Its Electric!

[OM617YOTA]

Thinking on it more, I do wonder just how bad a hacked apart NDB would be, compared to what's already in common usage. It wouldn't be a bomb, nothing would go bang, just the possibility of being a very nasty mess.

We already have several nasty and toxic chemicals in common usage. Lithium batteries create hydrofluoric acid when they burn, and you don't want to be ANYWHERE near that stuff. I'd rather hold the unshielded beta emitter from a NDB in my bare hand for an hour, than take one breath of HF acid. Yet we seem to think of that as an acceptable risk to have in very common usage.

 

[sean donato]

Thinking on it more, I do wonder just how bad a hacked apart NDB would be, compared to what's already in common usage. It wouldn't be a bomb, nothing would go bang, just the possibility of being a very nasty mess.

We already have several nasty and toxic chemicals in common usage. Lithium batteries create hydrofluoric acid when they burn, and you don't want to be ANYWHERE near that stuff. I'd rather hold the unshielded beta emitter from a NDB in my bare hand for an hour, than take one breath of HF acid. Yet we seem to think of that as an acceptable risk to have in very common usage.

From the limited info I've read in the ndb it doesn't pose much of any health risk. It's a very low dose even if shielding were to fail. We're surrounded by many more dangerous things in day to day life.

 

[Backyard Lumberjack]

is this the Electric Thread? seems to be two groups of opinion...

 

[northmanlogging]

ya'll ever read the radioactive boy scout?

dude wanted a nuclear merrit badge, started collecting any and every mildly radioactive thing from smoke detectors to lantern mantels... ended up creating his very own reactor in a greenhouse... which is where things went sideways for him... hes fine, last i heard still alive, and still banned from possesing any radioactive material

not fiction...

 

[OM617YOTA]

Hope he got his merit badge.

If you have an interest in radiation and nuke subjects, one of my favorite YT channels is Radioactive Drew. This was just posted, haven't had time to watch it yet.



Some of his photography and drone work is stunning. Worth watching on a large and hi-res screen.

 

[muddstopper]

Yep, actually elemental sodium, which is classed as a metal compound.

You do realize you get the same or similar reaction using Lithium as you do from sodium? I wonder how many folks have been injured from their cell phone catching on fire in their pocket. And then there are all those electric cars that have caught on fire for no reason. and I wonder why airlines dont want certain lithium battery powered devices on their airplanes. My point being why would one find lithium more acceptable than sodium when the drawbacks are the same.

 

[JRM]

ya'll ever read the radioactive boy scout?

dude wanted a nuclear merrit badge, started collecting any and every mildly radioactive thing from smoke detectors to lantern mantels... ended up creating his very own reactor in a greenhouse... which is where things went sideways for him... hes fine, last i heard still alive, and still banned from possesing any radioactive material

not fiction...

He died several years ago from an overdose I believe.

His mother's home, where he collected all the glow gadgets was deemed a superfund site by the EPA

Seems a little overkill to me.....

Thinking about it more, his mother committed suicide shortly after the EPA bulldozed her home. He sure put her through the ringer.

 

[Bill G]

IMO put the kibosh on high sulfur no. 6 fuel in 2020. Anything still running no. 6 fuel had to put NOx and SOx scrubbers on. Just saying…



They are impressive, aren’t they? There’s still something to be said for the phrase “if it’s not farmed, it’s mined.” I would have loved to see more of the big electric shovels and draglines preserved. Bucyrus’ 3850-B and Marion’s 5960, which would have been the first and second largest electric rope shovels that didn’t have a catastrophic fire that destroyed the lower works of the machine, didn’t work that far from where I grew up, and were more or less the targets of a John Prine song.

The Marion had a fire and was scrapped. The largest which was the Bucyrus "Big Muskie" was scrapped because it was no longer needed. Sad times

 

[catbuster]

I haven't found much regulations on what fuel they burn once out side of ports and in international waters. The eu and us cracked down pretty hard some years ago with the use of low sulfur fuels when coming into Anchorage/ports. Really they should just drop #4 through 6 heavy fuels, but I suspect it would jump shipping costs up quite a bit.

It was impressive to see that drag work, the bucket was huge, I bet you could drive 3 tractor trailers into it side by side with ample room to spare. Action mining used some pretty big manitowoc diesel powered drags, but the electric walking drag bps used made them look small. I'm pretty sure when amfire bought out action mining they scrapped all the drags and replaced them with dozers. I always thought it was a stupid move on their part. Took the dozer twice as long to remove the over burden as a good drag, I'd be more fuel as well.

IMO 2020 - See the link. MGO and VLSFO are acceptable now. IMO (International Maritime Organization) governs shipping. Almost everything oceangoing has an IMO number, and is subject to these regulations.

Draglines weren’t super popular in western Kentucky until later on when the mines got smaller. A lot of it had to do with the ground in Muhlenburg and the surrounding counties, although MB and the areas just east of Crofton around Cadiz along 165 and the WK Parkway were the hot spots. There just wasn’t anything easy to strip, very little topsoil and the rock blasts out in huge chunks even if you do the whole depth in one shot-I learned that building I-69. Peabody was the biggest operator, followed later by the legion of small firms in Sibelco, Patriot Coal, and on and on. There was no need for the super strippers and smaller walking draglines took over chasing smaller, shallower seams followed by 992s, D9/10s and the preferred loading tool of the 2000s, the Hitachi EX25/600 loading 785s. Coal is broadly dead in that area now, the low grade bituminous coal that was mined there is comparatively too plentiful and cheap coming out of the Powder River Basin or the southern tail of the Appalachians in Alabama and Mississippi.

In eastern Kentucky and southern Western Virginia the hollers (colloquial term) were too narrow for the huge machines, at least to start. Underground mines went after the deep seams and then strip mines were usually swipe passes where overburden would get blasted, pushed with big dozers-Cat sent its first preproduction D10 to Harlan-and likely be deposited in valley fills. 994s were a preferred loading tool, 785 and 789 trucks as hauling units. Then came mountaintop removal… That’s where big draglines finally became popular in EKY. Then, coal, even the high grade bituminous coal there, became too expensive to produce, mostly because Pennsylvania could produce it cheaper. PA coal is easier to get to, and wages in PA and KY were similar for a long time courtesy of the UMWA. WV was less unionized for years until KY’s legislature started dismantling them, but it’s far too late to save the industry in the state now. Demand for anthracite/high grade bituminous (coking) coal is low right now, with the steel industry in the US in decline, so there’s less demand to feed coke ovens. Albeit, the market for US anthracite as an export product is rising thanks to sanctions on Russia-but most of the product is still coming from PA from places like Reading Anthracite.

 

[northmanlogging]

Hope he got his merit badge.

If you have an interest in radiation and nuke subjects, one of my favorite YT channels is Radioactive Drew. This was just posted, haven't had time to watch it yet.



Some of his photography and drone work is stunning. Worth watching on a large and hi-res screen.

Sadly no, thing with merit badges, and why I never actually got any, is you have to have an adult sign off on the test... and no adults were around for supervision so?
(I could of been and eagle scout when that meant something, but... spent 2 years trying to get someone to even show up to sign off on the paper work... might be why I have issues relying on other people today?)(and yet another edit... I could also be an ******* and no one likes me?.... nah...)

As for more nuke stuff the Wifey is more interested in that stuff, not much freaks me out, but nuclear stuff freaks me out... what I learned is more or less from her gushing on and on about Chernobyl and 3 mile island Hanford etc etc etc. And I did pay attention in science class, probably the only class in High school I learned anything and none of its useful today lol.

He died several years ago from an overdose I believe.

His mother's home, where he collected all the glow gadgets was deemed a superfund site by the EPA

Seems a little overkill to me.....

Thinking about it more, his mother committed suicide shortly after the EPA bulldozed her home. He sure put her through the ringer.

Well... considering he had a working reactor without any containment and was successfully refining to get stronger and stronger stuff... not a real big surprise it turned into a super fund site.
Kinda sad how it all ended up, really kinda sad how it all started...

 

[OM617YOTA]

@northmanlogging That video I posted wasn't Drew's best, definitely worth your wife's time to look at his other work though.

 

[northmanlogging]

@northmanlogging That video I posted wasn't Drew's best, definitely worth your wife's time to look at his other work though.

"oh yeah radioactive antiques... thats what I"m after"-the War Dept/budget troll/wifey
So if I get cancer and die in the next few years... its yer fault lol

 

[Husky Man]

Granite Falls Sasquatch said:

I could also be an ******* and no one likes me?..


Probably the most accurate post you’ve ever made

You trying to get some credibility back?



Doug

 

[pdqdl]

I could also be an ******* and no one likes me?...

Y'er ok in my book.

I'd like to change your politics, but that's a different issue entirely.

 

[pdqdl]

ya'll ever read the radioactive boy scout?

dude wanted a nuclear merrit badge, started collecting any and every mildly radioactive thing from smoke detectors to lantern mantels... ended up creating his very own reactor in a greenhouse... which is where things went sideways for him... hes fine, last i heard still alive, and still banned from possesing any radioactive material

not fiction...

"Hahn attained Eagle Scout rank shortly after his lab was dismantled.[1]"

"While the incident was not widely publicized initially, it became better known following a 1998 Harper's Magazine article by journalist Ken Silverstein. Hahn was also the subject of Silverstein's 2004 book The Radioactive Boy Scout.[1] As an adult, Hahn served in the United States Navy and United States Marine Corps. He was subsequently treated for mental illness, and his death at age 39 was related to drug and alcohol use."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn

 

[northmanlogging]

Y'er ok in my book.

I'd like to change your politics, but that's a different issue entirely.

eh... many have tried...
I'm still anti corporate scum bag, and pro people, alllllllll people
I think if most folks could get past right vs left rhetoric, we might find out were all more or less after the same goals and ideals, we just get a little blinded by red vs blue, not that the red or the blue talking heads or helping clarify anything... too busy trying to win the next election
When ya think about it, there's really only a couple of sticking points, guns+fetususuuusuus (feed us?) the rest is all for show. Its the politicians that make things like LGBTQABCDEFG rights, or the "war on christianity/whitey bad etc" puff up the minor differences and make it out like the other side is bad for supporting/not supporting their pet issue.

Too bring this more or less back on topic... even the folks that are "anti" electric tools/machines/vehicles, are really only concerned about productivity/battery life/disposal etc. valid concerns, (though I'm pretty sure its mostly just being resistant to change and grasping at any "evidence" that supports their claims... as people will doo)

 

[catbuster]

Chernobyl was the absolute worst case that could happen with nuclear power. A lot of people worked on it, and a lot of those people died because of it. Hard to believe the Soviet official toll was 37.

But yes, I am concerned about the limits of electric equipment compared to current available gear. But, compared to Komatsu’s recent release of a machine that’s comparable to a PC200 that has a hydrogen fuel cell… Electric looks a lot better. (Komatsu fuel cell excavator) I’d love to have a fuel that doesn’t stink like diesel. And, electric drive has proven to me, as far as I’m concerned, to be exceptional to operate. The D6 XE won me over after two hours in the seat.

I get sentimental about my early days when equipment belched black smoke, was loud, and I could tear the engine apart with six crescent wrenches of various sizes, a pair of lineman’s pliers, and a pair of snap ring pliers, but I like not having black smoke in my eyes, air conditioning, suspended undercarriages, short throw joysticks, air ride seats with head rests, and the huge variety of improvements to equipment from the “golden” years to what we have now.

But eventually, its time will come to and end, just like steam, and oxen before them. And ultimately the market will dictate what comes next. I’m just along for the ride with little input like a lot of us. I don’t buy equipment anymore, so no dealer or OEM is interested in what powers their 110,000 pound excavator unless I fork out $700,000.

We will see.

 

[northmanlogging]

Chernobyl was the absolute worst case that could happen with nuclear power. A lot of people worked on it, and a lot of those people died because of it. Hard to believe the Soviet official toll was 37.

But yes, I am concerned about the limits of electric equipment compared to current available gear. But, compared to Komatsu’s recent release of a machine that’s comparable to a PC200 that has a hydrogen fuel cell… Electric looks a lot better. (Komatsu fuel cell excavator) I’d love to have a fuel that doesn’t stink like diesel. And, electric drive has proven to me, as far as I’m concerned, to be exceptional to operate. The D6 XE won me over after two hours in the seat.

I get sentimental about my early days when equipment belched black smoke, was loud, and I could tear the engine apart with six crescent wrenches of various sizes, a pair of lineman’s pliers, and a pair of snap ring pliers, but I like not having black smoke in my eyes, air conditioning, suspended undercarriages, short throw joysticks, air ride seats with head rests, and the huge variety of improvements to equipment from the “golden” years to what we have now.

But eventually, its time will come to and end, just like steam, and oxen before them. And ultimately the market will dictate what comes next. I’m just along for the ride with little input like a lot of us. I don’t buy equipment anymore, so no dealer or OEM is interested in what powers their 110,000 pound excavator unless I fork out $700,000.

We will see.

well, the soviets, much like current russia... seem to have a problem with counting their casualties...

 

[JRM]

Hydrogen seems to be the more likely future for large equipment. JCB is becoming a player in hydrogen tech. Cummins has hydrogen ICE engines and fuel cells on the market with 600+ mile ranges at rated GVW. They are leading the charge on fuel cell storage technology (NPORXX) which will allow for increased range. Generac has generators available, on the market, with fuel cells in a single self contained unit. Hydrogen ICE is the more forgiving tech for the moment being fuel cells are sensitive to dust and vibration and have been somewhat problematic in construction equipment. But like all technology the fuel cell is changing rapidly. We built a generation pilot plant for Hitachi. The scope was to recover hydrogen gas that was vented to atmosphere in a KOH facility and generate electricity using a phosphoric acid fuel cell.The electricity was to be fed back to the KOH plant to offset the large electrical requirements of the KOH process. To give an idea of the scale of the fuel cell, it weighed over 30k lbs. The electricity it initially generated was little more than the equivalent of what the pilot plant used. We were out of there shortly after the project wrapped up and Im not sure how things turned out. This was close to 20 years ago.

 

[northmanlogging]

So, this goes here....
Potentially the worlds largest Lithium reserve found in the United States... So ya'll can maybe calm down about "china" for a wee bit

https://phys.org/news/2023-08-evidence-mcdermitt-caldera-largest-lithium.html