New spur climber

[Kottonwood]

I don't find spikeless climbing to be that much harder. With all the modern techniques and equipment we have now it is not even that much slower than spiking. Yes you need to use ascenders, footloops, etc but you can reach anywhere in a tree spikeless and if you think I can't make perfect pruning cuts without my spikes on you're kidding yourself. How often do you use your spikes when you're limb walking? That is where all the proper pruning cuts are made. I am light and yanking myself around a tree on a double rope is not that hard. I usually use two lines and tie in twice if I don't have a central leader. On really large spreading maples I might have a groundie set 3 or more single ropes in the tree so I can come down, srt up and prune down one lead at a time. There is always a way to do it spikeless and you would never get away using spikes here in CO. There are way to many good arborists. As far as it being slower... I would never even bid a prune job for the speed of using spikes, doing it spikeless is in the price.... and it wouldn't be that much (if any) more expensive anyways.

 

[cairologger]

Man what some info., y'all have done a little ( or a lot ) of all of it. I'm much more comfortable with the spikes now, i'm going to breakout the rope this week and start with the double rope method first and then the srt. I'm going to use a big oak in our fruit orchard and yes it will be low and slow. I have a 70' pine to remove for someone as soon as I feel comfortable with it. It's got to be climbed, can't just fell it. It's catfaced bad at about 20' up and is about a 26" diam. and a 15 degree lean. I thought I would put a line as high as I could ( not in the small of the top ) in the tree next to it (10' away) and let my buddy belay me from there (I have a fall arrest harness and the energy absorbing lanyard) with my climbing rope. My plan is to spike up to first limb (40') and trim and spike as I go up until I top it. My question is how to not be attached so secure to the tree being removed if it brakes at the catface that I won't go with it?????? I want to be hanging from the belay rope and let the tree go without me. Can you use a weak carabiner for your lanyard attachment and let it break away? There is also another tree on the other side about 15' away. I guess I could span the 2 and not have a lanyard attaching me to the tree.

Thanks, Jake

 

[troythetreeman]

You sound like a 'hack' to me!
Jeff

maybe, but ill put my safety record, my customer satisfaction rating and the health of the trees i trim (that people dont insist i butcher or top against advisement) against yours any day

 

[jefflovstrom]

Go for it. www.urbantreecare.com
Cert. WE-7624A
CTSP #519
Jeff :msp_tongue:

 

[troythetreeman]

ok jake, without seeing your tree i cant say anything concrete, but if you are tied to the adjacent tree and the first one falls youre going to swing into the tree youre tied to, if youre using some kind of break away youll likely be shot into the tree youre tied to and in not aware of any "break away" carabeaners
without seeing it i cant say for sure but if its standing its probably safe to climb, live pine trees catch a lot of wind, so if the wind hasnt done it in, youre not likely too, as you climb youll be limbing and removing weight likely more then half your own weight
as you limb it dont leave stubs, cut flush to the tree, stubs have the potential to create chaos
one or two at the top for a hand hold or lanyard stop arent a bad idea
the higher you go before you top it the better, the more weight you suddenly free up from the top of that tree the more violently the trunk is going to buck, and once youre down to the pole, if youre up high enough its going to be pretty wobbly, the limbs and top act as stabilizers
stay steady in the tree, keep your weight centered and use yourself to counter the wobble, this takes some practice
when youre climbing spend some time inspecting the weak area of concern
if you decide its unsafe to climb, dont climb it, tell the customer you think it needs a boom, possibly call in another more experienced climber for a second opinion
sounds like they know youre a beginner and are working with you, no doubt your personal safety is a great concern for them
youre plan to be shot or swung into an adjacent tree isnt something i would even consider
if you truely think the tree will break from your added weight, dont climb it
but again, if its still standing, youre probably safe
do you plan to just tip the top off or does it need to be roped? if youre roping it, without the proper equipment and someone who knows how to use it youre going to shock load it
this is going to send you for a ride, keep youre weight on your spikes, _know_ what youre going to do with youre saw and be ready to hang on, make sure youre secured in a way that if your spikes are kicked out you dont ride your lanyard down the trunk
this is also where the largest risk of the tree breaking is
if youre just tipping it off, depending on how much flex is between you and the ground, how much weight youre taking from the top and how cleanly your notch breaks free, youre still gunna be bucked up in that tree
just be sure youre ready and youre sure how and where the top will fall
thats about as good of advise i can give you

 

[cairologger]

Good morning,
I thought with the line set much higher than me the swing to the other tree would be a slow one. I guess 10' is still a long swing? On the carabiner I was thinking one of the non locking with a 75lbs rating. And would one of them work also as a chainsaw lanyard breakaway? I'm sure your right on the strength of the tree, it's weathered many storms and is still standing. I was planning on limbing it up (no roping them down needed) and then cutting the trunk down in short sections. What length do you think I would need to cut them in for it not to shake me around to bad?? Does cutting a larger angle face cut (90 degrees +) help with the push off effect when the hing breaks??

 

[Kottonwood]

Cairo,

Your idea of tying into another tree isn't all bad. No need for a belay guy though, just hook up your double rope and you're good. If you have a grigri or something a single rope is better because a groundman can lower you for a rescue and you can still self tend slack... but you are starting to get into some fairly advanced things here.... that's why it is good to have someone with experience on the job site. Remember this is not a safety your gonna want to use.... it'll still hurt but you probably won't die.

I personally would never even consider using a break away lanyard, the lanyards job is to hold you to the tree, a breakaway defeats that purpose. What if it snaps when you are making a cut? Then you go swinging into the other tree with a running chainsaw in your hand. As long as you are not planning on rigging off of it, the tree should be fine. A lot of times when I am about to swing a large limb I unclip my lanyard and hold it so if anything goes wrong I can drop it and swing out of the way. You most likely won't want to do this if you are rigged into another tree.

Take a small top, ten feet or less. This will limit the movement, also you should be able to push it over by hand instead of using wedges. For the logs on the way down take small manageable pieces that you can push over by hand or even snap cut towards the top. For bigger pieces at the bottom put a tag line on them. That is a lot of tree for your first time. take it slow. Do the most dangerous things when you are fresh, take breaks if you need to, that will help you from making any dumb decisions. Simply standing in spikes for that amount of time can take a toll on the average guy's decision making process.

It sounds like you are on the right track but work slow, it would benefit you a lot to have an experienced climber come out and give you some pointers on that tree. Or pay a sub to work the tree and learn from him. You might be able to find one in your area on this website. You really should watch some people climb and work before you do it yourself. Be safe, and if you don't feel comfortable it is probably for a good reason, so don't do it.

How much ground saw experience do you have? Cutting felling notches on the ground is one thing... doing it in the tree is a different story. If you can't cut a perfect felling notch on the ground every time you have no business trying it in a tree. If you cut all the way through your holding wood and that sucker goes the wrong way... you're gonna have a bad day.

And DON'T CUT YOUR LANYARD!

 

[troythetreeman]

Does cutting a larger angle face cut (90 degrees +) help with the push off effect when the hing breaks??

no, if anything itll make it worse as youre going to have a lot more weight pulling against the vertical

45 or so and just before your notch closes try to power through the remaining hinge so it just falls free and doesnt break
careful though, id much rather ride a bucking tree then cut myself with the saw
as was stated earlier, what youre talking about here is a lot of tree, tall bean poles are tricky
good luck man, ill check again in a couple weeks when i return from vacation

 

[cairologger]

Double rope and self belay sounds good to me. I have been cutting on the ground for 20 years intermitently. I have 9 saws and 2 pole saws, 4 are husqvarnas and one is a bow and one is a old homelite 66 gear reduction, and yep I still use them all. The bow sure is easy on the back! My favorite is a 365, I raised the compression, ported the cylinder, coated the piston skirt with dfl and the top with thermal barrier. advanced the timing and ported muffler and carb. 8 pin with 20" bar, it's my pick if I want to have some fun, am in a hurry or want to show off. And i know I shouldn't show off with a chainsaw, but it's so fun to run!

 

[jefflovstrom]

Pic's or you are not on vacation! You join and lecture and must be able to post pic's of vacation.
Until then, you are 'troythetreeboy!'.
You got 15 years and think you deserve a bag of chip's.
Hang in there, you do got attitude, not sure about the rest tho. :msp_unsure:
Jeff

 

[troythetreeman]

you get it down yet? how did it go?

 

[cairologger]

Good morning,

Nope, i,ve been so busy rotory mowing for people and cleaning up storm damage I had'nt had time to think. I have it planned for sat. after next. I'm going to have someone video it for me so y'all can point out my mistakes( if I make any). I've got a pine limb at my house about 30' up just hanging waiting to fall on someone, i'm going to try my double rope climbing skills this weekend and take it down.

Thanks, Jake

 

[cairologger]

Good morning,

I have been climbing some for practice lately and this is what I have found, The spurs push in to the upper part of my leg so hard that it's very ucomfortable after just a few minutes, I have climbrights with the t pads. Is there a better upper pad to use or do y'all have some cheap trick to evenly distribute the load? I have been climbing the rope srt and drt. I feel much more comfortable on the rope than the spikes. I'm using the 4 coil prusik for foot sling and center of saddle. I like the speed of the srt better but I went up about 20' to remove a dead limb in a pine and then tried to come down on the upper prussik and it had such a bite I had to put the foot loop back on and take the pressure off of it all the way down. It came to me after getting to the ground that the load was doubled on the srt compaired to the drt. I'm going to try the bachmann with carabiner on the drt and srt. I also have a rescue 8 I'm going to try on the srt. My prusik is a 10mm tenex and my rope is 1/2" arbor plex. Should I try a 1/2 3 srand nylon for my prusik or is the 10mm ok with a bachmann and biner? ( To prevent binding up ) I just don't as comfortable and safe on the spikes yet. I removed a dead pine ( no limbs ) 2 weeks ago and it had small utility buildings on 3 sides and neighbors property on the 4th side. The tree was in the middle of 2 live pines with about 15' per side, the neighbor was nice enough to let me trow it on his place. What I would have loved to do would have been set a line high up in the side trees and climb out to the dead one and take it down from the top. But I don't have a clue how to do that safely.

 

[troythetreeman]

adjust your spikes, they adjust 1/8 inch intervals for a reason, if they arent set right theyre gunna hurt, im not sure if you need to go up or down but thats likely your problem, i like mine high just below the knee, i can climb all day and my legs dont get sore
as for your rope question, i dont have a knowledgeable answer, i just tie my climbing line to my D rings with a knot and leave a long enough tail to tie my tautline, which would work the same for your prusk

 

[RacerX]

Good morning,
I thought with the line set much higher than me the swing to the other tree would be a slow one. I guess 10' is still a long swing? On the carabiner I was thinking one of the non locking with a 75lbs rating. And would one of them work also as a chainsaw lanyard breakaway?

I've heard of guys using breakaway chainsaw lanyards just for this purpose. I believe that they break at about 200#'s so you could still use one as a climbing lanyard just don't lean back too much. :msp_rolleyes:

 

[cairologger]

you get it down yet? how did it go?

I had a friend look at it with me ( he worked for the electric company for 10 years on the tree crew ) and he thought for my first tree a leaner over power lines and by the road was a bad choice. So I set a 1" rope up in it and blocked it to the base of another tree and we hooked the rope to the front tow hook of his dually. He could see me and the tree good as he was backing up. He put a good load on the tree and I cut a 90 degree face cut and cut almost all the hinge out on the road side and it laid right down in the ditch and road side. Worked beautifully.

 

[troythetreeman]

always easier when you can cut them at the bottom

 

[rhube961@gmail.]

i just started but my set up is a split tail blakes hitch on my main line

then clmibing, just spikes and the landyard until i can set my top rope with splittail and blakes hitch

climbing the line usually jus the hip thrust or lineover foot step up.

like i said i am new to climbing...but a big tree that will old you is more confidenece booster than a small tree that blows in the wind.

-Ryan

 

[Greener]

Good afernoon all,

I've been buying climbing gear for 6 mouths or so and tried my first tree yesterday and had a few problems I thought I would run by y'all. The tree was a pine 36" diam. , the first thing was my prusik on my flip line was to long and was right at the trunk, I had made it up myself and had some shorter ones with me( I made them with 3/8 yellow 7000 lbs cord. I made it into a loop joined with double fisherman knots) I installed a shorter one with a 6 coil prusik on the treemaster 3 strand flip line and I used a girth hitch at the carabiner. Is this prusik set up ok?????? The first problem when I got in the tree was my saddle felt like it wanted to to keep sliding down on me (is suspenders the answer to this?), my saddle is a Weaver extra wide back double d ring 6 lbs plus my other junk, second problem was my prusik would tighten up so tight on the flip line that I would have to take all the weight off of it and work it some to loosen it up before I could adjust the line. Is 4 coils rather than 6 the answer for this or a diffrent friction hitch? I'm 6'2" and 225# I did'nt thing I was puttting that much pressure on the hitch.

Thanks, Jake

Jake. I may have missed something, but with the prusik issue on your flip line issue, you might consider investing in a rope grab device instead of the prusik method. It is simpler to work with and won't bind on the flip line. If you are primarily a spike climber, I think this is your best bet. Even with the rope grab, though, you will have to reach over with the opposite hand to grab the flip line and to take pressure off the rope grab before you adjust it with the other hand. It takes some practice, but it is easier than with a prusik adjuster method.

 

[FanOFatherNash]

Really? :msp_w00t:
Jeff

I have personally seen most climbers climb , its true what he says