Mastermind Meets The MS660

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Mastermind

Mastermind

Work Saw Specialist
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
36,449
Location
Tennessee
Here we go with the rhubarb stuff again... Hey, I got some blueberries ready to pick. You want me to get the wife to make you a cobbler?

Oh hell yes. :rock:

I changed it because Will is not a hillbilly. I have modded over 2000 saws now and I do agree trial and error is important in perfecting a design. I am very pompous when it comes to physics and misconceptions because most clowns stick by their beliefs. Will backed down and admitted he jumped the gun. That is admirable and he is welcome here in August to eat steak and drink cold beer during our loggersports. I am trying to become a less arrogant person but it is difficult sometimes.

Admitting there's a problem is the first step. :msp_thumbup:
 
Tzed250

Tzed250

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Jul 23, 2002
Messages
7,025
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West Virginia
When I made the post about the piston crown it was not meant to disparage anyone. Anyone who thinks they are going to hold information at bay in the age of the world wide web is delusional. The info can be found. Some will share it freely, and some will impede it.

BTW, since I live in West Virginia, I'll be the judge of who is a hillbilly and who isn't.
 
Simonizer

Simonizer

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Campbell River B.C.
I'm a mechanic and I take great offense to that. Since these days you actually have to be pretty smart if you want to keep up with the automotive business. Good day!!
I am a journeyman mechanic too Will. My dad told me to get a trade if I wanted to be a good engineer. I did both. Burned myself, cut myself, paid my dues. I have been pulling wrenches for 25 years. Please don't take offense.
 
morgaj1

morgaj1

ArboristSite Operative
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Jul 6, 2008
Messages
474
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AL
True, the more surface area the better. But from what I've seen, I can't tell much difference between flat or tapered. But ya never know till u try. Give her a whirl. :)

To my simple mind, as long as your not getting crazy carbon spots on the crown, and are showing good flow patterns from the transfers to the chamber, then your good to go. I've pretty much given up on using popups, cause every one I've done has had bad carbon problems, and terrible flow patterns.

Where was the carbon buildup? Do you think that the dome shaped impeded the flame front causing incomplete combustion?

I have been working on 4-stroke engines forever, mostly motorcycles. But, recently have really gotten into 2-stroke theory. They seem simple at first, due to the lack of moving parts compared to a 4-stroke. However, the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.
 
wigglesworth

wigglesworth

Booned
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,175
Location
West kentucky
Where was the carbon buildup? Do you think that the dome shaped impeded the flame front causing incomplete combustion?

I have been working on 4-stroke engines forever, mostly motorcycles. But, recently have really gotten into 2-stroke theory. They seem simple at first, due to the lack of moving parts compared to a 4-stroke. However, the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.

I'm with ya. The more I think I know, the more I realize I don't know squat.

I've tried several different shapes and sizes of popups, also done welded(which is the only way I will do one now) and even with the best finish, no sharp angles, and mirror polished, they will still leave carbon on the edges, and show signs of flow disruption from the transfers. It's just the nature of the beast with a popup.

I'm definitely not saying that popups are bad, as some of the strongest saws out there have em. I just "personally" think that cutting the chamber is the better way, when it's possible.

Here is the last one I did. It's a welded popup for a 346NE.

57ceb7ce.jpg


And here it is after a couple tanks of Klotz super techniplate. Nastiest oil I've ever used. This was at 40:1 with non ethanol fuel too. Ignore the massive amounts of carbon, as its not normally that bad, but look at the flow pattern from the transfers.

0300561c.jpg
 
Mastermind

Mastermind

Work Saw Specialist
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
36,449
Location
Tennessee
Where was the carbon buildup? Do you think that the dome shaped impeded the flame front causing incomplete combustion?

I have been working on 4-stroke engines forever, mostly motorcycles. But, recently have really gotten into 2-stroke theory. They seem simple at first, due to the lack of moving parts compared to a 4-stroke. However, the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.[/QUOTE]


Me too......


I'm with ya. The more I think I know, the more I realize I don't know squat.

I've tried several different shapes and sizes of popups, also done welded(which is the only way I will do one now) and even with the best finish, no sharp angles, and mirror polished, they will still leave carbon on the edges, and show signs of flow disruption from the transfers. It's just the nature of the beast with a popup.

I'm definitely not saying that popups are bad, as some of the strongest saws out there have em. I just "personally" think that cutting the chamber is the better way, when it's possible.

Here is the last one I did. It's a welded popup for a 346NE.

57ceb7ce.jpg


And here it is after a couple tanks of Klotz super techniplate. Nastiest oil I've ever used. This was at 40:1 with non ethanol fuel too. Ignore the massive amounts of carbon, as its not normally that bad, but look at the flow pattern from the transfers.

0300561c.jpg

Dang J that Klotz is some nasty stuff...
 
blsnelling
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
53,727
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Franklin, OH
And here it is after a couple tanks of Klotz super techniplate. Nastiest oil I've ever used. This was at 40:1 with non ethanol fuel too. Ignore the massive amounts of carbon, as its not normally that bad, but look at the flow pattern from the transfers.

I don't see the problem. I see nice even swirls coming from each of the four transfer ports.
 
mt.stalker

mt.stalker

ArboristSite Guru
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Mar 4, 2007
Messages
933
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upstate, n.y.
Where was the carbon buildup? Do you think that the dome shaped impeded the flame front causing incomplete combustion?

I have been working on 4-stroke engines forever, mostly motorcycles. But, recently have really gotten into 2-stroke theory. They seem simple at first, due to the lack of moving parts compared to a 4-stroke. However, the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.[/QUOTE]


Me too......




Dang J that Klotz is some nasty stuff...

So , are you saying that the Bel Ray (hr1)? oil burns cleaner than this ???
 

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