Insurance

[CwbyClmr]

I have a new company this year and employ one or two part time helpers at an time. My insurance covers up to 5K for injury for one full time employee. I have a safety manual that every employee signs stating that he has been trained in the use of the equipment and that he is ultimately responsible for his own safety. That policy also covers 1 mil in liability for the customers property and my equipment.
Is this enough for a small company?

 

[woodchux]

5k medical is a joke....
But better than nothing [not much]

 

[jonseredbred]

I hope thats in addition to comp and disability benefits.

 

[CwbyClmr]

I haven't checked on prices on workmans comp yet because we are so small, and I don't offer any benefits because I don't have a full time employee as of yet.
Does the "liability waiver" signed with the safety manual carry any weight in court?

 

[Farmer Ferd]

What do you mean by enough? I am a small company. I pay 1,300. a year for 1 mil liability with another 1 mil umbrella. I also pay 1.400 per year for workman's comp which covers myself and any employees I may have. This will increase or decrease ( ha ha) if I get bigger or smaller. Workman's comp for your own piece of mind should be enough for you. What are you worth. I am a small company just myself my wife and a couple part time guys. I have been doing this professionally for 4 1/2 years now. I have never had a lost time accident. lots of little bumps and bruises but that goes with the territory. In this business you cant be too careful. shop around get the best price you can, then bite the bullet. Good luck. safety first.

 

[beaverb01]

I carry 2mil liability and the guys I use on jobs are labeled as "subcontractors." My attorney tells me this makes it their responsibility to provide their own insurance as they are not labeled "employees." I'm incorporated and that insulates personal assets against litigation.

 

[ATH]

I carry 2mil liability and the guys I use on jobs are labeled as "subcontractors." My attorney tells me this makes it their responsibility to provide their own insurance as they are not labeled "employees." I'm incorporated and that insulates personal assets against litigation.

I assume since you have used an attorney to set this up, it is taken care of...so maybe this is more for the benefit of others who want to take that idea and run with it:
MAKE SURE they are really subcontractors. Simply calling somebody a subcontractor doesn't make it so.

For example: if you are the only person they ever "subcontract" for, and they use your equipment, and you dictate the hours they are working, they are an employee.

All parties (except the gvt) like the idea of subcontracting until there is an injury. Then the subcontractor decides that he was really an employee on whom you should have been paying workers comp (making you responsible for his medical bills), then the tax man finds out that you have had employees who you were not witholding taxes for. Now all goes down hill. Quickly.

FYI: I have not been down that road...it's called learning from others' mistakes.

 

[jbw]

be careful

i have a friend with a small tree business who designated his employees as "subs". he was audited and his subs could not show that they were individually insured. he was hit with a hefty workman's comp bill as well as a tax present.

 

[Climb020]

There was a link somewhere on this site as to what the governement concidered to be employees and subs. The main difference that I remember was if your workers do a job according to the way you set forth then they are an employee. Subs. can be told what the end result should be but they have the liberty of doing it anyway that they see fit.

 

[woodchux]

I carry 2mil liability and the guys I use on jobs are labeled as "subcontractors." My attorney tells me this makes it their responsibility to provide their own insurance as they are not labeled "employees." I'm incorporated and that insulates personal assets against litigation.

Everyone here with subs should read your policy! I noticed way in the back of mine that all Subs must be insured with at least the same limits that i carry. Also says the work area must be taped off. And they don't cover damage to, or resulting from power lines. Gotta get that part changed soon.

If you gotta have subs, alot of guys use manpower or workforce temps. They come with WC. You can hire your own helpers through a temp agency. Send them down there, sign em up, then they're covered.

 

[jonseredbred]

I carry 2mil liability and the guys I use on jobs are labeled as "subcontractors." My attorney tells me this makes it their responsibility to provide their own insurance as they are not labeled "employees." I'm incorporated and that insulates personal assets against litigation.

keep dreaming, unless they have a DBA, insurance, workers comp on themselves, thier own equipment (more than saddle and rope) and written subcontract agreements for every individual job, they are not subcontractors.

it is your responsibility to make sure they have insurance. your not 100% insulated as a corp. If you are fraudulantly using so called subs, its breaking the law and no corp protects you from breaking the law.

 

[beaverb01]

Always thought this sounded too good to be true. Glad this came up. I called several insurance cos. today requesting quotes, I'll post their response on this subject asap. Thanks for the responses.

Beaver

 

[DDM]

Are you in the tree business and only pay that for insurance?

What do you mean by enough? I am a small company. I pay 1,300. a year for 1 mil liability with another 1 mil umbrella. I also pay 1.400 per year for workman's comp which covers myself and any employees I may have. This will increase or decrease ( ha ha) if I get bigger or smaller. Workman's comp for your own piece of mind should be enough for you. What are you worth. I am a small company just myself my wife and a couple part time guys. I have been doing this professionally for 4 1/2 years now. I have never had a lost time accident. lots of little bumps and bruises but that goes with the territory. In this business you cant be too careful. shop around get the best price you can, then bite the bullet. Good luck. safety first.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Our WC is 50%. Our ground guys are cheaper. You guys gave great answers so much I think a couple guys are thinking. Good job!
Jeff Lovstrom

 

[CwbyClmr]

Sub Contractors

I do recall as well that my insurance policy states that a "sub contractor" has to give me a copy of his insurance in order for my policy not to cover him. I guess that I have to do some research on WC policies and get one pronto!!!!
We just got hit with a serious ice storm, not as bad as New York but its bad and I'm going to work for an emergency service company as a sub and will have to produce a copy of my insurance for them. Luckily I will be the only one working for them otherwise I would have to carry WC on my employees.
Thanks again guys for keeping us new guys aware and covered on the legal side of the business!!!!!!!!!!

 

[maxburton]

You are required by law to have WC insurance. Your 5k of coverage on your liability does not cover you or your employees. It is for injuries to others as a result of non-negligent actions (negligence is covered by your general amount). Get WC right away! If you don't, and someone gets hurt, it's all over for you. Even if you 1099 them and call them subs now, you would have to prove it in court, and you probably wouldn't be able to, especially if you didn't have copies of their liability certs (which they probably don't have).

 

[B-Edwards]

Your required by law to have W/C when you have a certain number of employees, or at-least here thats the way it is. I know here I'm not required to have it with only 2 employees. I would carry it if I only had 1 employee. Don't be fooled by the agreement you had your (SUBS) sign. The way the law is now if a guy works for you ,you are responsible if he farts wrong. Be careful ,do it right.

 

[beaverb01]

WC in VA

Your required by law to have W/C when you have a certain number of employees, or at-least here thats the way it is. I know here I'm not required to have it with only 2 employees. I would carry it if I only had 1 employee. Don't be fooled by the agreement you had your (SUBS) sign. The way the law is now if a guy works for you ,you are responsible if he farts wrong. Be careful ,do it right.

What I have found out is similar for Va. The law states that you do not need WC until you have more than 2 employees. However, the way everyone is about litigation these days, I'm looking into the options for coverage. Thanks to everyone who threw in their comments on this thread.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

I carry 2mil liability and the guys I use on jobs are labeled as "subcontractors." My attorney tells me this makes it their responsibility to provide their own insurance as they are not labeled "employees." I'm incorporated and that insulates personal assets against litigation.

That would be hard to do in Oregon - though possible.

If I tried that, my own insurance company, will want me to verify that I got insurance certificates from those subcontractors. They have a survey audit every year that takes about 20 minutes. And that's one thing they ask.

As a landscape contractor under the landscape board, or if I was a tree service under the construction board, my subcontractors would probably need to have their state license. It might be on their shoulders, but I'd be hung out to dry if something happened and they didn't have insurance. It would come back to haunt me and my insurance - maybe even my license.

At least in Oregon - I think whose tools they use has something do with it.

 

[beaverb01]

That would be hard to do in Oregon - though possible.

If I tried that, my own insurance company, will want me to verify that I got insurance certificates from those subcontractors. They have a survey audit every year that takes about 20 minutes. And that's one thing they ask.

As a landscape contractor under the landscape board, or if I was a tree service under the construction board, my subcontractors would probably need to have their state license. It might be on their shoulders, but I'd be hung out to dry if something happened and they didn't have insurance. It would come back to haunt me and my insurance - maybe even my license.

At least in Oregon - I think whose tools they use has something do with it.

Those tools are the reason I could not get a temp agency to send me any workers. They said their workers could drag brush and operate a rake, but could not run a saw or feed the chipper. Not much use to me when I'm up in the tree "gettin it done"

Beaver