"I wouldn't be too proud of that notch"

[murphy4trees]

The thread title is a direct quote from a friend of mine who runs a big prentice log loader truck. I was dropping this particular tree into the street so I wanted hime there with the truck to make sure it was moved quickly.

He made the statement when he saw me taking some pictures of the notch.

I asked "what's wrong with it"... His reply "it's too big... you just need something to relieve the pressure"

He was right of course, but not 100%... He went on to talk about dropping thousands of trees in logging operations.... there is a big difference between a logger dropping trees in the woods and an arborist dropping A SINGLE TREE in a backyard.

When precision is paramount a deep open face notch is the way to go 95%+ of the time. When precision is not required a very shallow notch will often do... I mean very VERY shallow... even 2-5" deep on a 24-30" dbh tree will work just fine in many cases.

In this case precision wasn't overly important, but I cut a deep face anyhow in order to show a technique I like to use on bigger trees which enables me to more accurately judge the final cut.

By making an initial intentionally high horizontal cut and removing a wedge, I can get a much better look as I Am making the final floor cut and make sure there is no bypass and the cuts are meeting perfectly. The saw operator can see exactly where the bar is at all times.

 

[VTclimber]

Looks like a nice notch to me. I've seen trees go over with very shallow notches (2-3" like you mentioned earlier), but when you are in an urban setting it is better in my opinion to be certain of the direction the tree will take. Sounds like your buddy might be jealous of your saw skills

 

[murphy4trees]

He's not the jealous type.. he's just used to working with loggers... it's a much different game.

 

[treeman82]

Yeah, they want to get the wood out, and we want to keep the wood going where we want it.

 

[Husky372]

Excuse my ignorance just a logger. But it is the length of hinge/holding wood rather than how deep you cut notch that steers tree. Actually the deeper you cut the less length you have. Unless of course it is a really big tree. Just for the record loggers do need to worry about where tree will fall. So as to not damage remaining trees, also to make getting out of woods easier. If tree does go wrong do we have a house to worry about? no. But if alls we do is damage remaining trees we won't be doing it long. Loggers aren't just out there cutting with no regard for forest. Are there hacks? You betcha just as there are hack arborist.

 

[klickitatsacket]

try going to a logging show. They have competitions where they compete to drive a 2" x 2" stake in the ground by felling a log on it at many of them. A lot of the shows will have crooked ars logs for the competition. This skill it takes to compete in this event is very impressive.

 

[Mike Barcaskey]

from a loggers point of view, cutting a shallow notch can save some board feet on the end of the log. Seen some arborist logs that lost close to 18" (notched more than a 1/3 deep) on the end of the log

 

[Gypo Logger]

As far as I can see, there is nothing wrong mechanicaly with your notch. In fact, because it is steep there would be very little if any volume loss since your wedge was out of the taper. Since they measure all logs by the tip dia. there would have been no wastage of wood.
Some people like to find fault with everything, that way it makes them feel superior, but generaly they are full of BS in the case of your logger friend.lol
That you left no dutchmen was the most important factor given the circumstances.
John

 

[Timberjackboy]

loggers

Some peopel think of loggers as a bunch of redneck maniacs who tear apart the woods. When loggers are really highly skilled tradesmen who do quality jobs in getting out timber products while proetecting and managing the forest as the same time. It takes a lot of learning to become a skilled logger who does a qaulity job.

 

[WMTP]

I agree loggers are very skilled people.Making a notch with the face very wide and open does not give adantage just a good conventional notch and using your holding wood right you wont go wrong.Plus loggers better have good aim if they break alot of other trees or worse3 break the timber theyu are falling they wont be working long.

 

[rfwoodvt]

lest we not forget

Lets not forget, as a general rule, the wider the face the longer the tree will remain attached to the stump before the hinge wood breaks. Often times this is the desired effect.

To take it even one step further, a very wide face can actually leave the tree on the stump all the way down.

If you can't afford a bounding, bouncing, flying log butt then perhaps the wide face is what you need and want.

By the same token, generalities are generalities....

 

[JimL]

When i work in the woods I rarely make my notches more than bar deep (around 4-5 inches). Stronger wood the more shallow it is, less fiber pull.

 

[Mike Barcaskey]

4-5 inches deep on a 24+ inch tree, I dont think I could bring myself to do that.

 

[Gypo Logger]

The depth of the undercut can also effect the intended lay of the tree when the tree is otherwise perfectly balanced. Something that can be offset by wedges.
Another consideration in depth of undercut is saw sharpness and therefore reaction time.
Obviously when the undercut is deep, it takes less time to remove the remaining holding wood, especially with a dull or underpowered saw.
Many mistakes and injuries can be directly attributed to a dull saw and cuts that don't meet.
A saw should be able to sever holding wood at least as fast as the tree can fall, except of course in situations of heavy leaners where hearts should be plunged and ears sawn in.
I'm a faller, I'm a bucker, I'm a mean Mutha Phuka.
John

 

[xtremetrees]

I find a small notch usefull when pulling trees over driveways and pavement walkways. Were talking alot of pull enuff to introduce 80% compressed wood.

 

[Shaun Bowler]

I see it as very amusing the comments posted at Murphys.
At first it seems like this guy thinks he has "found the cure for....."
Then I remind myself that this is a forum for sharing experiences, and asking for input.
In regards to the earlier post today about an employee chipping 12 lbs of snow plow equipment. WTF?
However, being an X business owner, just when you think you have seen it all, from employes,i.e. excuses, accidents, etc. something else come up.
I have a question for you Murphy, that we have wanted to ask... about your pitcure.
Are those Ferrets around your neck, or are you a fan of Pipilongstocking?

 

[boo]

x-owner.....
maybe in part by hacking on long hair tree huggers?
ohye, notches. Looks fine. Looked even better when he finished pulling the other block of wood out. Any trouble felling?
Lots of different instances. Maybe try not to fight the physics.
I hired a logger that needed work, no knowlegde of ropes and or rigging was obvious when he KNEW several trees could be fell without ropes.
I told him how he was wrong, he acted like he knew better than I because he was a logger and 3 or 4 years older than me...... all of the 14 trees he "KNEW" would go without a rope... didn't.
I stood back and let him have his way with them while they couldn't hurt anything by going the wrong way, 1 by 1 they pinched back on his bar, jamming him up until I could get a rope in the top to pull clear. (best teacher)
I'm sure he didn't feel very good about himself after the first 5 or 10 jam-ups.
Maybe he didn't understand the importance of a tree going exactly where I wanted it while being next to a multi-million dollar home.
Needless to say.... I didn't let him touch any trees that could cause damage.
I learned that not only was he hard headed.... he was also a crackhead that ended up ripping me off for some climbing gear and ropes that he didn't even know how to use....
I still learn


peace,
another long hair keeper of the trees

 

[Sizzle-Chest]

you're alright doing that to a backyard tree. but if you were logging (which you obviously arent) you couldnt get away with a face like that. Cuts on a log try to save as much wood as possible, and they want the trees to slide off the stump, so they usually do the diagnol cut from the bottom, Humbolt cut. You also end up with a log with a flat end.

 

[Pilsnaman]

When I first looked at the notch my impression was, functional but not great. The more I look at it the better it looks to me, probably because that final cut isn't complete yet. Once the final section was removed I bet that was one nice notch, he should have given a pat on the back and not a comment like that.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Many times I will use a fat hinge with a wide face so the tree/stick goes over slowly and does not damage the turf or hardscape it's being dropped on.

As stated above, this can keep the fibers attatched all the way to horizontal. Then it can be bucked up w/o any blocking underneath.

As for timber yeild on that log, remember what John said about flair. Most of the but end would be trim anyways and not measured in when graded.

I've sold a few logs too, so I would have bored the face of that one since there was a knuckle truck there. Though yarding logs in the qwarm months degrades them substancially.