........and tampons! He is now a spec operator at MarSoc, which for u that don't know what that is, it means he would kick Rambo's aas!

 

[squad143]

A ladder truck is limited to where it can go. In the back yard or small access road, or a hilly or mountain environment where a lot of trees are, the fire dept. would be helpless. I don't think they climb trees, and surely not difficult trees.
Self rescue is a giving if your conscience and alert. Its the situations where you are not in control of your situation. Passed out, pinned and can't move, arms blown off by HV wires,there are many scenarios, and there all bad.
I check into getting a pak of "blood stopper"' that could be poured on a big wound and suppose to make the blood clot up immediately. I've seen some guys wear them on the back of their saddles. I think I'd to with a a piece off rope tied off above the wound.
I don't think as many guys get injured from falling as the general public thinks. Electricity might be no. 1, getting cut or crushed up there also. Heart attacks or heat strokes, most of those don't lend them selfs to self rescue.

I agree Beast. I work on one of North Americas largest fire departments and unless your in a spot that you could put a bucket truck in, an Aerial or Platform truck won't work and you're pretty much on your own. Unless you're lucky enough to have a tree guy on the fire truck and an extra pair of spikes available (fat chance) that is.

I'm fortunate with my tree business, in that I usually have another climber on the crew. I also give every crew member a blood stopper kit and everybody knows where are the first aid kits are. Additionally, we discuss at our tailgate meeting, the hazards of the job and even something simple as the address of where we're working and where it's written down (on the dash) in case they forget.

However, to answer the OP's original question of "how rescuable are we"?
- Not very

 

[Pelorus]

Does Toronto FD not have a high angle rescue component?
I quit the volunteer Mickey Mouse FD partly over not being allowed to take a rope tech course offered at the Fire College in Gravenhurst. Chief said "he (me) doesn't need that". And that was the end of it. Wanted to take the course just for my own benefit at my own expense - wouldn't have cost the Town or the FD anything. Sigh.

 

[squad143]

Does Toronto FD not have a high angle rescue component?
I quit the volunteer Mickey Mouse FD partly over not being allowed to take a rope tech course offered at the Fire College in Gravenhurst. Chief said "he (me) doesn't need that". And that was the end of it. Wanted to take the course just for my own benefit at my own expense - wouldn't have cost the Town or the FD anything. Sigh.

Yes we do. (I actually instruct HA while on shift). But it's mainly rappelling from buildings, bridges and cliffs. We do have a small component on ascending, however we as arborists rarely have a system in place that could be used by by anyone, including the FD.

I currently have our Special Operations section field testing the big shot, as a means of getting a line across rivers for swift water rescue. The crews are liking it, and when it does make it onto the trucks, could be used for setting lines in trees for rescue.

Sounds like your old Chief lost a good asset.

 

[Pelorus]

Bigshot sounds like a good fit for swift water rescue. (and many shore based water rescue scenarios).
Local FD has a pool noodle type contraption that works (doesn't work very well at all) like a wind up sewer snake. Also have a largish floating throwball attached to bulky (polypropylene?) line that also works poorly and totally inaccurate for throws over about 50 feet.
Basically what it boils down to is that if someone runs into trouble up here either up a tree, or on the water, you are completely 100% screwed as far as counting on the local FD to rescue you, vs. retrieve you eventually.

 

[Nemus Talea]

Do you guys think the industry is one lawsuit away from requiring two climbers on every crew / site?

 

[pdqdl]

Lawyers make too much money; tree services do not. I don't think any amount of lawsuits will put more climbers on the job.

It will just put more tree services out of business, with an increase in the number of hacks and solo operators that will decline to follow whatever rules are dreamed up by the lawyers to save us from ourselves.

 

[beastmaster]

Do you guys think the industry is one lawsuit away from requiring two climbers on every crew / site?

I seem to have read some where that CAL-OSHA or ANSI or some governing body required a rescued trained climber on the ground when ever a climber is in the tree. I'll try and see if I can find where I saw that at. Even if it is true, I have never personally meant a climber who has rescue training. I personally enjoy jobs where I can just work by my self. I rather climb down and untangle my rope my self, then have it all tangled with three groundmen, talking on their phones, smoking cigs, or hiding behind the truck. I do always carry my cell phone when in a tree in case I have to call 911 for someone.
Here in Calif. all the regulations and laws seem to be made to hurt the small business man. Adding a bunch of safety regs, no matter how much their needed buts a big burden on small owner operaters who try to stay legit, and just encourage those fly by nighters to farther break the rules.

 

[beastmaster]

Ok I found it, but its a UK thing http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/afag402.pdf They regulate everything over across the pond.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

I have my climber trainee and his gear on most jobs, the idea being that he would rescue me or vice-versa. Of course, we really should practice... If the climber is using SRT, a basic idea is to have two anchors at the base, one with a prusik and pulley attached to the line; that way the other tie-in can be untied and the climber let down by sliding the prusik.

 

[treesmith]

Ok I found it, but its a UK thing http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/afag402.pdf They regulate everything over across the pond.

Yep, any time you Americans feel your liberties are being crimped, go live in the UK for a year, you'll feel much better when you get home

 

[TreeGuyHR]

I seem to have read some where that CAL-OSHA or ANSI or some governing body required a rescued trained climber on the ground when ever a climber is in the tree. I'll try and see if I can find where I saw that at. Even if it is true, I have never personally meant a climber who has rescue training. I personally enjoy jobs where I can just work by my self. I rather climb down and untangle my rope my self, then have it all tangled with three groundmen, talking on their phones, smoking cigs, or hiding behind the truck. I do always carry my cell phone when in a tree in case I have to call 911 for someone.
Here in Calif. all the regulations and laws seem to be made to hurt the small business man. Adding a bunch of safety regs, no matter how much their needed buts a big burden on small owner operaters who try to stay legit, and just encourage those fly by nighters to farther break the rules.

I almost snorted coffee out my nose reading this. On a big job one time, I and my expert climber were in the same tree (a large big -eaf maple with around 2 tons of ivy in it) At one point my three guys on the ground all disappeared. Had to climb down and move brush off of our ropes. It seems it took three guys to obsessively use the same spot to pile limbs and ivy, so they all piled in the pick-up and chopped brush for an hr out of ear shot and sight. (We were dumping the un-chippable junk in a ravine).

Sigh. Times like that make you want to hit 'em with a small chunk on purpose to get their attention. I didn't want to be the baddie, so i told the group that there was a "miss-communication", but told them one at a time that what happened was not acceptable. You tell groundiies that there is an order of importance: stay out of the way, look at the climber every few minutes, keep the LZ and ropes clear, THEN drag brush and VERY LAST cut up wood.

Perfect storm of headuparse. Make another pile!!

 

[Nemus Talea]

stay out of the way, look at the climber every few minutes, keep the LZ and ropes clear, THEN drag brush and VERY LAST cut up wood.

But... where is "chatting on the cell phone", "rolling a fatty" or "play with home owners dog" on the list?

Good default groundie responsibilities.

 

[treesmith]

Hi I posted this in another thread talking about wire core flip-lines when someone mentioned a wire core prussik, should have posted it here too so...

Worst case scenario in a rescue you need a quick release part, something that can be cut with a knife. You can't guarantee being able to release/unclip a flip-line under tension in certain situations so it makes sense to have a fast way of release. I was also taught to carry an aerial rescue knife at all times

 

[imagineero]

Is there something special about an aerial rescue knife that makes it different from a normal knife?

 

[treesmith]

No, just a knife for an aerial rescue

 

[beastmaster]

No, just a knife for an aerial rescue

There are knifes made just to cut rope, the spyderco harpy comes to mind. It takes a strong sharp knife to quickly cut through rope.

 

[treesmith]

Is there something special about an aerial rescue knife that makes it different from a normal knife?

Sorry should have said this - locking one that can be opened one handed is good, kept round the neck or somewhere equally easily accessible, needs to be razor sharp

 

[beastmaster]

check out this bad boy.

http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=3

 

[pdqdl]

I don't care how cool, hard, or sharp your knife is, if it is coming up against beeline or some of the other tough new synthetic fibers, it is going to be some work cutting it.

Serrated definitely helps, though.