log splitter cylinder question

[Old Goat]

I have an old Yardman splitter that has been to the moon and back a few times. The cylinder started leaking at the shaft seal a few years ago and this year it is to the point that I can not use it unless I keep adding fluid every 5 minutes.

The cylinder on the splitter is a 4" bore with a 2" shaft. I have a new cylinder with a 3 1/2" bore and a 1 1/2" shaft. Both are 24" stroke. What problems would I encounter if I swap out the original cylinder with the smaller one?

The splitter has an 8hp engine and an older 11 or 13 GPM barnes pump.

Here is a picture of the old beast taken a few years ago.

 

[mga]

my first splitter had an 1.5" shaft. my BIL bent it to the point where it was useless.

changed over to a 5" x 2" cylinder. nothing bends that one at all.

it's rather easy to rebuild them and the parts are cheap.

 

[fubar2]

I would think you'd be able to get a new seal for that one, but what do I know.
I'm glad you posted that pic cause I took pics of a store bought one to use as a pattern for the one I made and failed to note what the make was. Sure enough looks like that one. Its nickname is The Spinal Cracker.

 

[biggenius29]

If you have a new cylinder that will be a fit then put it on and give it a try. It will not be as powerfull, but the cycle times will be faster. So depending on the wood you split and your needs you might want to rebuild your old cylinder, or you might end up likeing the smaller one.

 

[blackdiesel]

ive rebuilt several cylinders. that one looks really easy to take apart. get a big wrench on that nut and spin it loose, and pull the shaft out of it. if its like the ones ive done it will have two guides with a seal in the middle of the two or it will just have one guide and one seal. ive seen them both. the guides are not necessary to replace if they are not broken. make sure the inside of the shaft is good and replace the exciter. also check the seal @ the end you took off and replace if necessary.

 

[Old Goat]

ive rebuilt several cylinders. that one looks really easy to take apart. get a big wrench on that nut and spin it loose, and pull the shaft out of it. if its like the ones ive done it will have two guides with a seal in the middle of the two or it will just have one guide and one seal. ive seen them both. the guides are not necessary to replace if they are not broken. make sure the inside of the shaft is good and replace the exciter. also check the seal @ the end you took off and replace if necessary.

I found a large enough pipe wrench today and was only able to get the end nut to turn counter-clockwise about three times without much effort until it stops. It does not seem to thread out. I can turn it clockwise forever but only counter-clockwise about three turns. I am not applying much effort to get it to turn in either direction, but the nut does not seem to screw out more than about 1/16" until it stops.

I have the shaft fully extended, my thinking was that I would have less fluid to deal with when I removed the end. The cylinder is still mounted on the splitter. I have never rebuilt a cylinder before so I am not sure if I am doing this right.

I can pick up another new cylinder the same size for about $75 from a freight claim outlet. It would probably be a Prince or a Lion. As mentioned before I already have the smaller one.

About how much $$ are the new seals and other parts, worse case? This is providing I can figure out how to get the end off. I don't mind putting a new cylinder on this splitter. I have replaced the valve, new hoses and beefed up the wedge over the last few years. The pump was the next thing on the list to get replaced before the ram started leaking. The splitter just dosn't seem to have as much grunt as it use to, but that may be due to the piston seal leaking also. I am up to the experience of learning to rebuild the ram.

The motor is a Tecumseh and is original. I was never a fan of Tecumseh motors until I got this used splitter 13 years ago. The splitter is somewhere between 25 and 30 years old. It always starts by the third pull, even in 10° weather.

I have another splitter, a Troybilt that attaches to my tiller. You remove the tines and the unit bolts up to the PTO / dog clutch. It works well so I am not in a big hurry to get the yardman up and running. Things have slowed down a bit due to the weather so the projects lower down on the list are making their way to the top.

 

[bearings]

I vote for new seals and keep going

I will tell you it would be cheaper to replace the seals in that cylinder. I sell hydraulic seals at my company. It would probally cost $20-$50 for the seals if you installed them your self. Its not to hard. If you dont feel up to the chalange get a quote from someone.

 

[Old Goat]

It looks as if the end nut for lack of a better term is stripped. I can turn it and turn it and not remove it. I had some resistance at about 3 turns out but I have lost that now. I am only getting about 1/16" or less movement in or out. I can not remove the cap, (end nut), nor can I tighten it back in. It was not that tight to start with. It looks as if the threads are stripped. I can't complain, I have been using it heavy for that last 15 years and it was well used when I got it. It looks as if the engine will outlast almost all the original parts.

I am going to look for a new cylinder the same size or larger before I install the smaller 3 1/2" one. I have bought them before and resold them to guys that had the same problem with the threads stripping. If I am lucky I might pick up a new Prince for $75.

I took a closer look at the pump and it appears to have a 1" inlet. I would assume now that the pump is 13.6 or 16 GPM. As a result I think I am going to look for a 5" x 24" cylinder.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

Just an idea...

Did you check if there was a little hole on the side lof the cylinder close to (within 1/2 to 1") the nut....there are cylinders with a non threaded "nut" that have a lock ring coming out of that hole when you turn the nut.....if you turn it the wrong way, the end of the lock ring will follow inside......and will then need some help to get out.....

 

[triptester]

It looks as if the end nut for lack of a better term is stripped. I can turn it and turn it and not remove it. I had some resistance at about 3 turns out but I have lost that now. I am only getting about 1/16" or less movement in or out. I can not remove the cap, (end nut), nor can I tighten it back in. It was not that tight to start with. It looks as if the threads are stripped. I can't complain, I have been using it heavy for that last 15 years and it was well used when I got it. It looks as if the engine will outlast almost all the original parts.

I am going to look for a new cylinder the same size or larger before I install the smaller 3 1/2" one. I have bought them before and resold them to guys that had the same problem with the threads stripping. If I am lucky I might pick up a new Prince for $75.

I took a closer look at the pump and it appears to have a 1" inlet. I would assume now that the pump is 13.6 or 16 GPM. As a result I think I am going to look for a 5" x 24" cylinder.

The way the cylinder and push plate are mounted putting a cylinder larger in O.D. than the original one will require making a new rear attachment point and a new push plate.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I took a closer look at the pump and it appears to have a 1" inlet. I would assume now that the pump is 13.6 or 16 GPM. As a result I think I am going to look for a 5" x 24" cylinder.

I would worry about a 5" cylinder pretzeling your beam if you run into a knot or crotch and run the pressure up.

Try the smaller cylinder and see how it works... you've already got it and it won't hurt to try. You might like the shorter cycle time.

Ian

 

[isaaccarlson]

I would try the smaller one first.

If you don't like it, save it for soft wood and get another 4". Put snap couplers on them and you can swap them out in less than a minute for the wood you are splitting.

 

[Wood Doctor]

"The cylinder on the splitter is a 4" bore with a 2" shaft. I have a new cylinder with a 3 1/2" bore and a 1 1/2" shaft. Both are 24" stroke. What problems would I encounter if I swap out the original cylinder with the smaller one?"
--------------
I agree with Isaac. The cycle time will decrease and you will lose some force. If the Barnes is a 2-stage pump, I imagine it will still give you enough power for the tough stuff. I say use the new one that you already have and try it before buying another.

 

[woodchop]

just an idea...

Did you check if there was a little hole on the side lof the cylinder close to (within 1/2 to 1") the nut....there are cylinders with a non threaded "nut" that have a lock ring coming out of that hole when you turn the nut.....if you turn it the wrong way, the end of the lock ring will follow inside......and will then need some help to get out.....

+1

 

[Old Goat]

Just an idea...

Did you check if there was a little hole on the side lof the cylinder close to (within 1/2 to 1") the nut....there are cylinders with a non threaded "nut" that have a lock ring coming out of that hole when you turn the nut.....if you turn it the wrong way, the end of the lock ring will follow inside......and will then need some help to get out.....

I will need to check this when I get home. I am on the road right now. Due to the weather I didn't make it home last night. I will check it again on Friday.

 

[Old Goat]

The way the cylinder and push plate are mounted putting a cylinder larger in O.D. than the original one will require making a new rear attachment point and a new push plate.

The rear attachment point will not be an issue. The cylinder is held on with two u-bolts and the rear of the cylinder pushes against two pieces of steel that extend above the rail.

The push plate will be the biggest issue to deal with. The beam/rail is actually the fluid tank. The top plate is larger in width and sticks out on both sides about an 1". The push plate has notches on the bottom that ride along the top plate. This keeps everything lined up and prevents undue stress on the u-bolts and shaft.. To remove the push plate I have to unbolt the cylinder and slide it forward to where the push plate touches the wedge. There are two notches in the top plate at that point and the whole cylinder assembly will lift off the rail.

I am going to use the smaller cylinder and build a new push plate that will ride along the rail such as the older one. This should be less work and hassle than trying to cut the old push plate off. I have enough steel laying around for what I need. I will just weld some pieces to the new push plate that will ride along and underneath the edges of the top plate.

I will continue to look for a new cylinder.

Thanks for the comments. I hope I haven't messed up the old cylinder with my attempts to remove the nut. I am famous for breaking bolts by applying just a tad more force. I went easy on the cylinder nut though just for that reason.

 

[archertwo]

Just an idea...

Did you check if there was a little hole on the side lof the cylinder close to (within 1/2 to 1") the nut....there are cylinders with a non threaded "nut" that have a lock ring coming out of that hole when you turn the nut.....if you turn it the wrong way, the end of the lock ring will follow inside......and will then need some help to get out.....

+2

I had the same splitter as you have. It's gone through three engines though in the last 35 years.
I had the local hydraulic guy change the the positioning of the hydraulic fitting in the end of the piston to the side of the piston. To do so he had to dismantle the piston. He did so by removing the retainer (lock) ring to screw out the nut.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

Look for the little rectangular hole in this yellow area, some cyl's can have two lock rings side by side....

 

[Old Goat]

Look for the little rectangular hole in this yellow area, some cyl's can have two lock rings side by side....

I removed the hoses, u-bolts, and rotated the cylinder 180°. I found the slot. It was on the bottom and I could not see it before. As I had feared I did break the lock ring but I was able to get it out and the shaft removed. I am not sure how the lock ring was suppose to be removed but I got it out. It dosn't look new anymore. I am sure it will have to be replaced, can it be replaced?

Before I ask anymore questions about rebuilding this cylinder I guess I should first address a scratch I found on the shaft. It runs the length of the shaft. It looks to be just a surface scratch, but I can just catch my finger nail on it as I drag it across it. Is the shaft toast because of this scratch?

Here are some photos. The scratch does not show up on any of them.

I put the 3 1/2" cylinder on the splitter just to see how it looks. There are holes already drilled for u-bolts to fit the smaller ram. It makes me wonder if this splitter was offered with a smaller ram.

 

[bearings]

Yes you can replace that locking wire! I also sell new ones of them. They are basically just a square or round wire. 1/8 key stock is what ours remind me of. Nothing expensive. You have gone this fare you better check out your local hyd. supply place. If you need some help with the seals just ask. I can tell you about them. I would replace all of them also. Dont try to save a few bucks and have to wonder and fix it again next year. As far as that scratch goes if you asked that local shop for there input. If it wont show up in the pic its probally not that bad.???