New spur climber

[cairologger]

Good afernoon all,

I've been buying climbing gear for 6 mouths or so and tried my first tree yesterday and had a few problems I thought I would run by y'all. The tree was a pine 36" diam. , the first thing was my prusik on my flip line was to long and was right at the trunk, I had made it up myself and had some shorter ones with me( I made them with 3/8 yellow 7000 lbs cord. I made it into a loop joined with double fisherman knots) I installed a shorter one with a 6 coil prusik on the treemaster 3 strand flip line and I used a girth hitch at the carabiner. Is this prusik set up ok?????? The first problem when I got in the tree was my saddle felt like it wanted to to keep sliding down on me (is suspenders the answer to this?), my saddle is a Weaver extra wide back double d ring 6 lbs plus my other junk, second problem was my prusik would tighten up so tight on the flip line that I would have to take all the weight off of it and work it some to loosen it up before I could adjust the line. Is 4 coils rather than 6 the answer for this or a diffrent friction hitch? I'm 6'2" and 225# I did'nt thing I was puttting that much pressure on the hitch.

Thanks, Jake

 

[Jeffsaw]

My only suggestion would be to start climbing on smaller diameter trees if possible. I can't comment on your set-up as mine is very different. Also, remember the saying "start low and slow".

 

[tree md]

To tell the truth, on 36" trees I'm shooting a line in them and forgoing the lanyard altogether until it's time to make a cut...

Learn how to set your lines wisely, tend slack and friction and leave the lanyard alone. Set a line high and central, get loose and set yourself free,

 

[tree md]

Oh, and on your question, girth hitched should be fine and I would imagine 6 coils is a bit much for a hip prussic, depending on what size cordage you're using. 5 coils or combination coils and braids is all I've ever used in any climbing system I have used in the past 20 years.

 

[cairologger]

Thank's for the replies, I live in south ga and 36" trees are so common I guess I don't think of it as being large. Tonight i'm going to try a smaller one (24") and I read that an arms length is the proper distance to have your chest from the tree, is that about right??

 

[cairologger]

I'm gonna give y'all an update on my climbing, last night I thought I would practice climbing a 24" diam. power pole that was down at the barn, I got my belt and flip line on ( the 4 coil prusik fixed the problem with the prusik locking up, I guess 6 was to many) spurs on, and jumped on that pole with my right spur (2 5/8 climb right) and it almost bounced off, that thing wound'nt go in 1/4". Are the new green colored poles that hard or do I need pole spikes to practice climbing this pole???????? Help me please. I'm going down in the woods tonight and find me a 24" pine and try that. What length do y'all use on big pines?

 

[fearofpavement]

Poles and trees while of the same origin need different spikes. Pole spikes are short as they don't penetrate very far and for those thick barked pines the spikes you have should be fine. You can use pole spikes on some hard barked trees but in most cases trees require longer ones. So your experience on the pole is not unusual. You can climb a pole with longer spikes but not very well, and you can't really climb a soft bark tree with pole spikes. So you have to have the right tools for the job. If you want a pair of pole spikes for any reason, I have an extra pair (just the irons) that I would send to you for cheap.

 

[Workboot]

You know you are potentially damaging these live trees with your gaffs right?

 

[Hank Chinaski]

You know you are potentially damaging these live trees with your gaffs right?

wait till you see what he does to them with his saw and stump grinder...

 

[cairologger]

Poles and trees while of the same origin need different spikes. Pole spikes are short as they don't penetrate very far and for those thick barked pines the spikes you have should be fine. You can use pole spikes on some hard barked trees but in most cases trees require longer ones. So your experience on the pole is not unusual. You can climb a pole with longer spikes but not very well, and you can't really climb a soft bark tree with pole spikes. So you have to have the right tools for the job. If you want a pair of pole spikes for any reason, I have an extra pair (just the irons) that I would send to you for cheap.

Thank's for the reply, I have ordered the pole gaffs from Treestuff. I'm having a hard time getting up on the spikes and moving up, it killing my legs. My wife was watching me and said she thought I was taking to large a step. How far should i be stepping????? I'm 6'2" 225lbs. She said me being 51 might have something to do with it! I thought I was in good shape, but the spurs are teaching me otherwise..

 

[cairologger]

You know you are potentially damaging these live trees with your gaffs right?

Yep, only climbing trees marked for take down.

 

[Workboot]

I'm not trying to harp on you or anything but if you are just climbing for recreation anyways you should look into buying ascenders instead of gaffs. You will probably save some money (good ascenders are cheaper than good climbing spikes) and have more fun. Plus you won't have to worry about damaging the tree.

 

[beowulf343]

The first problem when I got in the tree was my saddle felt like it wanted to to keep sliding down on me (is suspenders the answer to this?), my saddle is a Weaver extra wide back double d ring 6 lbs plus my other junk

Hey jake, welcome to the site, always nice to see someone interested in climbing. I'm just going to hit the parts that looked like they didn't get answered. And remember, what works for one guy doesn't always work for another-we all have our own style and it just takes time to find what's comfortable for you.
The saddle slip, I usually set mine just above the belt on the pants, this seems to keep it above the hipbones and it gets cinched down pretty good, usually a notch tighter than it really needs to be. I do wear suspenders, but i also have a 395 hanging off my belt. Without the big saw, i have no problems carrying a normal saddle load without the suspenders. A gut will throw this off though.

Tonight i'm going to try a smaller one (24") and I read that an arms length is the proper distance to have your chest from the tree, is that about right??

This is another one that it depends on what works for you. (Don't let this get out:smile2 but i was taught as a free climber. My climbing style still shows it even with a lanyard. I climb chest about a handspan away from the tree, butt out, knees away from the tree, and with my hands on the sides of the tree or just breaking around the back curve, keeping a slack lanyard in one hand. Only on the trees big enough that i can't get my hands around the curve of the trunk do i lean back on the lanyard and flip climb-that's about the only time my chest would be at arms length from the trunk. My knees keep the spikes at the proper angle to prevent gaff outs and my hands are what is holding my upper body to the tree-this sounds tiring(another newbie mistake, climbing with your arms instead of your legs) but i'm fairly well balanced in this climbing position with my upper body leaning into the tree with my butt out, and my hands are really doing no more than catching myself from going too far back and carrying up the back side of my slack lanyard. This style is quick because there is no stopping and starting to position the lanyard. The downside, is if you gaff out, your forearms will take a beating, your lanyard will take a bit more slide before it catches, and your face will get dinged being closer to the trunk. Now the rest of this is probably just my own phobia, but i climb with the straight gaffs-you'll see when a guy is flip climbing, he'll usually straighten out his legs to move his lanyard up-that straightening out the legs will kick out a straight gaff for me every now and then, it's why i don't do it more than necessary and why i climb with splayed out knees.

I'm having a hard time getting up on the spikes and moving up, it killing my legs. My wife was watching me and said she thought I was taking to large a step. How far should i be stepping????? I'm 6'2" 225lbs. She said me being 51 might have something to do with it! I thought I was in good shape, but the spurs are teaching me otherwise..

This is one of the biggest things that newbies need to be taught-you don't have to get to the top of the tree in two steps. I'm actually several inches taller and fifty pounds heavier than you and make probably 8 inch steps up a tree. If you are lifting your leg high enough that your upper leg is parallel to the ground, that is way too big a step. My steps are pretty small, but again it goes back to my training-we were running up 50+ trees a day, and while i may take more smaller steps to get to the top, it's a lot easier on the knees. If you've got to "hoist" yourself to your next step, take smaller ones.

I'm not trying to harp on you or anything but if you are just climbing for recreation anyways you should look into buying ascenders instead of gaffs. You will probably save some money (good ascenders are cheaper than good climbing spikes) and have more fun. Plus you won't have to worry about damaging the tree.

Then stop harping on it-you got your point across the first time. Like it was said before, the trees he's climbing have bigger things to worry about than gaff marks. A topping at six inches is usually not conducive to long life. The guy is not hurting anything, why not help him out instead of trying to guilt trip him out of learning something. I wish more actual "arborists" were proficient on spikes.

 

[Workboot]

You can use a mechanical advantage system on rope that you can't just going up on spikesand like I said its more fun.

 

[cairologger]

Hey jake, welcome to the site, always nice to see someone interested in climbing. I'm just going to hit the parts that looked like they didn't get answered. And remember, what works for one guy doesn't always work for another-we all have our own style and it just takes time to find what's comfortable for you.
The saddle slip, I usually set mine just above the belt on the pants, this seems to keep it above the hipbones and it gets cinched down pretty good, usually a notch tighter than it really needs to be. I do wear suspenders, but i also have a 395 hanging off my belt. Without the big saw, i have no problems carrying a normal saddle load without the suspenders. A gut will throw this off though.



This is another one that it depends on what works for you. (Don't let this get out:smile2 but i was taught as a free climber. My climbing style still shows it even with a lanyard. I climb chest about a handspan away from the tree, butt out, knees away from the tree, and with my hands on the sides of the tree or just breaking around the back curve, keeping a slack lanyard in one hand. Only on the trees big enough that i can't get my hands around the curve of the trunk do i lean back on the lanyard and flip climb-that's about the only time my chest would be at arms length from the trunk. My knees keep the spikes at the proper angle to prevent gaff outs and my hands are what is holding my upper body to the tree-this sounds tiring(another newbie mistake, climbing with your arms instead of your legs) but i'm fairly well balanced in this climbing position with my upper body leaning into the tree with my butt out, and my hands are really doing no more than catching myself from going too far back and carrying up the back side of my slack lanyard. This style is quick because there is no stopping and starting to position the lanyard. The downside, is if you gaff out, your forearms will take a beating, your lanyard will take a bit more slide before it catches, and your face will get dinged being closer to the trunk. Now the rest of this is probably just my own phobia, but i climb with the straight gaffs-you'll see when a guy is flip climbing, he'll usually straighten out his legs to move his lanyard up-that straightening out the legs will kick out a straight gaff for me every now and then, it's why i don't do it more than necessary and why i climb with splayed out knees.




This is one of the biggest things that newbies need to be taught-you don't have to get to the top of the tree in two steps. I'm actually several inches taller and fifty pounds heavier than you and make probably 8 inch steps up a tree. If you are lifting your leg high enough that your upper leg is parallel to the ground, that is way too big a step. My steps are pretty small, but again it goes back to my training-we were running up 50+ trees a day, and while i may take more smaller steps to get to the top, it's a lot easier on the knees. If you've got to "hoist" yourself to your next step, take smaller ones.



Then stop harping on it-you got your point across the first time. Like it was said before, the trees he's climbing have bigger things to worry about than gaff marks. A topping at six inches is usually not conducive to long life. The guy is not hurting anything, why not help him out instead of trying to guilt trip him out of learning something. I wish more actual "arborists" were proficient on spikes.

Thanks for the reply, that's a lot of good info. My 1-5/8" spikes and weaver suspenders should be in tomorrow and i'm going to try your style and see how it works for me. I have bought the stuff to rope climb with but thought I should learn spikes first. I have a 150' arborplex rope, leather friction saver, several tenex prusiks,figure eight with ears, 6 carabiners, trow lines and bags, helment and gloves. I having been doing tree removals for years and logged with my brother inlaw 20 years ago, had to fell them all with chainsaw no machines for him, he logged plantations and they didn't like big equipment. I just want to learn climbing and have to start sometime.

Thanks, Jake

 

[cairologger]

Thanks for the reply, that's a lot of good info. My 1-5/8" spikes and weaver suspenders should be in tomorrow and i'm going to try your style and see how it works for me. I have bought the stuff to rope climb with but thought I should learn spikes first. I have a 150' arborplex rope, leather friction saver, several tenex prusiks,figure eight with ears, 6 carabiners, trow lines and bags, helment and gloves. I having been doing tree removals for years and logged with my brother inlaw 20 years ago, had to fell them all with chainsaw no machines for him, he logged plantations and they didn't like big equipment. I just want to learn climbing and have to start sometime.

Thanks, Jake

Good morning,
I tried your climbing method yesterday late, and even with the long spikes it was much easier. I would like some info on the flip line of choice, what do you use? I'm using one I made up myself, it's 1/2" 3 strand tree master, I know that 3 strand is supposed to be stiffer than braided rope but I think if I had a stiffer rope it would be easier to toss the line up. Why do arborist not use the lineman's leather straps? Is it the length thing? Seems they would be much easier to flip up.
Are pine trees harder to move the line up because of the rough bark, I haven't tried any thing but a pine so far. Are hardwoods easier to spur climb? I have got a protective cover on my flipline, it's a snug fitting kevlar sleeve ( we us it on race cars for wiring and plumbing protection) but it seems to grab the tree hard, it's always twisted on the rope after use. Do I need a covering? Is there a way of making my 3 strand stiffer or may be a 3/4" 3 strand would be better????????

Thanks for the help, i'm improving, Jake

 

[beowulf343]

Good morning,
I would like some info on the flip line of choice, what do you use? I'm using one I made up myself, it's 1/2" 3 strand tree master, I know that 3 strand is supposed to be stiffer than braided rope but I think if I had a stiffer rope it would be easier to toss the line up. Why do arborist not use the lineman's leather straps? Is it the length thing? Seems they would be much easier to flip up.
Are pine trees harder to move the line up because of the rough bark, I haven't tried any thing but a pine so far. Are hardwoods easier to spur climb? I have got a protective cover on my flipline, it's a snug fitting kevlar sleeve ( we us it on race cars for wiring and plumbing protection) but it seems to grab the tree hard, it's always twisted on the rope after use. Do I need a covering? Is there a way of making my 3 strand stiffer or may be a 3/4" 3 strand would be better????????

Personally, if i'm flip climbing, it's with a steel core. I use half inch XTC for my other lanyards. I hate to even say that cause it sounds like i'm telling you that you have to run out and buy another piece of gear. Smooth trees are easier to flip up, i can run up a beech, but will be cursing a shagbark hickory. Flipping a line is a technique that just has to be learned and practiced. My xtc can be used even on a decent sized stem, the wire just comes out because it's easier and i'm lazy. About the biggest thing i can tell you is flip the backside of your line up, don't slide it. I like the backside of my lanyard to actually lose contact with the tree (doesn't need to be by much) before it gets moved into the new position. You slide a lanyard up something like a silver maple and it will get slid up under the bark, and then you are yanking (at a bad angle to boot) to get that piece of bark yanked off. Flip the line out and up, it drops into position on top of the bark instead of sliding into position under the bark. Sounds more complex than it needs to be, but it's just a technique, you do it a few hundred thousand times and you won't even think about it. Good luck. Sorry i can't be of more help, it's something easier to show than to explain.

 

[TreeClimber57]

Poles and trees while of the same origin need different spikes. Pole spikes are short as they don't penetrate very far and for those thick barked pines the spikes you have should be fine. You can use pole spikes on some hard barked trees but in most cases trees require longer ones. So your experience on the pole is not unusual. You can climb a pole with longer spikes but not very well, and you can't really climb a soft bark tree with pole spikes. So you have to have the right tools for the job. If you want a pair of pole spikes for any reason, I have an extra pair (just the irons) that I would send to you for cheap.

Agreed.

Having said that.. with enough experience you can actually do either.. I have climbed many a pole with tree gaffs and many a tree with pole gaffs. (even some thick barked trees ..) You have to know what you are doing and the risks involved.. climbing the thick barked tree with pole gaffs being worst as you can get a lot of cutouts.

 

[lxt]

If all else fails?...............I would suggest a Steiner Lawn Mower! Yep, oh....& with a slip scoop too!


LXT............

 

[Scrat]

Welcome Jake- Slated for removel then Spur on brother!
Hey dont let anyone tell you pole gaffs are less damaging than tree gaffs either.....vinyl siding just never heals well