It almost brought me to tears....

[slowp]

I'll never forget when I was busy opening a road up, and a guy drove up and wanted me to go mark a blowdown that was not blocking a road, so he could get firewood. He wasn't interested in the good sized hemlock that he could back right up to, that was blocking the road. So, the hemlock chunks got rolled over the side of the road. I didn't mark the tree he wanted as it wasn't in the right area.

Just an example from "the other side".

 

[Muffler Bearing]

I'll never forget when I was busy opening a road up, and a guy drove up and wanted me to go mark a blowdown that was not blocking a road, so he could get firewood. He wasn't interested in the good sized hemlock that he could back right up to, that was blocking the road. So, the hemlock chunks got rolled over the side of the road. I didn't mark the tree he wanted as it wasn't in the right area.

Just an example from "the other side".

Well Did You Arrest Him??

 

[slowp]

Well Did You Arrest Him??

Why? He wasn't doing anything wrong.

 

[discounthunter]

Amazing how bystanders with no knowledge of a situation seem to always be able to draw conclusions.

bystander? care to elaberate or do i have to draw a conclusion based on your post?

 

[discounthunter]

Certainly true.

People see things that make no sense and try to figure out who to blame. Sure there is stupidity and corruption, but there always is. I blame oil. The ridiculously cheap and plentiful supply of fossil fuel energy has distorted everything, and the effects extend all through our society, including our economy. Because we've had so much virtually free energy for so long, nobody pays any attention to it - it's invisible - and wasting energy isn't something most even notice. So rather than seeing that wood for the valuable resource it is, they see it instead as an annoyance to be cleaned up. Most people throughout history, and I'm sure many in the world today, would never dream of wasting that.

I suspect many will live to see the day they wish they had the warmth that wood could have provided, but they'll probably be too busy trying to find out who to blame for taking their lives of luxury away - even though the mirror would show them the answer.

Bob, you got what you could, be happy for that - you can't fix everything

who do you think controls the oil? or do you have your own dike in your back yard and are free from government control?

 

[discounthunter]

This is right on. The government, us, has very deep pockets and is a target. All that crew has to do is to be seen dumping a load of wood in your yard, and depending on policy, be in a heap of trouble. Is Official Use Only painted on the side of their pickups? Are you expecting them to take a chance of getting a suspension, or worse, by giving you free wood? Would you take such a risk?

The same types that complain about Government Waste would be the first to report a truck dumping a load of wood in your yard. Delivering wood is not their job. My tax dollars being used for your gain, etc..

so you dont think its a complete waste to destroy good wood? i do believe some places have firewood licenses,why cant this be expanded to pick up wood from clearing projects or from a central yard?

 

[discounthunter]

I'll never forget when I was busy opening a road up, and a guy drove up and wanted me to go mark a blowdown that was not blocking a road, so he could get firewood. He wasn't interested in the good sized hemlock that he could back right up to, that was blocking the road. So, the hemlock chunks got rolled over the side of the road. I didn't mark the tree he wanted as it wasn't in the right area.

Just an example from "the other side".

if he wasnt in the right area he couldnt have the hemlock either,hello. so what your saying is you would have looked away to get the tree blocking the road cleared but not a blowdown on the side of the road. ?

 

[Guido Salvage]

bystander? care to elaberate or do i have to draw a conclusion based on your post?

The OP's profile shows he is in Santa Cruz, CA and yours indicates you are in Ludowici, Ga, a distance of approximately 2500 miles. Since you are literally on the opposite side of the country from where this transpired, I seriously doubt that you have more insight into the situation than Bob95065.

you would think they could set up an open yard where they dump the logs and are free to take/cut. heck,hire people to cut it up and sell it. pure government waste.

From what I understand there was a private contractor performing the work under a contract that they had won. While the government set the terms of the bid and the contract, they are not involved in the day to day affairs at the work site. The contractor was undoubtedly awarded the bid based on having the lowest bid and that bid was determined by the contractor performing the tasks to complete the job in the shortest time period with the least expense.

While others may view the disposal of the trees as waste, the contractor is only viewing them as an obstacle to completing the road on time. For them the simplest and most expedient method is to remove them to an off-site location. From their standpoint it is not economically feasible to do anything other than that.

Would they be better used if they did not go to the dump? I think we all agree that there were other options, but they would probably cost the contractor in terms of time and money. Also, from a liability standpoint they need to keep all non employees off the job site.

While I realize it is easy to blame everything on the "government", sometimes a little analysis will reveal that not to be the case.

 

[Bob95065]

The OP's profile shows he is in Santa Cruz, CA and yours indicates you are in Ludowici, Ga, a distance of approximately 2500 miles. Since you are literally on the opposite side of the country from where this transpired, I seriously doubt that you have more insight into the situation than Bob95065.



From what I understand there was a private contractor performing the work under a contract that they had won. While the government set the terms of the bid and the contract, they are not involved in the day to day affairs at the work site. The contractor was undoubtedly awarded the bid based on having the lowest bid and that bid was determined by the contractor performing the tasks to complete the job in the shortest time period with the least expense.

While others may view the disposal of the trees as waste, the contractor is only viewing them as an obstacle to completing the road on time. For them the simplest and most expedient method is to remove them to an off-site location. From their standpoint it is not economically feasible to do anything other than that.

Would they be better used if they did not go to the dump? I think we all agree that there were other options, but they would probably cost the contractor in terms of time and money. Also, from a liability standpoint they need to keep all non employees off the job site.

While I realize it is easy to blame everything on the "government", sometimes a little analysis will reveal that not to be the case.

Guido, I think you hit the nail on the head. This situation involved a private contractor working for the state. They are interested in building roads not firewood. They left it in place for weeks and I got what I could. I am thankful that I got about 5 cords of free wood with minimal work on my part. I am not whining in any way that I didn't get my fair share. It is sad to me to see really good wood go to waste. My wife thinks I am nuts because I hoard chainsaws and firewood. There is never enough. It's hard to watch wood I can use go in the dumpster.

The foreman on the job site told me that he could be fired if I got hurt in the work area if I went in while they were there. I understand what he is saying. Like another poster said I live in sue-happy California. It's not as bad here as LA but still people see an injury in a work area as an opportunity to get rich at someone else's expense. Never mind that the party sueing was operating their own equipment and they hurt themselves, they will still sue. The laws in this state make no sense to me at all. Did you know that if I leave a firearm accessible in my home and you break in my house and steal my gun and then shoot some one we are both going to prison? As if it were my fault YOU stole my gun and shot someone. Anyway, I'll get back on track...

There are two root causes to this problem: First, the trees were in the way of highway construction. They are there to build a road and they needed to move the wood. Second, they couldn't drop wood off at my place or anyone else's because of fear of lawsuits. I did come out ahead because I loaded my truck level with the roof of the cab six times while the wood was there. In looking back I am surprised how long they left it out before they dumped it. In fact if I didn't have this day job I could have cleaned them out completely.

Another part of the problem may be my personality. I am a mechanical engineer. I know engineers can be quirky - I work with them all day. Part of that is they hate waste and try to optimize things. I am guilty. It's worse when it involved firewood.

To address the government waste thing, I don't think the state had any bearing on what was done with the wood. They may be innocent in this case. I work for a government contractor and when I started 16 years ago I was appalled at the incredible waste they generated on a daily basis. It still bothers me. That's another story.

Thanks for the posts. I love this board.

Bob in Santa Cruz, CA

 

[Fred Wright]

While I agree that no waste is good, Guido makes an important point. This situation involves more than your basic guv'mint bureaucracy.

Those guys out there with the gear have a job to do and they're on a timeline. It's likely their contract mandates the removal of any evidence of their work when they're done. They can't just leave logs behind in the hope that someone with a saw and truck will come along and clean it up.

Granted, situations vary. Your father-in-law might know someone on city council or the state DOT. And you might pass along a fifth of Jim Beam or a cold 12-pack to the crew, get 'em to leave some logs behind at the end of the day. In this case, you keep your word and clean it all up.

It is very easy to sue a municipality. Towns and cities are perennial targets for lawsuits from drunks stumbling on sidewalks to the tin-hat crowd who complain that the street lights outside are causing their veggies to mold. The town ain't gonna leave a load of logs or slash behind after a job. If somebody got injured as a result, he'd call a lawyer and that would be all of that.

Pretty much the same goes for landfills. I don't think any landfill operator allows scavenging these days. Even if it's a fellow with a saw who wants to cut up and load out logs for firewood. The risk of liabilty is simply too great.

 

[Chris-PA]

who do you think controls the oil? or do you have your own dike in your back yard and are free from government control?

The oil is being controlled by the same thing that keeps your beer bottle from giving you beer forever. We passed the world wide maximum rate of oil production some years ago (and we passed the US peak in the early 1970's). Finite things run out - in this case we'll still have oil for a very long time, but we used up the easy-to-get-to, high quality stuff. So the rate of production is falling and the price rising at the same time population and the desire for it is rising.

The government can't do a damn thing about it, other than use force to try to get us a bigger share of what's left. It's less scary to think there's someone controlling this and making it happen rather than recognizing that we have no control over it. Everyone who promises you they can fix peak oil is a fool and/or a liar.

 

[Guido Salvage]

I have a friend that owns a construction company, they specialize in site preparation for major commercial properties. Obviously this often requires the removal of significant amounts of timber and he tries to find a use for it. This is partially due to the fact that his father was a sawmill owner, but I think the more important consideration is economic. If he can sell the timber then he is money ahead, he also owns a recycling company and much of it ends up there to be ground up as mulch. Many localities have tippage fees at the landfill and any opportunity to avoid those puts him money ahead.

While most of his work is in the private sector, being a good environmental steward has paid him economic rewards. In addition to the recycling business, one of his other businesses is wetland banking and mitigation. Thinking outside the box has created business opportunities, jobs as well as income.

 

[discounthunter]

The OP's profile shows he is in Santa Cruz, CA and yours indicates you are in Ludowici, Ga, a distance of approximately 2500 miles. Since you are literally on the opposite side of the country from where this transpired, I seriously doubt that you have more insight into the situation than Bob95065.



From what I understand there was a private contractor performing the work under a contract that they had won. While the government set the terms of the bid and the contract, they are not involved in the day to day affairs at the work site. The contractor was undoubtedly awarded the bid based on having the lowest bid and that bid was determined by the contractor performing the tasks to complete the job in the shortest time period with the least expense.

While others may view the disposal of the trees as waste, the contractor is only viewing them as an obstacle to completing the road on time. For them the simplest and most expedient method is to remove them to an off-site location. From their standpoint it is not economically feasible to do anything other than that.

Would they be better used if they did not go to the dump? I think we all agree that there were other options, but they would probably cost the contractor in terms of time and money. Also, from a liability standpoint they need to keep all non employees off the job site.

While I realize it is easy to blame everything on the "government", sometimes a little analysis will reveal that not to be the case.

sorry must have missed the post about it being a contractor doing this,i could have sworn it the first post the op stated DOT.

 

[K.C.]

Bob, something to consider since if they are clearing Hwy 1 there will probably be more to come down . . . Become a "wood recycler" ! i just got access to about 4 to 5 cords of some 300+ year old valley oak from the contractor that took the trees down. The city did not want to hear the wood was going to the dump, nor did they want to hear it was being converted to firewood. (same city years ago paid big $$ for a Native American to come in and bless an old Giant that came down in a storm many moons ago...) The contracor is giving me access to the wood as long as I don't say I'm going to burn it. He gets points with the city for having it "recycled", the tree huggers leave him alone i get wood and everyone is happy.

 

[Bob95065]

K.C., are you in Santa Cruz? If you are I think I know what development you were working for the wood.

 

[slowp]

if he wasnt in the right area he couldnt have the hemlock either,hello. so what your saying is you would have looked away to get the tree blocking the road cleared but not a blowdown on the side of the road. ?

Goodnesss, you need to realize that the rules are complex and you can't guess as to what they are.

Each wood permit comes with a list of roads. On the road we were on, you CAN take wood that is blocking the road from ditchline to ditchline. That helps keep roads open. The hemlock was good sized, and there was more across the road behind it. More easy wood even if it was hemlock. The wood laying across the road WAS legal to take home.

Or was it lying? English lesson please.

 

[avalancher]

Personally, I can see why contractors are hesitant to hand over firewood or anything else to homeowners. Just a week ago a guy down the road got a local tree company to drop their chippings at the end of the day in his yard, then called them back the next morning to complain about six soda cans left in the chip box. The foreman had to send over a guy with a pitchfork and a rake to sort through the whole pile to look for debris after the guy threatened to call the county and report him for "littering". Foreman told me that the wages he paid that guy for a half a day sorting through the pile would have more than paid the dump fees, and he is never again going to drop chips for anyone. Cant blame him.

 

[rmihalek]

Well, you did the best you could. I had a similar situation occur when a crew was putting in a road for a new YMCA. I drove by the job site on a Thursday and they had hundreds of trees pushed over and the foreman told me they were going to start burying them on Monday.
I took Friday off from work and cut and hauled as much wood as my little Ford Ranger could carry for the next three days. I bet they buried 150-200 large oaks/maples/hickories etc the following week and there was nothing I could do about it. Very sad!

 

[K.C.]

K.C., are you in Santa Cruz? If you are I think I know what development you were working for the wood.

Nope, I'm up in the east bay area. No names in case "they" are reading....

 

[K.C.]

Bob, something to consider since if they are clearing Hwy 1 there will probably be more to come down . . . Become a "wood recycler" ! i just got access to about 4 to 5 cords of some 300+ year old valley oak from the contractor that took the trees down. The city did not want to hear the wood was going to the dump, nor did they want to hear it was being converted to firewood. (same city years ago paid big $$ for a Native American to come in and bless an old Giant that came down in a storm many moons ago...) The contracor is giving me access to the wood as long as I don't say I'm going to burn it. He gets points with the city for having it "recycled", the tree huggers leave him alone i get wood and everyone is happy.

DOH! ... I just re-read what I posted: "... I get wood and everyone is happy" :msp_blushing:. :evilgrin::evilgrin: