New from North Carolina seeking battery chainsaw recommendations.

[mudrat2]

I have a MSA 160 that has become my go to saw. About 12 yrs now. Very handy and I get 45 - 60 minuits of actual cutting time on the original battery, more on a newer higher capacity battery. Remember that is actual trigger pulled running time, not walking around moving stuff, setting up for the next cut, etc.

Most of my cutting is 12" or under. For the bigger stuff I have an old 026 and I have a 36" bar I can put on for the really big stuff I come across every few years.

I would stay away from Greenworks, from personal experience. Support for their older stuff is non-existant. Changed their battery platform and dropped all support for the prior style. Basically told to buy new. New saw, new battery, new charger. That is when the 160 was bought. Can still get batteries and parts if needed.

 

[oldbuzzard]

I guess I don’t pay any attention to chain speed, just how it cuts. I run a crew of volunteer sawyers, mostly all retired. Some are ok as sawyers, but have no idea how to treat their equipment. Most have one gas saw, usually 50-60cc, and the Husky as a back up. A couple of weeks ago one of them was bucking a 28” tree with the 350i when he couldn’t get his gas saw started. I thought sure he was going to smoke that little battery saw but it lived through it. I always own 25-30 working saws (bad CAD) and the 350i is my first choice for many jobs, like taking out Russian Olives, an invasive species.

 

[Seachaser]

Milwaukee M18 is what I have, mainly because I have a few dozen M18 powered tools in the garage. I use is sparingly around the house/yard, but I've been pleasantly surprised by it.

Yep! It cuts above its pay grade. It has made me rethink my attitude on battery operated saws.

 

[Seachaser]

The battery pole saws are lighter, up in the air.

Philbert

Sure is. I have both.

 

[kendalltristan]

I reached out to Stihl with some clarification questions on the MSA 220 C-B so I guess we'll see what they come back with. Mostly I'm interested in the expected performance degradation and battery life implications associated with running an 18" bar on it as compared to a 16" bar. And not that I would need to run an 18" bar on it all the time, but I do find a 16" bar to be a bit lacking in a number of cutting situations.

The MSA 220 just really seems to hit the high points that I'm going for: it's compact and lightweight with a higher chain speed than my Ryobi. And as best as I can tell, two of the AP 500 S batteries should cover 99% of my cutting situations without any problems. Also, one of the organizations I volunteer with already has some Stihl equipment, which makes it easy to borrow additional batteries (or their MSA 300) for that last 1%.

There are other considerations as well. For instance, it seems I can barely walk down the block without tripping over a Stihl dealer. There are nine within a half hour's drive of my house, plus another just a few miles from where I do most of my trail maintenance. And when I inevitably decide to move to a newer saw, the aforementioned volunteer organization will be glad to have it.

The cost is a bit of a bummer, but I had already established an all-in budget of around $1500 before initially posting here. Getting the saw, charger, two batteries, and an 18" bar and chain will only push me $30-40 past that after sales tax.

---

Regarding the Husqvarna 350i, the low chain speed gives me pause and, perhaps interestingly, the most cost-effective way into the ecosystem right now would be to buy multiple 350i kits, keep the batteries, and then sell the extra saws and chargers by themselves on eBay. Not that that's a deal breaker in and of itself, especially given my budget, but it is a consideration. Also, the currently discounted price makes me think there's something new on the horizon.

Regarding Greenworks Commercial, the biggest thing that gives me concern is that basically every model is out of stock except in one or two places I really had to dig to find. Combined with a much smaller dealer network and some horror stories about their support, I'm just not sure I would want to do the warranty dance with them if it came down to it.

Regarding Milwaukee, another volunteer organization I do a lot of work with has their products, and the majority of them are quite nice, but I can't get over the fact that my Ryobi has out-cut every Milwaukee saw that I've tried. And it hasn't exactly been close either. I'd rather keep the Ryobi than risk that kind of performance hit. And the "comparable" Milwaukee saws haven't been smaller or lighter either.

Regarding others, nothing else really jumps off the page at me. There are too many questions regarding cutting performance, size, and weight for me to feel comfortable moving forward with any of them. Also there are concerns about the warranty and support; I'm not looking for a "forever" saw but I'm not looking for consumer-grade throwaway stuff either. Perhaps things will be different in a year or two, but most of what I'm seeing looks to be a lateral move at best, which I'm not looking for. Unless there's a notable improvement in either performance or weight without a significant hit in the other, I'm just not interested.

---

Thanks a bunch, everyone, for the recommendations and the discussion. This site seems pretty cool, so I'll probably stick around to some degree. Cheers!

 

[Philbert]

Mostly I'm interested in the expected performance degradation and battery life implications associated with running an 18" bar on it as compared to a 16" bar. And not that I would need to run an 18" bar on it all the time, but I do find a 16" bar to be a bit lacking in a number of cutting situations.

Have we discussed skip tooth for the longer bar?

Philbert

 

[kendalltristan]

Have we discussed skip tooth for the longer bar?

I was under the assumption that 18" was perhaps a bit too short for a skip tooth chain, but I've been wrong plenty of times before. I'm happy to hear suggestions. Thanks.

Anyway, the response from Stihl:

Thank you for contacting STIHL USA.

Regarding the STIHL MSA 220 C-B :

STIHL Light 04 18" 3/8" PICCO .043 Gauge 61 Links Part Number 3005 000 4417
with a PICCO Super 3 (61 PS3 61) PN 3699 005 0061 Chain.

There is no impact in terms of performance, the general principle is :
Longer Bar, Smoother Cut. Shorter Bar, more applicable bhp on the cut.

Another option would be to use a 16" bar, but thicker Gauge, and pair it with a more aggressive Chain, i.e. :

STIHL Rollomatic E 16" 3/8" PICCO .050 Gauge 55 Links PN 3005 000 4813
with a PICCO Super (63 PS 55) PN 3617 005 0055 (Yellow Label, aggressive)
(also works with STIHL Rollomatic®E Light 16" 3/8" P .050 G 55 PN 3005 000 7413)

...

 

[Philbert]

Skip tooth chains are primarily used for a few reasons:

1. Longer bar than a saw normally pulls (only 2/3 the number of cutters in the cut, compared to a full composition chain).

2. Help carry / clear chips on longer bars in bigger wood (typically, 24” or longer).

3. Lazy sawyers who want to file fewer teeth.

I’ve had skip tooth, 3/8”, low profile chain come standard on cheap pole pruners (10” guide bars). Lots of SEARS chainsaws too (so they could sell a 40cc saw with an 18” bar).

Might be harder to find skip sequence on smaller pitch chains used on some battery saws. Maybe by special order? Would have to look into it.

There are also ways to make chains (spinner and breaker), or modify them (‘cowboy skip tooth’) that guys on this forum have done.

Philbert

 

[IntegrityCarpentry]

I was under the assumption that 18" was perhaps a bit too short for a skip tooth chain, but I've been wrong plenty of times before. I'm happy to hear suggestions. Thanks.

Anyway, the response from Stihl:

I would definitely also suggest skip chain.

I would not go with with wider gauge chain as stihl is suggesting, that would be more load on the saw.

Philbert is very wise in suggesting the skip chain.

I would add my 2 cents about chain speed. The husqvarna also has slower chain speed than the Milwaukee, which you have used. With the higher torque but lower chain speed the only way to take advantage of it is to file rakers down more. I am hoping one day I can convert my Milwaukee to .325 pitch low pro.

Your gut instinct is right on chain speed. It gets you done quicker as long as the saw has the power with it.

 

[kendalltristan]

@Philbert @IntegrityCarpentry Thanks a bunch, guys. That info is immensely helpful. I really appreciate it.

 

[Hermio]

Hello, I'm Kendall from Hendersonville, North Carolina. Professionally I work as a software developer, but I try to get out in the woods to do volunteer trail maintenance at least once or twice each month (sometimes quite a bit more). I have a B chainsaw certification and feel confident working in fairly complex situations. I'll go for C when I feel more confident about the instruction/evaluation side of things. I'm also crosscut certified. Most of the tree work I do is limited to bucking blowdowns and I don't really ever have a need to fell anything.

The trails I maintain are steep and technical. As such, choosing the right tool for the job is often more a function of how much effort it'd take to get the tool and PPE to the work site than it is of how much work there is to do once there. I prefer battery chainsaws over gas due to size, weight, reduced noise, and the lack of a spillage risk, but, often as not, I'll leave the chainsaw and chaps in the car and carry a Silky Katanaboy instead.

I've started to become a little bit of an axe nerd. I've restored and rehung a couple of old heads I picked up at yard sales, which I've since given away. I also like a lot of the newer stuff that I've tried and my current number one is a Tuatahi camp axe on a 24" Hoffman handle. I also have a Hults Bruk Agdor that's fabulous to use, as well as some Council Tool stuff.

I mostly came here to get recommendations for a new battery saw. I've been using this Ryobi for the past ~3 years and, while it does a pretty good job for what I need, a lot of new stuff has come out in that time. If I can get something that'll give me a marked improvement in regards to either weight, power, or runtime without adversely affecting the other variables, I'm all ears. Doubly so if the rest of the product ecosystem looks to be good. For example, the Ryobi hedge trimmer I have is pretty weak, so I'd be happy to move to another brand with better hedge trimmers.

It's important to me to have an 18" bar. I never feel like I have quite enough reach with a 16" and, while I don't mind a 20", I don't find it necessary either. I was looking at the Husqvarna 350i and the Stihl MSA 220 (the MSA 300 is too heavy and too expensive). I'm happy to consider other options as well. Input is greatly appreciated, and if I need to post this in another forum for better visibility, just let me know. Thanks!

I have not used other brands, but I am relatively satisfied with the Kobalt 80 volt saw. It has an 18" bar. It does not cut very fast, but it has enough torque to bury the bar in hardwood. The main reason we chose Kobalt is for battery compatibility among several other tools.

 

[kendalltristan]

Might be harder to find skip sequence on smaller pitch chains used on some battery saws. Maybe by special order? Would have to look into it.

There are also ways to make chains (spinner and breaker), or modify them (‘cowboy skip tooth’) that guys on this forum have done.

Yeah, I've been looking pretty hard and am coming up dry. Part of the appeal of Stihl is that I should be able to take advantage of the dealer network and get an off-the-shelf chain and other parts when necessary. I found a couple of places online that offer custom chains. Perhaps this evening I'll reach out to see if they'll do low-pro full-skip.

I would not go with with wider gauge chain as stihl is suggesting, that would be more load on the saw.

I'm getting some mixed information as to what exactly is the stock setup and what would be wide or narrow as compared to it. For instance, on the Stihl USA website in the features section, it says it uses the PM3 chain, but in the specifications it says it uses the Picco Super, or PS chain. I think the latter has to be wrong as I'd find it hard to believe they'd put a PS on a battery saw by default, but they could mean the Super 3 (PS3). If I have time at lunch, I'll swing by the nearest Stihl dealer and try to nail this down.

Your gut instinct is right on chain speed. It gets you done quicker as long as the saw has the power with it.

Yeah, that's what I'm discovering. If I think back to the most positive, enjoyable cutting experiences I've had, when I cross reference the saw model I was using at the time, they're all saws with relatively high chain speeds. So I think a low chain speed is a deal breaker for me, simply as a matter of preference. And thanks a bunch, I really appreciate the input.

 

[Riverrail]

You will not regret getting the Stihl Msa220. I have it with the 050 PS3 chain on a 16 inch bar with 300s batteries. It surprises me how long the 300s battery lasts. I seldom switch to the spare during an outing. It will bite more than it has power for if you let it. You lose about 2 inches of official bar length on it, but the 16 has let me cut bigger stuff when I didn’t want to fire up a gas saw for a few cuts. I have an 18 inch bar available, but have never felt the need to use it on this saw. Full tank of oil and ready to cut it weighs in at 12 lb 11 oz.
I have an early model Ryobi 18v saw as well. Bought it on clearance for a laugh as a loaner. It came with an 043 skip chain and chain speed was slow. It was very grabby and as such felt rather unsafe to use. I put a Stihl 043 ps3 chain and it was much smoother/ not grabby but still a slow cut.

 

[Riverrail]

I should add, chain speed seems to be right up in the same ball park as my 241, 261’s, etc.

 

[gregozedobe]

I think I read somewhere that it was possible to increase the performance of Ryobi battery chainsaws by fitting them with a narrower kerf chain - 1/4" ? It involved fitting a different sprocket, bar and chain. As you already have a Ryobi it might be worth investigating that as a low budget option...

 

[kendalltristan]

I think I read somewhere that it was possible to increase the performance of Ryobi battery chainsaws by fitting them with a narrower kerf chain - 1/4" ? It involved fitting a different sprocket, bar and chain. As you already have a Ryobi it might be worth investigating that as a low budget option...

Interesting. Do you happen to know where you may have read it? A cursory web search didn't turn up anything useful for me. Either way, thanks for the suggestion.

 

[gregozedobe]

Interesting. Do you happen to know where you may have read it? A cursory web search didn't turn up anything useful for me. Either way, thanks for the suggestion.

Sorry, it was my imperfect memory confusing things. I remembered the conversion correctly, but mixed up brands (see below for an explanation).

It was actually an ECHO 2500T that two different people had converted from 3/8"LP to 1/4" chains with (they claim) better performance due to the narrower kerf. I got the impression this was a fairly common conversion. Conversion sprockets were from https://monkeybeaver.com/product/1-4-drive-sprockets/ if your Ryobi doesn't have the brake drum built into the sprocket then the Makita sprocket may work (or not, I can't say for sure). Ripsaw also sell conversion kits.

Here are a couple of videos about the 3/8"LP to 1/4" chain conversion:



It might be worth your while doing more research on 1/4" chains on battery saws before spending any money. Common comments seem to be: Faster cuts, smoother (less vibration), don't last as well, less robust.

I was looking at the Echo because it has the same sprocket with drum as my Ryobi 36V saw, and as Ryobi no longer supply sprockets for my saw I was looking at other brands that seemed to use the same sprocket so I could buy some spares. Ryobi and Echo are both owned by TTI (who also share parts with Milwaukee, AEG, Ridgid, Homelite and several other brands). The 10mm diameter (with 8mm flats) drive shaft seems to be common on many small battery saws, but most don't have the brake drum attached to the sprocket like mine).

I hope this helps, and let us know what you and up doing and how well it works for you.

 

[Philbert]

1/4” pitch and .325 ‘Nano’ chains may extend battery life, but do not have much ‘meat’ on them. Wear / sharpen away quickly.

Did some side-by-side testing with 3/8” low profile (Oregon Type 91) and 3/8” low profile/ narrow kerf (Oregon Type 90) chains.

They all cut, and I would use anyone of them. But, considering cutting speed, chain life, availability, etc., I would select one of the 3/8” chains, given the choice.

Philbert

 

[kendalltristan]

@gregozedobe Thanks a bunch for the information. I think I'm going to leave the Ryobi the way it is and go the route of getting another saw. I have some concerns regarding reliability and parts availability and would rather keep any changes to just bars and chains that don't require me to limit my options to a single retailer. Also I just don't know enough about chainsaws to feel comfortable performing those kinds of modifications. I'm sure I'll get to that point eventually, but for now I'd rather keep it relatively simple.

@Philbert Good to know. Thanks!

 

[gregozedobe]

@kendalltristan No problem, modifying always involves an assessment of costs & risks vs benefits so only do what you are comfortable with.

CORRECTION: I gave the wrong diameter for the sprocket shaft, it should have read "The 10mm [not 9mm] diameter (with 8mm flats) drive shaft seems to be common on many small battery saws, but most don't have the brake drum attached to the sprocket like mine)."

As Ryobi cannot supply a sprocket for my Ryobi battery chainsaw I ordered one for an AEG battery chainsaw that had the same part No (612309002). It arrived today, and seems to be the same as the one on my saw -Result !