I want to experience kickback

[Jackbnimble]

Yes, and much faster, and have done it although it doesn't look/feel quite as you described it as it's mostly controlled with the throttle, when it goes right it's great, when it goes wrong a low side or high side is very likely. If you are in a more controlled setting, proper safety gear and already have yrs of experience then you have a better chance coming out ok than a rookie trying to experience kickback.
Just as most all of us have learned to drift a car by getting sideways on a dirt rd or in a snow covered parking lot. I understand what the OP is wanting to do, it's just a difficult thing to stage kickback so it's "safe".


I was in about 75% of those crashes.

 

[Jackbnimble]

There isn't a mishap, an accident, an error or penalty, a crash, a blow out, a kickback, a rollover, a fall, a misstep, any kind of a man induced tragedy, a fall off a precipice, a poisoning, a parachute failure, a bowling bowl slippage that crushed toes, a slip with a knife, an untimely discharge of a weapon, a catastrophe, a disaster, a total collapse, a misjudgment, a comedy of errors, any foolish ridiculous retarded sort of cataclysm where I wasn't.

Nor can I make a comment without offending thousands of people simultaneously, all the while simply intending to congratulate or to praise somebody

 

[Ryan'smilling]

I don't advise depending on the brake. It may work, it may not. I use older saws all the time that don't even have a brake. Good balance, sure footedness, saw position, and a good grip are your best defenses. The guy in the video had one, maybe two of these.

Agreed, those are all good practices. I was specifically commenting on your post regarding avoiding injury during a kickback, so assuming that prevention is no longer an option. In that situation, I still think planning on overcoming the force of the kickback is not the the best strategy for avoiding injury.

 

[James Miller]

Who gave you the wise idea of doing a bore cut James lol.
Glad you learned.

You get a pass on that one. I saw a thread on it and decided it would be a useful skill to learn. I know how you love the bore cut though.

 

[Westboastfaller]

I want:

1. Faster cutting performance in normal cuts
2. Better ability to keep going down in the cut if the nose is buried because the bar is not long enough to go all the way through
   
3. To not kill or maim myself

Glad to see your #3 made the list. Not quite as high on the list as I would have liked to see. Haha #1 & #2 are 'all of the same.

Pretty typical around here though.
People will go through obsessive measures to educate themselves on protecting their pistons with no second rate consideration but when it comes to their very own lives some will address their concerns to the people they are most at home with funny enough. So really they don't take it as serious but more of a conversation piece it would appear.

Inertia brake saws: (kick backs)

It's very rare to get a kickback that doesn't engage the inertia brake in relation to kickbacks numbers.
Even then, possibly 9 out of 10 come from objects that move on contact.
Now that's my experience. Kickbacks that don't involve inertia brake activation may be somewhat more frequent with less aggressive cutters and cutter types, lack of hand control ECT.
I couldn't get the same reaction as what Buckin' Billy is doing with my saws. No way! The brake will activate against solid objects unless it barely touches the tip at the furthest point of the tip will this happen, and some! all the stars have to line up
Ifvyou are anticipating the possibly of just that then,
1)
The brake may activate
2) reacting with it (good grip and turn with it) will make a big difference. Sounds like this was the case with @Jonny Quest, page 1. except he didn't see what was about to happen (the possibility)

I don't **** with those 'hand brake only saws'. I started with a 2101 in '89, Creek cleaning then to dry sort bucking with a 42" and a couple of minute crash course on bucking from the log scaler. Those kick backs are scary and you can't forget them when you have 42" of bar coming at you hard right between the eyes.
One of the old retired Fallers on Vancouver Island that I was neighbors to growing up in the '70 & '80's, would tell me the stories and show me all the scares as he started with the first chainsaws.
6 MAJOR cuts in his time. This was walking out with his arm hanging by a thread. Another time with his leg almost off. Another across his guts.
All the fallers still through the eighties would take the brake of because it would get in the way when cuttin' on the push. Very different times!

One of my falling partners last summer missed brushing out a 1" sapling that was growing up against a 4' Cedar. He's in front of it cutting the last bit of the bottom of his Humboldt. Tip catches the sapling and his ported 660, 36" shoots down and cuts right through his falling pants and gives him 3 cuts that totaled 18 stitches just above the knee the inner quad muscle.
He put his compression bandage on and worked out the day.
He would run full house square.
That chain would bite into anything.
The crew boat driver, him and I head to the hospital after work about 40 min away and just as we were getting close we nailed a log and destroyed the bottom leg as I was sleeping across the seats. We get towed in and later brought back by the helicopter. What a day. I go off to another job with the company with a small crew conventional falling and a faller gets killed after just coming back from his Daughter grad.
This year he gets killed too.

Be careful out there.

 

[blsnelling]

Does anyone else cringe every time they see the title of this thread?

 

[1Alpha1]

I know I do.............

 

[Stihl 041S]

Does anyone else cringe every time they see the title of this thread?

Yes.
Good friend at work. His dad. 300 stitches to the face.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Does anyone else cringe every time they see the title of this thread?

No but this is very funny you said that because I start having a chuckle reaction much like what you said about the title of my thread which makes me think about what you said everytime I laugh.
We are wired differently

I think it's great, if nothing else, the thread brings awareness.
As long as he is not messing with the big old saws... which I'm pretty sure it's not but admittedly I don't have a great interest or knowledge of many saws. Personal, I'm for it as long as he test his inertia brake first making sure the brake is off then by letting go of the front handle with the SAW TURNED OFF letting the tip hit a log from waist height OR as well he can test it also with the saw not running by dropping the saw on its belly from 1ft. Inertia brakes work really well. I do rely on them in a lot of ways. they changed our industry and how we are able to do stuff today. Thats a big reason we can get away with just using a 36" bar all day on steep hills with minimal springboarding. Now we can cut the low side blind with one hand hanging from our finger tips using our Spidey sense's all in the name of: "overcoming a falling difficulty"
*Please don't try this at home.
I certainly don't want to bring any false confidence as to say the brake will always go on when it hits a solid tree.
Some examples of personal mistakes as well of others yet to follow ...

 

[RandyMac]

Brad is cringe worthy.

 

[madmarksolomon]

You a can mimic kick back all you want it won’t do you any good. When it happens you won’t be ready for it. Proper saw handling and paying attention to your tip will help you much more in the long run.

 

[Remle]

I think an old gear drive saw with a bow bar and a loop of harvester chain would make a good practice rig.

 

[carrbear]

Here's one man's kickback experience :

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/my-kickback-experience.270943/

 

[mrpotatohead]

Agreed, those are all good practices. I was specifically commenting on your post regarding avoiding injury during a kickback, so assuming that prevention is no longer an option. In that situation, I still think planning on overcoming the force of the kickback is not the the best strategy for avoiding injury.

Maybe I should've been more specific about the prevention aspect? I approach this as if it is going to happen, and always keep a good grip on my saw, and often use gloves that have palms to aid in grip.

Another thing I do is never start a saw with the throttle lock that so many are equipped with, and even are attached to the choke mechanism. If it is part of the choke mechanism I will use the choke to initially start the saw, then it of course tries to start and immediately stalls. Then I make sure to disengage that part throttle lock before starting. It takes a few mow pulls, but I do not want that chain moving until I have both hands on the saw. (Keep in mind that all my larger 55+cc saws are older these days, and do not have a chain brake.)

 

[mrpotatohead]

I agree that those things help, but and that they are a great defense.
I believe that the first thing should be avoidance, not counteracting the effects of kickback, or being on the offensive.
If you can avoid it then you don't have to defend it.

Kind of like the old, saying, and ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? Simply observing your surroundings and not letting it happen is the only 100% guarantee of safety.

 

[chipper1]

Kind of like the old, saying, and ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? Simply observing your surroundings and not letting it happen is the only 100% guarantee of safety.

Yes on the first part, not so sure on the second part. I feel as though I am a pretty observant person, but if I'm not aware of what to look for then I may not be 100% safe. Hidden dangers and dangers we are unaware of will in my mind always keep me from being 100% safe, in those situations what you were saying about stance and body positioning may be of assistance.
I can say I'm not always excited about different pushes for saftey in whatever the industry is, but most times it's there to protect me from a danger that someone else didn't see. I've heard it said it takes a yr to get a years experience, but I'd rather learn from others mistakes as much as possible so it doesn't take me a year to get that persons experience.
I tell people it doesn't take me all day to do 8hrs of work lol. I also tell some customers on a Monday don't worry I haven't dropped a tree on a house all week .

 

[mrpotatohead]

Yes on the first part, not so sure on the second part. I feel as though I am a pretty observant person, but if I'm not aware of what to look for then I may not be 100% safe. Hidden dangers and dangers we are unaware of will in my mind always keep me from being 100% safe, in those situations what you were saying about stance and body positioning may be of assistance.
I can say I'm not always excited about different pushes for saftey in whatever the industry is, but most times it's there to protect me from a danger that someone else didn't see. I've heard it said it takes a yr to get a years experience, but I'd rather learn from others mistakes as much as possible so it doesn't take me a year to get that persons experience.
I tell people it doesn't take me all day to do 8hrs of work lol. I also tell some customers on a Monday don't worry I haven't dropped a tree on a house all week .

Depends on how you look at the second part. If you didn't catch a hidden danger, then it wasn't "observed." It was actually missed, overlooked, or possibly hidden for whatever reason, but it wasn't observed. Then the safe work habit has to be practiced. Cause we can "observe" something, then go ahead and stick a finger right into that saw chain that is turning. (Exaggerated example BTW.) Which is a good reason to not consume alcohol while using a power saw like these safety decals constantly remind us of.

I guess I need to work on my texting conveyance when it comes to thoughts huh? I have always had trouble with that...

 

[rwoods]

A big saw can kill you with impact alone, the little ones can give you quite a bite.
Geardrives can 'walk' out of a binding cut like a torpedo.
Never have any part of you behind a saw, whether it is a little plastic crap saw or a big incher.

This is about the only thing my dad taught me about chain saws. Advice that likely saved my life years later when I was showing off.

I think an old gear drive saw with a bow bar and a loop of harvester chain would make a good practice rig.

Is the gear drive bow saw below good enough for you? Over 35 years ago, kick back sent that saw over my head stiff armed almost pulling me over with it. Busted four knuckles on the hand guard and sent me to the ER for stitches where my hand got between the guard and the saw. Don't believe there is a man on this forum who could have kept the front handle in his grip. The saw was my grandfather's and has been a shelf queen ever since.

Ron

 

[CR888]

Yup the Mac gear drive bow should do the trick. Nice loop of harvester chain with rakers removed. Like hanging onto a palm tree top in a hurricane. Have the ambulance set on speed dile & go for it.

 

[Finnrpm]

I've always said that WOT running chain will not take any hostages!!
And even the pro's get it wrong sometimes.


..... and if the only thing you have to worry afterwards is laundry, you are lucky!!!!
RV