I want in! +1st achievement

[roberthathaway7]

So I'm kind of new to the arborist field. I started up with my first chainsaw, a STIHL 028 haha i know big boy saw right? Anyways I started up cutting firewood off my farm, sticking with storm blown trees and felling simple trees under close supervision of an old veteran. This past winter I systematically had to cut down a 90 foot cottonwood goliath on our place so we could build a new pole barn and land it perfectly to not destroy two other buildings- I did it, and I was hooked. It would take forever to explain how I did it other than saying I started with climbing into the tree, strapping myself in, and cutting down vertical 10-26" diameter branches to distribute the weight of the crown properly, and then plunge cutting the 4ft trunk. I had a bigger saw by this point :greenchainsaw: I literally dropped this tree exactly, as in within 6 inches of where I wanted. I'm not gonna lie, I felt amazing.

Right now I'm 24 years old and trying to finish up college to be a teacher, and I own a property service business including lawn mowing, pressure washing, landscaping, small tree trimming/removal, bush hogging, garden tilling, etc (I also personally sell firewood for winter income). I look forward to being able to pass this business on to my brother in law/partner who is currently wanting to get out of the coal mines, and then working with him in my summer months to pay off those dang student loans. I've always been on my own financially so let me tell you I am racking them up.

At this point, all of that other business is starting to get really boring to me and after completing a few more jobs and playing with/challenging myself with trees as I cut them for firewood seems like it might be sparking a small passion here. And I LOVE to climb. I want a tree climbing set up so bad I can taste it. This could be my new summer/winter break work in the future. I know people always say to work under an experienced tree cutter but I was thinking about taking my time and not taking anything that I don't think I can handle and slowly working my way up, while keeping in communication with a few guys i know in the business. I am getting more and more calls about trees for my business as we get bigger, and I would really like to start taking them.

I have bought and am studying "To Fell A Tree" and the "Tree Climber's Companion" which I'm sure you all know of- excellent books.. And I was wondering if I could start studying for the ISA exam just to learn basically. Is it realistic for me to take it within the next couple years, or is is required that I work under somebody and show qualifications? I just want in!

 

[tree md]

God's honest. You would advance yourself light years by working a year or two under a good climber. I know you think you got the cat by the tail with the accomplishment of doing a large technical take down but it get's much more technical than that. Not trying to take away from what you have done and I admire your enthusiasm. BUT a year or two under a veteran technical climber and you would be so much ahead of the game. You will learn things like log weights and just how far you can go with your ropes and rigging. You will be able to learn how to deal with hairy trees and hairy situations under the supervision of someone who is experienced and teach you how to deal with stuff like that in the most efficient way. You will learn how to take down big trees fast. I have seen a lot of self taught owners. One of the biggest in my town is self taught and he is a yo yo (Nosack). He even had his own TV show. I did a crane job right next to him in an ice storm about three years back and smoked his ass. I learned from pros. I didn't guess and try to figure it out on my own.

 

[roberthathaway7]

Thanks TreeMd, that's what I'm looking for is the straight up talk about it. Are climbers busiest during any particular season of the year? If they are busy during the summer/winter I will be getting a hold of someone around here and seeing if they need an extra hand. I would love to be able to have my own little business 5 years down the road here even if i'm turning down the bigger/technical jobs.

Another question about this.. I realize that most companies have a bucket truck, huge wood chipper, paying workers comp, and all kinds of overhead, but is there any way that I can (5 yrs down the road) get into a niche where I can pick and choose jobs to do by myself/ maybe with one person for a limb dragger and have practically no overhead other than climbing/safety equipment, a chainsaw, and a trailer. Maybe a chipper. Like I said I will be a teacher and have summers/ winters off, and weekends but of course family will have to fit in there somewhere.. anyways I would like to be able to be experienced enough to run a low scale business that would get me outside doing some straight up (safe+quality) work that I enjoy to break the monotony of the never ending high school classroom, and add a little income. Does this work? Would I be able to be the guy who will come to look at a job and if I decide that I can handle it with my equipment, will be a half a day slower but two days cheaper than the guy with all the overhead? -given that i have a reputation of quality work

 

[tree md]

Dude, that is very doable. You have very realistic goals. You can do a lot without the overhead of heavy equipment. Times are kind of slow now but you could have a chipper in a year easily if you work hard and are efficient at it.

Here's the thing, you spent four years getting a college degree. I bet you learned a lot of stuff you didn't even realize at the time, like critical thinking. Same is true with tree work. You can't expect to just jump in there, teach yourself and be an expert. Granted, it is not rocket science but nothing in life is easy. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

If you are serious about it go to work for someone who is an expert and learn. Hopefully you will be as lucky as I have been. I was close to your age when I started out, 21. I got with an older guy who was willing to take the time to teach me. He didn't mind setting on his butt and telling me what to do. I learned so much from that guy. Number one: How to max out my rigging lines and bring down big pieces and sometimes, rig whole trees. I also went with him on every sales call. I learned what the work was worth, how long it took to do it, what was involved in getting big jobs done, survival, SALESMANSHIP!!! I also learned what I could do. How far I could go out on a limb. The characteristics of wood when it is hinged and cut, how to trust my life to another...

Dude, there is so much to learn in this trade... If you want to be a professional it doesn't come easy. You need to put every bit as much time in apprenticeship as you would for a college degree... And it never stops, you have to keep up with the industry. Just like the doctor who has to keep up with the latest news and technology, so does the tree man. I don't know of any professional who doesn't have to study and keep up with the latest techniques and industry standards...

I wish you the best.

 

[jefflovstrom]

You would have to apply to take the exam. There are certain requirements to meet to take it. I say, go for it.
Jeff

 

[roberthathaway7]

Thanks guys you I appreciate the encouragment and advice, you have no idea how good it is to get a little hope from veterans like yourselves

 

[david miller]

i think it 3 year in the field

 

[lxt]

Oh God another..... I want to do tree work guys!! 1st off I doubt the "goliath" you dropped was any thing difficult!!! 2nd the height is probably a little off??? 3rd......you are putting the cart before the horse, get a job and apprentice with someone for 2-4yrs & then you`ll be almost ready with alot more learning to come...

where do these guys come from? they do 1 tree & wanna start a biz or think they can do it???? LOL

stay in school, its alot safer, cleaner & will probably pay you better!!



LXT...............

 

[banshee67]

Oh God another..... I want to do tree work guys!! 1st off I doubt the "goliath" you dropped was any thing difficult!!! 2nd the height is probably a little off??? 3rd......you are putting the cart before the horse, get a job and apprentice with someone for 2-4yrs & then you`ll be almost ready with alot more learning to come...

where do these guys come from? they do 1 tree & wanna start a biz or think they can do it???? LOL

stay in school, its alot safer, cleaner & will probably pay you better!!



LXT...............

so the guy finds a line of work he loves to do and is excited about, wants to learn more about etc, and all you can do is try to cut him down.. ? i dont get it
how did anyone get started climbing, or doing anything for that matter, without taking down that first tree, loving it, and deciding they want to pursue it? the guy is excited about it and wants to do something he enjoys.. you should be encouraging him and/or guiding him with your knowledge, not laughing at him

 

[jefflovstrom]

so the guy finds a line of work he loves to do and is excited about, wants to learn more about etc, and all you can do is try to cut him down.. ? i dont get it
how did anyone get started climbing, or doing anything for that matter, without taking down that first tree, loving it, and deciding they want to pursue it? the guy is excited about it and wants to do something he enjoys.. you should be encouraging him and/or guiding him with your knowledge, not laughing at him

That's lxt!!
Jeff

 

[treemandan]

so the guy finds a line of work he loves to do and is excited about, wants to learn more about etc, and all you can do is try to cut him down.. ?


YES! Absolutely! You got! That's how its done, its protocall yup.

 

[roberthathaway7]

Treeman Dan. First of all, being my first serious tree job that wasn't a straight stick ash, it was nothing to sneeze at especially considering the tree structure and the confines to which I had to drop it. Second- I learned when I was about 5 years old how to use a tape measure and it's not hard to measure a tree when it's laying on the ground. I've seen you do this before, and I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with your indescretionary discouragement other than create some sort of job security (this is a national forum btw, not local) but all you're going to do is piss people off and make them want to do it more so you need to find another plan. I bet you're a 8=D to work for.

My degree will be used, I'll be teaching but I'll have to make something of these summers and winters off and I'm not one to just sit around, not even on the weekends. Plus i'll have about $40,000
in student loans to pay off for the next 20 years

As for anyone else, I don't mind constructive criticism, so bring it if I need it. I always say if I could be talked out of it, it's probably a good thing I was talked out of it.

what's lxt?

 

[NCTREE]

I bet you're a 8=D to work for.

You bet sure is! I worked for the sob

On the other hand you take down one easy tree get a complex and think your a tree guy. The Tree Climbers Companion, and ISA might give you some knowledge to use as a base but it sure as hell ain't gonna keep you alive or from breaking ####. Every situation is different the only way your going to get get good like me:hmm3grin2orange: is to work for someone else where you are exposed to many different scenarios with some ahole breathing down your neck every hip thrusting, limb walking, bowline tying second.

 

[roberthathaway7]

Thanks NCTREE, I didn't mean to make it come across like I thought I was a tree man though.. I more or less did this out of not being able to afford to pay someone to do it and thinking if I took my time I could probably work it out at least until I felt overwhelmed. I actually took the time to call in several experienced people that I knew to come and look at it and see what they thought about my progress and planning because I didn't want screw it up. After going through the process and having a good turn out..well I just liked it. And I have been messing around the farm on simple trees within my skinny little experience boundaries working on leans and things, and I still like it so I feel like I want to learn legit. I know you don't learn squat from books compared to experience and working with a vet, I was just tyring to see what the process is with everything, paperwork and real work.

What I'm trying to say is, I'm no cowboy with this, and I sure don't think I'm a tree man..just have the spark, trying to see if I wanna make a fire. I am looking right now for someone who might want to take me on part time.. sort of hard when I'm running a business myself but I might get some more time in during the winter. Speaking of my business- I have been offered so many tree jobs that I've turned down due to lack of experience it's not even funny. Drives me nuts. Kind of like my boat-wheel belt buckle.

Can anyone tell me if there are "busy seasons" in the industry or is it pretty continuous? I would think spring time/ summer time would be busy with storm clean up, and winter with ice storms?

 

[lxt]

Treeman Dan. First of all, being my first serious tree job that wasn't't a straight stick ash, it was nothing to sneeze at especially considering the tree structure and the confines to which I had to drop it. Second- I learned when I was about 5 years old how to use a tape measure and it's not hard to measure a tree when it's laying on the ground. I've seen you do this before, and I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with your indescretionary discouragement other than create some sort of job security (this is a national forum btw, not local) but all you're going to do is piss people off and make them want to do it more so you need to find another plan. I bet you're a 8=D to work for.

My degree will be used, I'll be teaching but I'll have to make something of these summers and winters off and I'm not one to just sit around, not even on the weekends. Plus i'll have about $40,000
in student loans to pay off for the next 20 years

As for anyone else, I don't mind constructive criticism, so bring it if I need it. I always say if I could be talked out of it, it's probably a good thing I was talked out of it.

what's lxt?

LOL, look sprout....Im not trying to bust your twins! tree work will accomplish that soon enough depending on if you stay in the work???

I really have no plan to discourage you or anyone, I am saying work for someone & learn the trade!!!!!! to many ding dongs drop one tree or remove the 30ft spruce from a ladder & they think they`re tree men!!

your loans are you problem & if you didnt pick the right field that would let you pay em back while paying the bills then that again is your problem.....

heres some constructive criticism for ya......stay in school & get your masters, depending on what your going for??? if your gonna be paying loans for 20yrs + tree work is the wrong field to try to do this especially in this economic climate where any one & everyone is doing tree work for a nickel or a dime.....this trade is on the down swing & when the economy picks up & jobs start being created.......all the bag of crap people who ruined what I have been a part of for well over 20yrs are gonna jump ship!!!

so............now maybe you understand, not that you care???? but I have seen so many slack jawed jack wagons come n go all the while ruining this trade....it pizzes me off...you chose school & now are complaining about it, when I was 18 I chose tree work & am still here.

either way good luck in whatever you do & be safe, LXT is my handle and is an abbreviation's for "league of extraordinary trimmers"




LXT..............

 

[roberthathaway7]

clarity?

noooooooo no, first of all I'm sorry I havent been on the defense since the treemandan incident so no worries, I've just been trying to explain myself. I'm totally down with everyone else's suggestions including yours LXT, sweet name btw.

I want everyone here to know though- I do NOT think i am a tree man! I don't know how to say it any more plain. It seems like everyone thinks I do though. I do not. I have the utmost respect for every man who is a professional at tree work. I understand from the industry-outsider's perspective exactly how complicated, how complex, how intricate, how volatile and how dangerous of work it can be. I don't want to offend anybody by saying I think I can do this today, or in the next two years. For all I know, I could work under somebody for the next 5 years full time and never catch on. All I know is, I would like to try my hand at it. I'm pretty sure you all said that in the beginning. I'll take the advice here and work under somebody for sure.

Oh and about school.. I think people are getting confused on this too. I'm going to be a high school business teacher. No doubt. Being someone who grew up doing everything from climbing trees to catching rattlesnakes and hogging catfish, I HAVE to do something outdoors to keep me balanced. There's always hunting and fishing but if I can find something outside that keeps me on the sane side AND produce some extra income on the side AND is something that I love to do, count me in! I don't care about how much school costs me, I'll make plenty to pay for it and pay the bills, I've never lived a lavish life and never plan to. A little extra would help me pay it faster though and be able to save for my children's education. So i'm not complaining, just planning things out. LXT, I'm legally obligated to get my masters within so many years so no prob there. Probably get it in guidance.

All in all I want to say- utmost and foremost I mean no disrespect for any real tree man, I know I need to learn under someone and not go out galavantin around:greenchainsaw: , I just want to have a side job that I like. Until something comes together, I'll be cuttin up and selling firewood. Thanks again

 

[jefflovstrom]

noooooooo no, first of all I'm sorry I havent been on the defense since the treemandan incident so no worries, I've just been trying to explain myself. I'm totally down with everyone else's suggestions including yours LXT, sweet name btw.

I want everyone here to know though- I do NOT think i am a tree man! I don't know how to say it any more plain. It seems like everyone thinks I do though. I do not. I have the utmost respect for every man who is a professional at tree work. I understand from the industry-outsider's perspective exactly how complicated, how complex, how intricate, how volatile and how dangerous of work it can be. I don't want to offend anybody by saying I think I can do this today, or in the next two years. For all I know, I could work under somebody for the next 5 years full time and never catch on. All I know is, I would like to try my hand at it. I'm pretty sure you all said that in the beginning. I'll take the advice here and work under somebody for sure.

Oh and about school.. I think people are getting confused on this too. I'm going to be a high school business teacher. No doubt. Being someone who grew up doing everything from climbing trees to catching rattlesnakes and hogging catfish, I HAVE to do something outdoors to keep me balanced. There's always hunting and fishing but if I can find something outside that keeps me on the sane side AND produce some extra income on the side AND is something that I love to do, count me in! I don't care about how much school costs me, I'll make plenty to pay for it and pay the bills, I've never lived a lavish life and never plan to. A little extra would help me pay it faster though and be able to save for my children's education. So i'm not complaining, just planning things out. LXT, I'm legally obligated to get my masters within so many years so no prob there. Probably get it in guidance.

All in all I want to say- utmost and foremost I mean no disrespect for any real tree man, I know I need to learn under someone and not go out galavantin around:greenchainsaw: , I just want to have a side job that I like. Until something comes together, I'll be cuttin up and selling firewood. Thanks again

Remember you asked what is LXT?, Ha, your ok man, grow skin and hang.
Jeff

 

[roberthathaway7]

yeah I didn't even realize it was someone's name, I thought it was some random forum slang I didnt know yet haha, sorry again LXT and thanks jeff

 

[rarefish383]

I know most of the advice here is pretty good, so I skipped ahead. The last thing I read you mentioned bucket trucks etc. When we were in bus we had no need for a bucket truck. We had 2 crews and worked in the Bethesda/Chevy Chase and Potomac area of the Washington DC metro area. Our longest ladders were 40 footers, and if that didn't do it, get out the Johnny Ball. We were 99% residential, and the idea of driving a truck on the manicured lawns of our customers was, well, not even an idea. We actually covered whole lawns with burlap to keep saw dust from getting in the grass. We had lots of plywood and wheel barrows. We were not a rinky dink fly by night operation. You might say we were a niche company with a very high end clientel. I was the 4th generation in the family so I didn't have to worry much about finding work.

My advice would be 1 ton dump truck first, chipper, then stump grinder. The rest you get as you need.

This is what I usually say first, but I saved it for last, because you really can't do it first. Get licensed and insured. When I took the test MD had their own Tree Expert Exam, now they use the ISA certifacation test. Good luck, Joe.

 

[tree md]

If I had listened to all the naysayers when I was starting out I would have never got anywhere. I worked for my first teacher for three years before I did my first side job on my own. I went to work for a couple of other mom and pop tree services along the way. They liked to send their climbers up and whittle a tree into small pieces to remove them. That was never my style so we didn't get along. I never saw the point in climbing a tree three times and pitching firewood sticks into the clear. I have always been a use your ropes and take big pieces kind of guy. Anyway, I had a few tell me that I would never make it in the business. Funny, I am still in business and most of them are not. I have far surpassed my original teacher. And he is the type that would be happy for me and proud.

I also went to work for three large tree services with multiple crews and multiple climbers to learn from as well as heavy equipment to learn on (cranes and buckets). That was some very valuable apprenticeship. It's a good idea for any climber to work with the big boys at some point to see how real production is done. Mom and pops are good when you're starting out. You can usually find someone who doesn't mind taking the time to teach you the basics and give you a chance to learn low and slow.